BA Managed path
 

Just heard that this is opening up again, does anyone have a link to the new GAI 1028 AL4? Is it ture that those on a PVR are not eligible?

Its not opening up it has opened up. See here

BA Recruitment

Regards

AL1 is on the RAF website and that doesn't specify any restriction on those departing on PVR terms. I'd be interested to see the latest AL though and if a PVR limitation has been introduced. As I'm on PAS it's the only way out for me but I don't want to cock up my BA app but not checking all the info thoroughly....
:ok:

No Problem Answering This One !
 

Good luck to those applying. At least you won't have any trouble answering this question on the application !

"Give an example of when you have been involved in a major change in the work environment. How did you adapt to this and what did you learn?"

SS and JP,

Pvr does exclude you from Managed Path. Unless you've PVRd before 22 Mar 11.

BA won't process your app if you aren't fully qualified to take use of the MP scheme.

Which is bad news for all those spec aircrew(PA or FTC(A)) or any RN pilot on a full term commission - that's a lot, who don't have any exit points. The ONLY way to leave from an FTC is by PVR prior to age 50.

That'll be all the RN Harrier pilots screwed again then. Better be a good redundancy announcement on Monday.

I wonder if BA realise the number of people this no pvr rule will exclude?

Hooray for having over 2000 hours, boo for non of them being as a pilot :P

Might I suggest that anyone considering joining BA talks to someone who has recently joined. I feel sure it is not the inspiring workplace it used to be! You only have to view the cabin crew forum to get some idea of what an unhappy workplace it can be!

And thats before you consider longhaul flying up to 900 hours a year to age 60 and beyond!

Just a word of caution to all those who view BA as the be all and end all.:ok:

Its not just RN pilots getting screwed, as a number of RAF pilots would also like to apply but can't because they would have to PVR.

Maybe so, newt, but the RAF is certainly a ghost of it's former self and "not the inspiring workplace it used to be" either. Having done a full PC in the RAF, and now in BA, I know where I'd rather be right now.

Yes, the cabin crew have been a problem, but the pilots don't allow that to make their lives unhappy. The legacy cabin crew have had a showdown coming for a long time, it's arrived, and now they are paying for it. C'est la vie! The newly recruited cabin crew are an altogether different bunch. :ok:

I suspect not, but I bet the Strategic Manning office do!

But don’t despair; a lot of other airlines are about ready to open their doors to experienced pilots.

Their Q1 is going to be quite difficult to answer....

Presumably the act of applying means that you're not committed to your current service employer?!

Do you know it is not inspiring or are you guessing? I joined before the recruitment freeze and can honestly say that in the years I've been gone, I have not had one pang to return to the RAF or to try any other airline. I have the best T's and C's in the country and fly to all the best destinations.

Times certainly change and BA might not be what it used to be 15 years ago, but it's a damn sight better than anything else out there (and sadly, that includes the RAF).

I'm glad to hear you are enjoying it bowly.

I did 15 years with BA after the RAF and did not find it such a rewarding experience! I must add that aviation as a whole is not what it used to be, whatever job you are in. Its a fact of life I'm afraid.:ok:

Newt,

Fair enough. I'm surprised that you didn't enjoy it though? I agree that aviation is not what it used to be but if you're in aviation at the moment, BA is a better place than any other. As for the Cabin Crew.........don't start ;)

AL4 of the GAI is subtely different!
 

Stoppers,

Now that I have seen AL4 of the GAI, it has some sutble gotcha's that might prevent post 16/38pt PA types from using the managed path. I don't see how they are going to police this though, are BA going to verify each applicant with Manning? Rather than offer selection / employment to the highly qualified, experienced and motivated individual?

To be fair the airlines offer reasonably good pay and conditions but the job can become boring very quickly. That is an informed opinion from the friends I have in BA, Virgin, Easy and BMI. The only reason I would consider leaving military aviation is to take a break from the constant deployment to the desert. The flying that we do can be a lot more interesting than crossing the atlantic 3-4 times a month with an over unionized crew of militants.;)

Interesting to see that redundancy make you eligible for the scheme. Will there be some pilot's included in the next tranche?

"Those pilots who make early departures introduce manning difficulties and generate additional costs in training replacements." IMO that sentence is a poor choice of words, not very motivating for the troops.

JliderPilot

Frankly it's whatever floats your boat/different strokes for different folks...or don't knock it until you've personally tried both "schools".

I can guarantee you that flying a Canarsie approach into JFK, in a heavy, on a ****te night, or any approach into MEX on a good day can be a lot more interesting than some of the stuff I did on the F-4.

As for the cabin crew, they may be over unionised but as individuals some of them are very good company both on and off the aeroplane :ok:.

Another BA convert I'm afraid. Less interesting flying? Absolutely, though every day is still different and at least I'm flying, not sitting behind a desk in High Wycombe, MOD, Kandahar, MPA or wherever. The plus side is that my kids know when I'm going to be at home (volcanoes/snow storms excepted) but if I choose not to be at home they are paying me overtime at about £200 a day (BA, not the kids) and they get a really comfy seat to go on holiday in (subject to availability of course).

Unlike the C17/TriStar fleets flying the same route to the sandpit, day in, day out, then having to go cap in hand to DTMA for a route trainer just to keep guys proficient in operating into somewhere other than BZZ/KAF/AKT.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Couldn't find the GAI on the intranet...where is it?

How do I sign up for RAFCARs?

If you need the GAI PM me your email. I have it on good authority that if you PVR and try and apply to BA through this scheme, BA contact manning to confirm eligibility and terminate your application. Good Luck

JP,

Thats correct. They will check with manning and throw out your application if you don't qualify.

