Decompression....
 

The Army has decreed it necessary that ALL personnel coming back from Afgan are to complete decompression at RAF Akrotiri.

I completely agree that formed units who have been under severe stress for months on patrols, watching comrades die, operating in FOBs and seeing the full horrors of Afgan first hand need to do it.

However, this one seems an "army catchall' and personnel living in relative comfort at Kandahar/Kabul etc, doing office jobs or not on the front line will find themselves often as individuals caught up in a lot of 'venting' at the decompression.

This will also be another two days travel time, add stress and inconvenience to an awful journey home from theatre which already takes 2-3 days.

Yet another thing that we have to put up with just to try and do a job we are ordered to in Afgan.

:ugh:

Their is a difference between front line and rear ech troops, however everyone will need to do some sort of "de-stress" before returning home wether you spent all day in camp its still has some effect. Duty of Care?

There is a huge difference between front line and support branches. From my 8 years of doing Ops in Iraq and afgan, i've never decompressed and haven't had any problems in not doing so.

I've been lucky and not seen the full horrors of this war; I live in relative comfort, eat reasonably well and maintain good contact with friends and family back home. I am not stressed at all, and apart from the normal minor gripes, am fairly content on Ops.

There are many procedures in place that already cover 'duty of care' and decompression for non front line isn't the way forward.

From the reports of what happens on decompression, I am fearing that I will need decompressing after decompression!!!!!

This is old news...

Not to everyone.

Off Hot
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Probationary PPRuNer

Join Date: Apr 2011
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Joined this weekend and this is your first post? Whether it is old news to you is fairly irrelevant, it may not be to others and it has certainly changed since I was made to decompress as it was just formed units then. If it now really means all troops, then this is army beurocracy gone mad. It was a total waste of time and effort when my formed unit did it.

Seems the army top brass have lost any vestige of common sense. :ugh:

How do you differentiate. What about the techies cleaning up the gore after an IRT shout, or the fireman dealing with the severely injured and bodies at HLS Nigtingale? it would be too hard to police. Its not that bad when do it, and the staff try to make it as comfortable as possible. Accommodations okay and the food is quite good.

Presumeably this has more to do with heading off future litigation than applying common sense.

@Timex. It's fair to say the pool of those needing it is broader than just formed units, but the thought of everyone having to do it is laughable. The most stressful thing about KAIA is the speed limit, closely followed by the pizza queue and the $/Euro exchange rate applied in the PX.:rolleyes:

Its annoying but I can see the logic behind it - I recall finding it pretty weird going from BAS to Brize in the space of 9 hours and then straight on leave. A short stop would have helped me get my head reacclimatised and helped me 'reset' ahead of getting back.

But that said, when I came back from HERRICK I felt glad I wasnt jumping off at AKT, and glad to be heading home.

I don't think we'll ever get the balance quite right.

When I have a 'Gozomee head' on, all I wish to do is get on a jet at BAS and get into a car (ideally driven by DCoS) at BZN and go home. There is enough support from friends, family, curry house and pub to complete a full reset. I appreciate though that not everybody has that luxury and the differences exist between service, task completed, and age of individual.

That said; it should be a single service procedure rather then an ARMY Rule OK mandate. The Army already bully certain members of the RAF by mandating that they can complete RAF PDT but must also complete Army PDT (OpTag) in addition, prior to deployment. Somebody in the RAF Chain of Command needs to put the senior members of the Army fraternity back in their box, especially in regard to joint units.

Youngsters on tour have their needs, which can be quite different from mature members of the armed forces. This is like the walking-out rules in NI being written for the benefit of three pissed paras in a Ford Fiesta.

Having had one of "my" guys commit suicide, partly because of what he saw on Telic, partly because of the crap state of affairs for NFU guys and for a whole heap of other stuff, then anything that the system can do to help NFU guys gets my vote. And that's exactly what I told the SI!

That's tragic, and systems should be in place whereby individuals who have experienced traumatic events can be identified and treated accordingly. But the army way is a catchall covering only their own regimental systems that bears no relevance to 000's of others who don't come anywhere near to the stresses of those walking the streets etc.

