Lossie saved, Leuchars to the Army
 

According to the Guardian, at least: Defence officials decide fate of two Scottish bases | UK news | guardian.co.uk

MOD Spokesmans brief...

'DENY EVERYTHING BALDRICK!'

Best they both stay open or I see Mr cameron having a VERY rough ride in the future.

But nothing would surprise me, the military get stuffed over whilst the other Government Departments have little of the cutback actions actually enforced.

I hope Leuchars doesn't go. A fantastic posting.

So where will be the 'Crash Div' for Lossie? Wick? Turnhouse? Inverness International? Dyce?

Best they keep one Voyager on immediate readiness at Lossie - it will be needed sooner or later.

Too many eggs in one basket, methinks.

glad rag,


Who is going to give Cameron a hard time over Leuchars if it is handed over to the Army, and just how would they do it?

As to "the military get stuffed over whilst the other Government Departments have little of the cutback actions actually enforced"

What planet do you live on? Most Govt departments, local councils and public sector bodies are taking between 28 and 40% cuts, with some having as much as 50% budget reductions. Defence took a 7.5% hit.

Get real.

Yes, that Mr Cameron had better be careful or else the Tory vote in Scotland might collapse...

This is difficult to say but....

In this instance, the chap two posts up is correct. And the military have just been given some of the budget cuts back.

Don't overplay your hand.

Probably more personnel to be at an army camp? Me-thinks that there will be some extra free stewarding at the British Open in a couple of years time...

Next question. Does an army camp generate more into the local economy than an RAF camp - bearing in mind the reduced number of Squadrons that will be there? If the army generate more income then Govt (and locals) will be most happy.

@ pr00ne & TOFO
 

Sorry to burst your tory fan-boy bubble but..


BBC News - Plans to outsource public services 'scaled back'

I was an Ops O on nights when aircrew still did Ops. Even 15 years ago we had to scratch around for night divs. Unless booked before the blue moon set Marham would close when their sqns stopped flying which was often 1700. Lakenheath would close at 2100. Invariably we would finish up with East Midlands or on occasion Manchester.

Only one military airfield in the north of Scotland would be no different, except it would need the civil airfield during the day too. Paying for occasional civilian use would be less expensive than keeping a second airfield open as a contingency.

Squaddies in St Andrews! That should stir things up a bit!

Re a Diversion, don't forget Prestwick. It seems to get overlooked by all bar the Canucks! Canadian CF-188's used it on their way to the Med a few weeks back. It's still open late most nights thanks to Ryanair though that could change now that Mr O'Leary has a foot in at Turnhouse.:uhoh:

Div'd into Prestwick a few times now, excellent service and very welcoming handling agents. Keep a weather eye open for Grey US C130s and other 'Biz jet' type ac staging through there, nothing to do with rendition whatsoever......

:ok:

glad rag,


"Tory fan boy bubble! Me? Oh the irony...

A political about face by Cameron, one of many, because of a political backlash on public sector outsourcing has nothing to do with departmental budgets being slashed by 28% to 50%, councils facing cuts of in excess of £100m and organisations like the Ambulance service facing £500m cuts and losing hundreds of front line staff. It has no impact whatsoever on the fact that defence, by comparison, got off extremely lightly with a 7.5% cut in it's planned budget and no reduction in UOR or operational funding from the reserve.

Tory boy.............. snigger.

Right pr00ne one last time, slowly.

The cuts you have referred to above were meant to be sustained by transference of work, departments, and jobs to the private sector.
"On 20 February this year, David Cameron wrote in the Daily Telegraph that the government would create a new presumption that all "public services should be open to a range of providers competing to offer a better service" - the only exceptions being national security and the judiciary.

This was meant to reduce overall government budgets AND add a kickstart effect to the economy.

These cuts have now been reduced or eliminated across whitehall apart from the MOD who is still going ahead and scrapping ships, aircraft, squadrons, bases.

OK :ok:

This is yet another report based on a snippet of information by The Scotsman, its then been picked up by the Guardian. All since denied by the M.O.D. I'm not saying its all hogwash, but the Scotsman is invariably having its reports that Leuchars will close denied by official sources.

Personally, I go with the idea that a much larger number of Infantry personnel suddenly descending on St. Andrews would be like a Hells Angel Gang turning up and setting up Headquarters in Tunbridge Wells. If its true the whole idea will prove a fool hardy one regarding the impact on the local area, thinking particularly of St. Andrews!:(

FB:)

IF (such a big word .....) Fort George is to shut I wonder if the incumbants will be moved to Kinloss? Moray Barracks, anyone? Now, that would keep the real estate in MOD hands - Kinloss used as a day div/excercise site, with ATC/Fire/etc detached daily from Lossie? Shut up Baldrick?

Surely Rupert/Peregrine play golf,don`t they ?...sorry. they do it on horseback!

GF, in the short term. It would not be long before the runway needed refurbishing and someone would have done trackies on it.

glad rag,


Oh, I see! So there are NO measures in place to reduce the deficit then? You'd better nip out onto the streets and tell those folk who keep protesting about Govt cuts that there aren't any and that it's only poor old defence that is cutting back.