Think I need to speak someone at BA on this one... Does rather disadvantage those of us on PAS but I guess it's their trainset :8
I know the 744 fleet need X number of pilots by the end of the year and that they are struggling to find TR'd folk - Managed Path isn't going to supply lots of people straight away so hopefully BA recruiting will open their doors a little wider....

Stoppers,

check your PMs

Farfrom, Check yours.

And signing that PAS paperwork seemed such a good idea at the time!! :ugh:

Does anybody know if the 12 year option point counts as a recognised leaving point and makes you eligible for managed path, or is it an early termination point?

Thanks

Any chance someone could PM me the bits of GAI 1028 that are appropriate to eligibility to BA's Managed Path? Thanks.

Inside Out, check PMs

Al-Berr,

12 Year point is recognised as an Early Termination point and isn't compatible with Managed Path.

Thanks, thought as much.:( Come on Virgin app!!

Guys if I may comment as someone outside looking in who was inside looking out.
This is a fantastically rare scheme that really does only come up once in a blue moon.
BA are desperate for bodies right now.Dont accept that the door is shut for you due to the wording of the scheme.
Bug your deskie, go above his head, personally ring someone in BA HR or management and get answers from the horses mouth.
There will be so few of you eligible that BA will easily have the resources to hand sift your application and progress it.
Civvy world in many ways is not as rigid in its procedures as the Mil and if a dozen or so slightly iffy apps find their way to the right person in BA and you can start work 3 weeks on Tuesday you'll all be a shoe in.
Think about it.There may not be another of these opportunities for non qualified DEP for another 15 years.
Dont let the REMF's grind you down on this:O
PRESS!!

C.A. Great point you just made. I was successful at the last BA recruitment drive but as we all know the pool was drained and no jobs were created. I cannot see BA turning down good candidates that are ready and willing to start. The only thing being that they did not exit on the RAF's (restrictive) terms. Manning need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Now how to go about getting your application in? Any ideas anyone? If you use the managed path route through the BA site, it might well kick you out as you have to agree that you are eligible.

C.A, I believe that deskies have been bugged and arguments been had with manning. They are not budging, but BA are only recruiting TR DEPs AT THE MOMENT. I would be very surprised if, due to their requirement to find 200 pilots/year, the TR requirement was not lifted in the next few months. This would open up the door for PVRs. :eek:

JP and Redcarpet.

Sounds a bit of a "soundbite" policy by the MOD then if the entry criteria is so narrow.

BA seems to have had one round of recruitment for TR'ed people and didn't get enough quality applicants.They'll probably have to go round that buoy again and that will probably mean they'll have to look at managed path again.

I suspect if enough people press their noses to the window and make enough noise BA will see sense and widen the entry criteria.

If you've not passed with BA its a minimum of one year before reapplying.
So guys in this current recruitment phase who failed cant reapply till the new year at least.

This gives BA and MOD about 8-12 months to come up with another cunning plan!

Best of luck to all.

Catch 22
 

Well here's the rub ...
If you applied and got through to the managed path to the hold pool you HAD to leave the service to be eligible for any offer.

If no offer came and say the Hold Pool was disbanded due to the economic climate then you are ineligible for the current campaign as you are no longer serving.

BUT if you signed on to PAS, anticipating the worst, you would need to PVR to get out and also be ineligible for the current scheme
:ugh:

Does that make it the "mis-managed path"?

I thought the idea of Managed Path was that it was aimed at those who were leaving at their 16/38 point. You were leaving the RAF anyway (eg. no PAS offer) so MP either got you a job (happy days) or it didn't (ho hum). Either way you had to leave the RAF as they no longer had a job for you there.... There is no Catch 22 about it - if you're staying in you take the PAS offer. If you're leaving you take MP and hope that a) oil doesn't rocket $200 a barrel or b) the BA cabin crew don't bring the company down in the meantime.... :hmm:

Offer
 

Sorry to correct

There was an offer from manning of PA as my trade was and still is in shortfall of experienced instructors.

I contacted them to see of there was a way of remaining in services and helping fill a manning void whilst the economic circumstances improved.

The answer was no you can only stay until 55 or nothing else, no matter what the benefit to the service

So the catch 22 is there:stay and help the service out but you but have to render yourself ineligible for a scheme that you have successfully pased.

Manning are never going to offer an extension of service at the 16/38 point. They'd rather you took PAS which is win-win for them - they keep an instructor whilst at the same time making it harder for you to get out.

The way the RAF see it is they offered you PAS, you said "no thanks, I'm off ha ha!", economic climate changes, hold-pool closes down, you see empty bank account looming so duck back into the RAF to accept the PAS offer at the final bell. The terms of PAS are crystal clear - serve to 55 or PVR to get out. There is no Catch 22. The RAF can't just sign pilots on for random lengths of time just to tide said pilot over until the airlines pick up - that's of no use to them at all. That you already passed selection into BA is equally irrelevant. If after 12 months in the pool you have no course date, you have to redo selection, regardless of where you've been or who you are.

I took PAS because I thought I'd happily serve until 55+ in a job I enjoyed. Things change, job suddenly becomes dire, rubber dickings get handed out, other options get investigated. I now have to PVR to get out, as per my terms of service - I have no issue with that. Ultimately Manning are going to do everything they can to protect their "investments". If they want to keep fabulously experienced, wise and able PAS instructors like me then they are going to do whatever they can to stop me going (NB. "stop me going" as opposed to "keep me in" - a subtle yet traditionally RAF-esque difference). They aren't going to sanction an airline selection procedure that makes it easy to swerve my "contractual commitment" to age 55 - and who can blame them?

Agree
 

Valid points. but I think we will see this from different views. Enjoy PAS especially if they do change the terms of the pension in 2015!