Surely we ought to be able to trust our officer and NCO cadre to identify anyone who may need help, with the assistance of trained medical staff.

Personally, I think I'd be under more stress cooped up at Akronelli on the way home wondering whether the creaking old antique allocated to the AKT-BZN sector would get me back within at least a day or two of the planned arrival date.....:hmm:

and it seems to me that most people who slag decompression in Akrotiri have never actually had any experience of it.

Fair enough to bitch and moan if having done it you found it irrelevant or lacking, but if not, there is little evidence to back up an opinion of it?

Bit like some jet jock moaning to me about having to go to the Falklands. "Oh, how many dets have you done?" I asked, "Oh none" he said, "but I bet it's rubbish!" was the reply. Which it probably was for him becaus he'd made his mind up he was going to have a sh*t time. Personally, I found the mixture of history, wildlife, flying, gym, social and other stuff which can't be mentioned here all rather appealing.:ok: Never got on with the spicy though, try as I did...

When we did decompression on return from herrick 13, even though wed only been rocketed a few times and not gone through anything the front line guys do it was a good way to chill out, have a laugh with your mates over a few beers without thinking about whats going on around you. The staff there are excellent in helping you have a good time and the CSE shows are excellent!

Overall i spent 2 nights there and would definetly give it a 9 almost 10 out of 10!

But for others doing 2 months on, 1-2 off, its just another day away from the family...

I think most people have a point on here, with various experiences both on Det and also of RSOI. But my original post was to show that there is little flexibility and greater responsibility should rest with Sqn/Regt bosses to decide whether guys need it.

I am out here 3-4 times a year for 6-8 weeks. With the catchall of RSOI ( which sadly has little relevance to the job I do) and now the decompression, they add at least another week to a relatively short det. All in all, it means another 4 weeks away a year, carrying out catchall, arse covering policies when in my very humble opinion, I don't need to do.

Before I get shouted at; I do at least 7 days pre det training, which covers all the good stuff of weapons/mines/100m shoot etc. But on top, we now have to do the RSOI which is aimed at a more 'fresh' recruit. We were told how to open bottles of water, how to set up PT in Fobs, how to wipe our backsides - the list goes on!! All of which had no relevance to my job, or life in Kandahar/Kabul on a main base.

When I return from det, I have a debrief with my Flt Cdr, there is Trim, and we have immense support in Kandahar should we witness anything, feel pressure, have concerns.

This isn't just what some RAF guys think. Having spoken with an Army Colonel, he was also extremely skeptical of the decom; he witnessed many things on his last one, which I wont list on here, but were horrific in nature. On paper, decom is a great idea, BUT for the guys that need it.

All in all, I just think that a greater flexibility would be better suited to both RSOI and Decom to meet the needs of individual units, than a catchall and arse covering exercise, which could be sorted out at unit level.

:ok:

This is just as emotive.

"Why me boss?" etc

I had the chance of returning a couple of days early from a 6-month det - no leave, no phones. My boss wanted to hang on to me until my time was up but I managed to escape.

I would not have been a happy bunny if I had had to stop off enroute for a day or so. As it happens it would probably have been better for me had I stopped off and managed to slow down from the work tempo before I got home.

Same with Miss PN. She was on motor mouth for a few days and a couple of days enforced rest may well have helped her too.

3 Bladed Beast - having doen some time at KAF, there are lawful ways and means of avoiding RSOI - a sensible chat with OC RSOI (or whtever the post has morphed into) should see sense prevail...mind you, you are dealing with the Army.

My thoughts exactly.

As a Pilot who also has a similar det rotation cycle to you, it seems that having to do RSOI/Decompression etc only serves to increase our time away, and put more strain on families, and our Squadron's (planning etc). IMHO, whilst doing RSOI/Decompression, we are not doing anything "productive". If you add up all this time wasted doing RSOI/Decompression, it runs into a good few weeks per person per year. Thats a lot of "wasted" time.

I'm sure RSOI and decompression are useful to some. But not to somebody doing my particular job. RSOI is irrelevant to me. As for decompression, Life at KAF is relatively pleasant, and feel the resources would be best used elsewhere.