I work in the very heart of the Westminster 'village,' working with and sometimes for large spending Gov't departments and, at the opposite end of the scale with folk seeking legal aid. BOTH of those massively different areas are being hit hard, VERY hard. On top of that my partner is a Council chief exec and they are REALLY feeling the ill wind of reduced budgets.

Nice to know that you think it's all smoke and mirrors then. £95b of cuts and 600 to 900,000 jobs.

Poor defence...

Rumour around KSS is that 32 (Engineer) Regiment are to due to relocate here.

Makes sense. Plenty of room to go digging things up with their combat JCB's, big sheds to store them in. But please lads, stay off the runway (FFS pleeeez don't do a Catterick:eek:) - we'll need it one day! You can dig up the northern woods, the bomb dump and the bondu out to the beach till the cows come home but that big black thing in the middle of the park ......
And if they need to move the big kit about they only have to get them to the rail frieght yards Inverness where Eddie Stobert has built a new container depot.

That would mean DHFCS, MFC, the ARRC, MRT and 663VGS might not have to move.

@ pr00ne
 

"whatever" :ok:

PS I really, really, hope that neither you nor your "partner" have to undergo the sheer brutality of discovering the harsh reality of the very system you serve, but, from your description, you both have a substantial silk purse to sustain you....

Oooh, "partner" in inverted commas. Pray tell, why? Watch stuck in the 20th Century glad rag?

Hoping that MFC can stay, possibly using Northside and the 'parallel', not sure what plans for MRT. If Lossie is staying but filling up with Typhoon (+F35 eventually?) along with retained GR4s, maybe 202 will need to move to create space? ARCC is definitely planning on relocating doon sooth (Swanick), just don't know when. As for DHFCS and 663VGS, not sure. No reason why 663 can't co-locate with MFC, bit more problematic for DHFCS as their assets tend to be somewhat fixed!

prOOne

Your argument is specious, and lacks factual perception. Yes, those Gov Depts which you refer to are taking huge hits - rightly so. But how many, if any, are subject to the swingeing, instant, irreversible and far-reaching effects that have been imposed on our Defence capability. At least there is an ongoing debate over NHS, Police, Education etc, but not so with Defence: 'cuts' happened almost overnight. Sometimes I cannot reconcile your past life with your present?

SFO - didn't realise that the ARRC was going to Swanners but I can see the sense in that too. Would be an idea if 202 moved over too, maybe the big sheds northside? MFC and the gliders could go back to the VASS hanger and the old VASS complex be reconstituted as a combined Ops.

Given the building restrictions at Lossie, if 202 did go to EGQK then Lossie could 'bank' their hanger against future building works. They flattened one last year. Oh dear, this is sounding far too sensible .....

Confirmation of all this will be the starting of the new tower complex at Lossie ( - that'll mean the place is doomed for sure!:})

pr00ne

Sorry to join in the attack on you, clearly thoughtful though your arguments are, but please bear in mind that the Armed Forces have been ripped apart in order to help increase expenditure on all these public services over the last nearly 20 years. Arguably the greatest cuts to the military's, in particular the R.A.F's, front line services took place in 1998, 2004 and now. Not forgetting all the piecemeal snipping here and there in between. Could it not be objected that before SDSR came along, the M.O.D. had given up their fare share of assets, real estate and people and really should have been ring fenced? Especially, given the fact that much, much more has been called upon them since the end of the Cold War, to participate in colonial style expeditionary warfare in addition to National Defence and Security requirements?:ouch:

FB:)

Northern Divs
 

......landing at Aberdeen Dyce yesterday, it appeared that an runway extension to the north was in progress. An extra 3000 feet to the existing LDA would help make it suitable as a fast jet div if Lossie does end up as the sole base north of the border. Anybody know if / how much / when Aberdeen is getting longer?

WHY MARHAM MEANS THE WORLD TO US - Fresh speculation, but no decision yet on Marham

According to the M.O.D. the matter is still not decided.:hmm:

FB:)

Absolute Disgrace!!!! Leuchars has just had it's runways re-laid at I presume a substantial cost, busiest air defence base in Scotland.

Where would the Typhoons go if Leuchars closes? Leeming maybe? Leeming has ample space at the moment.

Pardon? 14 Sqn's hanger and Sqn offices are now vacant and there are lots of HAS's too.

They widened every single taxiway at Kinloss too but it didn't stop 'em closing it ...

I suppose if your the only air defence base in Scotland, your the busiest.

They want to keep the bases open just in case SNP gets uppity and votes for Independence.

Could get really interesting then :E

@grabbers
 

Who gives a flying "FCUK" what ones partner does?

I don't, BUT I didn't start the precocious reference. :ok:

What's precocious about using the word "partner"?

O/T
 

Ask pr00ne, it's him putting that particular reference about and you are diverting away.

Army and RAF in row over future of air bases

The Scotsman rag again.