:) Been PAS for 5 years - I'll be gone before the pension changes!
:ok:

Yep the TOS are always going to favour the RAF and not the individual, however once you press that PVR button - Oh the relief!

You are just a number. The process will move on and someone else will just fill the $hitty jobs you've been dicked with. PVR is your choice, they will then release you when their rules allow and in the interests of the RAF, naturally!

Experience, wise and able mean jack in the big scheme; they are just reasons why any reasonable mate feels the RAF will be mad not to encourage him to stay. Someone else though will fill your shoes, and when you carry out the PVR, you will feel numb at the lack of interest in you.

The best part though is you've probably got a great alternative career to move on to, especially in the current climate.

Exodus anyone?

I'm certainly under no illusions :) I've always said that one can compare leaving the RAF to taking one's hand out of a bath full of water. There will be no hole left, the level will go down imperceptibly and, once the one or two brief ripples have settled, no one will really notice you've gone. Obviously, you're just left with a slightly damp hand but I'm not quite sure where the analogy goes with that bit though..... :ok:

I guess it depends on what temperature the bathwater was?

If the bathwater was cold, then your hand slowly warms up and drys, and you eventually feel better than you did with your hand in a bath of cold water.


If the bathwater was warm/hot, then your hand also slowly drys, but may feel, at least at first, colder than it was before, a change you initially regret. However, even that feeling will rapidly fade into simple normality....


...and if the bathwater was scalding hot, the simple act of removal itself is a blessed relief!

Please could somebody send me a copy of the GAI as well?

Cheers.

Ditto, could do with the GAI or a tip on where to find it on the intranet. Are GAIs RAF-specific or Tri-Service?

Sorry to hear that you're pulling the black-and-yellow, Stoppers. But there comes a time when all the duck-nibbling and bull$hit trips the high level switch, I guess...:uhoh:

If the RAF cannot retain people of your calibre and skill, god help them for the future.....:eek:

From someone who PVR'd many many years ago, the only Managed Path outside is that of supply and demand. Civil airlines, including BA, are all hostage to that simple equation and no amount of policy, published procedures, or understandings with "Manning" will overcome that fact of life. As others have said, if you've decided that the Service is no longer the future for you then you have made your choice. Have the courage of your conviction and PVR if that is the only way out.
BA is not the by all and end all anyway. In my day it was just another form of government work but not any more though, and it is fast becoming just another "independent airline" with a future as unknown and risky as any. I had a rewarding and fulfilling career with other carriers, until BA gobbled us up. Having seen them from inside and out, I preferred the latter scenario but that is a personal choice as will yours be. Whatever it is, good luck!

Please could some one PM me the GAI and/or where to find it as I have no cinjection to DII on my current post and get no access to these documents. I'm particularly interested in the eligibility criteria.

Thanks

Grateful for a PM of the GAI if anyone is kind enough to do so.

OK, I give up. I've spent half an hour trying to find the GAI (*any* GAI for that matter) on the retarded cash cow that is DII. Fail. Steers please.

Ta,

F

Maybe finding the GAI is the first test...........

GAI 1028
 

Would someone be kind enough to also PM me the relevant bits of the GAI for the managed path?

I don't have access to them where I am! Thanks in anticipation.

I found it the other day on DII. Started by clicking on "e-library" on the right side of the DII home page. Then clicked on "people," and then from the next page, "publications" on the left (still with me?).

In the related links box on the right of the next page was one for "RAF Publications." Followed that, and on the next page, you can look through the badly-formatted, non-alphabetical "links" section to find RAF GAIs....

The headlines are you must be aged 32 or over and on a PC to register for the scheme (GAI still talks about RAFCARS rather than Managed Path specifically). It implied in a flow chart that you won't have your name put forward to "participating airlines" by manning unless you have an ET exit date agreed, or you're within 1 year of a retirement date.

If anyone's interested in more specifics drop me a PM; it's marked "official-manning," and I don't understand the new classification scheme enough to know whether or not I can post it here....! :bored:

There was a DIN released today on this.

... which adds a bit more meat to the stuff from the GAI I posted above.