Just a thought.... I can do a 2 month det and have to do decompression. A young (brave!) squaddie can do 2 months, getting shot at, having a few mates blown up, generally being very stressed, then goes on R&R after 2 months and doesn't have to do Decompression..........

Is it an Army or MOD driven directive?

I agree that unnessecary time away from home is a bad thing but do we have the capacity to decide on individual cases (of units or people) as to whether or not decomp is needed? Do we have the knowledge to see what is going on in someones head who may not know themselves or may be doing a good job of hiding something? If we do can the airbridge manage so much flexibility, is it managing now?
I think on balance it's needed in enough cases to make it worthwhile and prob the best system we'll get.
Regarding RSOI, if you go on a 6/9/12 month tour you only do it once, so if you're cycling through theatre on regular shorter dets you should be able to organise something quite easily. I think already if you've done it inside 6 months you don't need it again.

Jocky, I think you'd do well to think a little before posting, Off Hot may have only just posted but could have been reading the forum for a long time, maybe he/she just got a new username? With few exceptions no-ones views are worth more than anyone elses!

From a chat with a colonel a couple of years ago I would guess Army. The submarine service has long done this and the Army copied them. Having learnt the lesson they are probably keen to avoid moral problems with light blue 'skivving' off home early.

Decompression
 

As I understand it, decompression is considered an absolute necessity for

all before returning back to UK.

Why isn't it compulsory before returning on the mid tour break? Surely the

risks are just the same.


Just a thought.

I like the way someone who joined the Army wants a more individualistic approach to his treatment.

Seriously - I doubt there are the resources to deal with this in any other way. We certainly don't have the med staff across the Forces to give a more individual service. KISS as the vast majority are doing 6 monthers and better to put people through it than risk non-qualified people making decisions on individuals that might not be right. Rather inconvenience a few and catch all than let them go by and miss potential problems.

In general terms I agree with you, Mr C, but there really does need to be some sort of dispensation from all this for guys that are out there 2 or 3 times a year, every year - a whole month per year on "non-core" business is a significant waste of money.

The chances of KAF-based personnel getting out of RSOI are now zero, as a 3-day RSOI is conducted at Bastion as part of the deployment process. Since the only useful bit of RSOI at KAF used to be the famil with the IDF alarms and the common rocket attack directions, getting a Bastion-specific RSOI appears a complete waste of time, as well as being 3 times longer than it was only a few weeks ago. Was the 'old' KAF RSOI really that unsafe?

The Bastion RSOI includes a full-kit 2.5 mile march to the range for weapon zeroing. Those who deploy without a personal weapon, such as FJ aircrew, have to sit and watch everyone else shoot before marching back again. The time could be much better spent getting ROE updates, reviewing theatre flying orders, etc... but no, sit in the sand for 6 hours doing bugger-all. Unbelievable.

I am convinced that a Sqn boss ( they do operate out here, so have a good feel for it, along with Execs) is ably placed to say that his Sqn members do not need to do decom.

I can only talk for the way we operate out here, and given the frequency of dets ( 4 a year) this COULD be looked at. Adding at least a week ( RSOI and decom) every time you are in theatre is simply crazy.

In simple terms, it means an extra 4 weeks a year is spent carrying out 'coverall' policy. Add at least a weeks annual deployment training, various SERE lectures, weapon zeroing, live shoots and you are easily up at 6 weeks. Whilst 6 weeks may not sound alot, multiply that by numbers of personnel on the Sqn and suddenly, you have an extremely inefficient system happening.

The knock on effects are people back home having to work harder and cover these extended periods away. You then have to consider family life and in general, just a quality of life. I know i'm in the forces, but we are now looking at 6-7 months away a year AT LEAST.

This comes at a time of cuts, pay freezes, worries over pensions etc etc. As said, RSOI and decom have merits, but I truly believe this could be looked at in more detail and it is a question I am asking of CAM already.

Unless your Sqn Boss is a "Doc" I'd be very surprised if the powers that be would allow that, or that he/she would even want that responsibility..

