Not a lot has changed since Kipling's day.

You mean like Doncaster and Rotherham. In fact in the former probably since Roman times.

Finningley Boy - Where were you based in the UK and were so embarrassed by your Army colleagues?

My greater experience of the Army was in Germany and Belize, and no I wasn't embarrassed by them personally. Indeed, the ones from the Royal Signals and R.A.O.C. for the most part, whom I worked with and lived alongside down at Birkenfeld in Germany were a fantastic bunch. I was at one point thinking of transferring over. But when out in Belize and in Wes Berlin, as I've pointed out earlier, the behaviour of the Infantry, shall we say, and for the reasons given, young lads embued with a tribal mentality, may well make a noticeable difference to the atmosphere in certain parts of the country, you've read the story about the Black Watch. That said, they had a particular reputation, even among Scottish Regiments.

I used to get plenty of stories from the army chums at Birkenfeld, who like us from the R.A.F. regarded Birkenfeld as a holiday away from it all. We were all under the U.K. Support Unit at Ramstein AB, billeted at Neubrucke and later at Birkenfeld and the actual place of work was the Comcen and various EACs and Ops Cells at the NATO Central Region Static War Headquarters. It was without a shadow of a doubt, the best tour I ever had and none the less so for the Army being there. But I learnt something from them and at first hand about the line units shall we say. Not that it worried me in particular but regarding Leuchars, to be perfectly honest, there probably are only subjective arguments for it remaining an R.A.F. Station. That said the arguments for moving everything up to Lossiemouth and moving the Army in there are not built around any clear military thinking, or I imagine this would have been part and parcel of the SDSR or arranged many years ago. The question about moving the R.A.F. from Leuchars surfaced only last October, and then only because of the reaction of the Lossiemouth community that they could experience a double economic blow from the additional closure of Lossiemouth as well as Kinloss. If the Army are moving back from Germany in the future, then what is the argument against them moving into Lossiemouth and Kinloss, considering the greater availability of infrastructure and being on the doorstep of a more realistic training ground. Also, the economic argument is solved. But now the problem has grown tentacles and people have gotten tunnel visioned thinking that the R.A.F. must remain at Lossiemouth at all costs, hence Leuchars is unnecessarily dragged into the debate.:suspect:

FB:)

Thanks Finningly Boy, very understandable that the RAF wouldn't want to lose Leuchars. If the Army have to move north what would be so wrong with them going to either Lossie or Kinloss, I agree, but as for working out the logic, that, as our American friends would say, is way above my pay grade!

Our family regiment is the Black Watch! The bit in blue under my ID is their motto from the cap badge! They can be a bit high spirited at times;)

A "hanger" is for clothes, a "hangar" is for aeroplanes.

I was hoping we would pull out of Scotland completely. It's miles away and the Scots hate us. So why do we stay?

As a Jockshireman who lives in Ingurland all I can say is three cheers for the act of Union!:ok:

FB:)

Torygraph: Defence shake-up means our smallest Army since the Boer War

The reorganisation will see the Army shrink to its smallest size since the Boer War, while Britain’s reserve forces will benefit from a £1.5 billion investment programme........

In a separate development it is understood that RAF Leuchars is to close, leaving only one RAF airbase in Scotland. The site will become an Army barracks.

The Sunday Telegraph understands that the Ministry of Defence has secured extra funding from the Treasury in the next spending round, after 2013, of £1.5 billion to pay for the overhaul of the reserve forces as well as more funding for the equipment programme. The extra cash will pay for 14 Chinooks, which are due to come into service after 2014, three new Rivet surveillance aircraft and upgrades to the Army fleet of ageing Warrior armoured vehicles.........

The closure of RAF Leuchars will leave Scotland with just one functioning RAF base at Lossiemouth, currently home to a Tornado GR4 Squadron. The new barracks at the Leuchars site will house thousands of soldiers due to be withdrawn from Germany in the next few years. The decision to transfer the two typhoon squadrons currently based at Leuchars to RAF Lossiemouth was only finalised last Friday, although rumours of the move had been circulating for months.

It will also be announced that RAF Marham in Norfolk — another Tornado base — will remain open, primarily because it is the only Tornado servicing facility.

Ah well, there goes the neighbourhood.....:{

Quote:
RAF Leuchars is to close....................The site will become an Army barracks.

A good friend of mine, who is a lawyer specialising in court martial work, is based in Tayside and gets a fair number of "clients" from the RAF at Leuchars. The prospect of the army taking over has him rubbing his hands with glee.

"£1.5 billion to pay for the overhaul of the reserve forces as well as more funding for the equipment programme. The extra cash will pay for 14 Chinooks, which are due to come into service after 2014, three new Rivet surveillance aircraft and upgrades to the Army fleet of ageing Warrior armoured vehicles"

Must be a car boot sale somewhere, that is a lot of kit for that money.

A simple question; can anyone explain why we are buying aircraft to survey Rivets?:ugh:

Because you can survey them quicker (and therefore more of them in the same time) than if you had to walk :ok:

So are we getting cuts post-2015 or increases? Mike Smith in the Sunday Times today says Osborne has refused to a 2% increase in resources after 2015. But then he goes on to say that the Cabinet has said we can have a 2% increase in the equipment budget but not in anything else. As ever my brain is clearly not large enough to comprehend how you can increase the number of platforms you buy but not the air and ground crew you need to fly them.

E P-T,

I think that the answer is that the equipment programme is so far short of balance that a 2% increase can be absorbed easily [and will still fail to provide the] kit for a smaller force.

S41

The answer could also be in the Torygraph article through the proposed use of cheaper reserve forces to do some of the other "stuff" that our manpower do. Thus you will now have the manpower to do the core air power business of flying aircraft.

iRaven

Sadly George hasn't comprehended it either! I suppose a pay rise will be out of the question?

Leuchars loses fight to be RAF's home in Scotland - Scotsman.com Heritage & Culture

Surely all the GR4s can not be squeezed into Marham, even if 1/2 the force is away on ops?

Will some stay at Lossie or will more GR4 Sqns get the chop?

TR

I know which I would guess at post 'Stan & Libya :*