You have to be on a PC, and be within 2 years of a "recognised exit point." If you're not, you can still apply as long as you applied for ET before 5 Sep 14. You also have to have 1500hrs on service aircraft. Tick those boxes and you can apply via managed path as opposed to DEP.

Looks like they actually do engage a fair bit on your behalf and smooth the transition from RAF to BA though.

Good luck to anyone who qualifies...! :ok:

Not the GAI but some info here;

British Airways Direct Entry Pilot Scheme open until 23 September | Pilot Career News

GAI Update
 

Some good info on here guys and girls thanks...

...but the reason that I requested a copy of the full GAI as a PM is that I do not have DII(F)/DII(S)/JPA/DIN access in my current role.

The partial copy of the GAI that I did manage to get a hold of makes no mention of being within 2 years of exit (ie in the flowchart). All it states is over 32 and on a PC with an agreed exit date.

Does anyone have the full GAI to hand that would be kind enough to PM over here so I can clrify a few points? :ok:

Thanks for any info.

GAI 1028 AL6 does not mention Managed Path, it is purely RAFCARS. To qualify for RAFCARS you must be older than 32 and have a recognised exit date. Apply via the attached annex to manning.

2014DIN01-180 was released on 5 Sep and details the BA Managed Path Scheme. Here, you must be within 2 years of a recognised exit point and have 1500 hours on any service aircraft. Once you leave (not at point of applying) you must have a class 1 medical, at least EASA fATPL and an MCC. You can either apply to the scheme via the attached annex to manning or to BA directly during a recruitment period (like now!).

Hope that helps - I'm unable to upload any of the documents.

Managed Path
 

Hi all, the Managed Path is open now. Not sure if it was closed since September 2014 but the requirements are as per the last post I'm pretty sure.

Does anyone know for sure that FO at Heathrow for several years is the only option for successful applicants? Could they potentially offer a northern base?

Thanks

Ray

Ray, methinks that you need to do a bit of research about the company before you apply. BA have not had any out stations for 15-20 years. So, it will be LHR and probably short haul.

YS

Heathrow is the Northern base!

Northern base. Lol.

Most of the recruiting is onto the minibus at LHR however many of the military guys I know who have got in the recent rounds have gone to the 747 and 787. Do your research folks 👍🏻

SS,

Were those recent ex-Mil who went 747/787 Fast Jet or ME guys and girls?

My understanding is FJ tend to go A320 for "around 5 years" before the offer of LH is made. Clearly there are exceptions.

Most recent joiner was ex-FJ and is starting his line training on the A320 about now. Most ex-FJ seem to go to the Airbus for probably at least 6 years as it currently stands.

They were all truckies who, I guess, qualify for ZFT. Base training on a 747 is a bit pricey and with enough ZFT qualified people around BA can get them online without having to circuit bash in a 747.

A good mate of mine who joined twelve years ago has been hoping since for a Northern base...which is now less even likely than ever!

Recruitment onto the 74/78 has been more due to a f**k up in the numbers and to make the training system cope better rather than any logical reason!! As most of the flight managers sorting it out are ex RAF, you won't be surprised to learn it all trundles along in the same disjointed way...... ;)

There are no bases other than LHR and LGW and under the current regime, probably won't be any others (except perhaps a Madrid low cost base - cynic? Moi?).

Guys/Girls(?)


...wot Thunderbird/Yellow Sun et. al. have said...everything .... including the comment about northern bases, you will be working out of LHR/LGW.

As an ex FJ BA DEP from a long long time ago may I offer the following observations in the interests of "managing expectations"...:ouch::

Your previous experience may determine the initial type you are offered when you join , usually due to ZFT requirements.

From that point on forget being "offered" anything, as in: "you've been in 5 years, we've looked at your records, you've an excellent background and training record, several Spec Recs.:rolleyes: .would you like to go to Long Haul"? ....BA doesn't work like that, it works something like this (apologies for teaching sucking eggs, etc, if it applies):


Fundamentally once you are "in" your FJ/Helicopter/Multi background will almost certainly mean f. all...you're now just a number on the master seniority list.