Of course, back in the days of a Royal Air Force, rather than a North-West Frontier Support Force, 'decompression' merely meant yet another Ruddles and vindaloo session in Stamford, followed by 25-45K in 3 sec the following day at AMTC North Luffenham...:suspect:

Remind me once again, WTF are the UK's armed forces actually there for in Afghanistan? Brave deeds aside, what exactly is the 'end game'?

I think the 2 issues of RSOI and Decomp are distinct. Decomp is one thing. Teaching SO3's how to wipe their arse and open bottles of water, instead of spending quality time with family, is a bit of a joke and shows some pretty poor decision making.

The cynic in me thinks that this is smoke & mirrors for airlink accountability rather then sincere concern for all and sundry. Which could be why it is not applicable to R&R journeys; for IIRC, they have a higher priority then tourex travel. If this is so, I would prefer it for the system to be up front and admit that the airlink is threaders.

I realise that pongo officers such as Wodney and Woopert are as thick as pig$hit, but does everyone really need such instruction? Although, of course, cavalwy officers doubtless have a 'man' who does such things for them, don't you know....:ooh:

Would the alternative be that they might need 'open at other end' stickers on water bottles? And as for the other 'training objective'....:eek:

DR, that did occur to me. A device to match troops out to airlift home.

What happens if 300 troops fly into AKR but the next jet only has capacity for 299?

One might argue that the issues of decompression are different for a short R&R visit versus a longer-term return to "normal" domestic life - I am sure that there are stats somewhere that will have been considered. One thing for sure though: if decompression were deemed necessary before R&R visits then I think that we can all guess the only possible outcome :uhoh:.

You lot really look for a Mover's conspiracy where ever you can don't you?

Decompression makes sense for the vast majority of the poor b'stards who are out there, forward, doing the business. I have sympathy with those who are on regular short tours and don't perceive a need for their own decompression and they may well be right. This board is populated by the minority of the 9500 blokes out there and the system will always cover the majority. Can you imagine the press coverage if some rotary mate who was exempt decompression lost the plot and did something bad? As I said, I have sympathy for those on the regular returns but using the current system means that 'the costs fall where they lie' ie the sqns bear the brunt of the wasted man days. Anything else would incur a cost somewhere else and that isn't going to happen.
Everyone I have spoken to who did a hard tour saw the value in decompression.

Mr C! I really don't see anything that is looking for a Mover's conspiracy. The movers working out in Kaf, Bastion and Kabul are a good lot, working hard, with limited numbers!!

I really can't comment for other fleets or trades, but i KNOW that the job I ( we) do has yet to cause any adverse reaction, and that's a good 8-9 years worth of Dets.

I can tell you that stress does comes from getting into and out of theatre for all the reasons we are well aware of. Now we have the addition of decom ( and RSOI) which for us is completely unnecessary. As said, I will be following this up to see if Centre of Aviation Medicine has had an input or even consulted.

Once again, I can only speak for my fleet and the experiences that we have had. And thus, I do believe that our Sqn bosses are more than capable of making an educated and balanced decision on whether we need to do this or not, concurrent with aviation medical advice. We always have a Flt Cdr auth in theatre, Execs and the bosses are out here regularly and these guys are able to make an informed decision.


The greater impact for me is yet another few days away from my children, friends and family.

Although the RSOI package is far from ideal for some with a 'one size fits all' policy, don't forget some of the reason for it is so that those that 'don't' get a feeling and empathy for the experience likely to be faced of those that 'do' (that is not meant in any way derogatory to either group).

Anyway, back to decompression......

I hadn't considered this. With all the stressful things I did during my service I'd best find a shrink............................................

I have to say, being serious, this should be for operational commanders to decide if his or her staff need decompresison on the way home. Or am I missing something?

The few hours between getting off a C17 and getting onto a B757 caused me more stress than an entire Op Tour! I learnt all about sh*t locations previously never heard of before, and to add insult to injury, it p*ssed down.
Decomp:
Never in the field of human conflict have so many been so depressed for the benefit of so few.
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.co...1-300/068b.jpg
Now we are talking!!!!! :ok:

Note: Total respect to the civvy hosties on the 757 who let everbody sleep wherever they wanted to whilst they tip toed around them. Probably totally illegal but very pragmatic and well appreciated.