You can plan on being frozen on type for the first 5 years, unless the company needs to move you to a fleet of their choice. After freeze expiry you get an annual bid, where you have the opportunity to submit a bid for a seat/type change. The number of seats available to bid for is a function of the company's requirements for the forthcoming year. Most importantly, the bid is almost always based on seniority, which is determined solely by date of joining, though there have been exceptions, e.g. to the A380 where until recently previous Airbus experience was required.

Please, please, don't join BA on the A320 in the expectation that in five years time you will automatically be "offered" a slot on a long haul type...you'll be in the bidding queue for long haul seats behind the DEPs and the bright young early twenties FPPs who are joining today.


As a FWIW and IMHO, my idiot's guide to the fleets just in case you do get a choice on joining:
Join on the 787 and the world is your lobster (if you want longhaul).
777 best fleet of the lot IMHO but AFAIK not on offer...
Join on the 747 and you'll possibly be able to engineer being long haul for a long time/forever - as long as there isn't a sudden run down of the fleet.
Join on the 767 and who knows where you'll be in 5 years (shrinking fleet).
Join on the A320 and you'll be based LHR/LGW and probably be on shorthaul for X years, where X >=5 ( and to be honest could be >>>>5)

Hope that helps and good luck.

Wiggy,

Are you suggesting there is potential for ex-mil rotary types to be recruited onto the BA Managed Path Scheme?

That would be pretty good news for some I know...

Yes rotary can do managed path

That's good to hear,

Excuse my lack of knowledge on this but would it be something that is tailored to the individual almost? For example, an ex-multi guy will require far less retraining than an ex rotary/FJ jockey.

You might think that, but no. The training is the same, as are the line training sectors. Traditionally the rotary find it no more difficult. As an aside, I found the Airbus easier to fly if you thought of the side stick as a Cyclic. It needs the same techniques as a helicopter rather than fixed wing to fly it smoothly.

p.s. Obviously the "rotary" chap will by the point he starts training with BA have his CPL (A) IR so will technically not be just rotary anymore.

Thats three months terminal leave taken up then!

The website doesn't list the prerequisites and quals for the managed path, could you shed any light on these? (Granted CPL(A) IR is reqd)

Hi CE

I'm not BA but another company that have recruited lots of ex mil and there's an aspect that I don't believe that anyone has mentioned and that is the concept of Zero Flight Time (ZFT) training. To qualify for ZFT one needs a number of hours on a "heavy"jet. I can't remember the exact number maybe 1000 hours on a jet say 25 tonnes. This allows the trainee to then be trained on a ZFT compatible sim which means that the "circuit bashing" is done on the sim and not the a/c which saves thousands.

I fly with a lot of ex mil who either flew multis so had the heavy time or had a period perhaps flying short haul so they qualified for ZFT. The point I'm making is that the actual course is probably the same whether you are ex Typhoon, Wokka or C17. The benefit to the airline is that the ZFT allows the trainee to bypass the base training in the real aircraft. If you join BA I imagine the course you undertake will be the same except you will need to go off and fly an hour(ish) of circuits to have the type put on your licence. I'm sure you're realising now in the civvy world it's all about money! Hope that helps and good luck.

Regards

BBK

BBK,

Hi there and thanks for the heads up, I wasn't aware of the ZFT concept. Being a twin engined wokka man, I wonder if I'd fit into that bracket?

I shall pose the question to the BA stand at the Leeds Armouries today!

CE

Yep BBK's pretty much got it in one. Last time I looked the generic BA requirement to qualify for ZFT training was something like 2000+ hours total, with 1000+ on a transport category jet of >= 25 tonnes or, subject to head office approval, 1000 hours on a multi-crew turbo prop of =>50 tonnes.

May have changed of course so worth asking the question.

The Aircrew Regulation requirement for ZFTT is as follows:

It is possible that airlines may impose further restrictions on their ZFTT applicants.

You're absolutely correct Beags, the BA requirement's I mentioned are additional to those specified in FCL.730.A

Thanks for the info guys.

Are there any age limits on applying for BA Managed Path? (If I was to push out my 22yrs, I'd be 43 on leaving the service).

I hear it's limited to 55?

CE