Quarter of RAF trainee pilots to be sacked
 

No mention of the 40 odd WSO students that have already been f****d over by the air force.

...and waiting for the training squadrons, training pilots and maintenance crews to be reduced next.

Then comes the OEMs and Manufacturers, their contracts and company reductions too...

All the best for the near future
Rigga

How can the leaking of this information be justified before our personnel have been informed. This is disgraceful, whether correct or not.

Whoever leaked it should be punished blah blah blah....... never going to happen is it? What a way to treat people.

Sad and wrong as this is, if there are not going to be enough aircraft for them to fly, they have to go.

Even one more training sortie for someone who isn't going to become operational is a waste.

These are the hard facts that are going to hit some of the brightest and finest young men and women the UK has produced early next week.

Pity them, and pity the poor Air Staff who have to make these decisions; what a situation to have to try and manage!

I have my fingers crossed for them all, especially my son, who is so close behind them.

Stupid, stupid Politicians.

Investing in People....?

:*

Whilst individuals may not know whether they specifically are to be chopped, I don't think it's fair to say it was leaked before anyone knows: all the trainees had briefings last week to the best of my knowledge.

Heartbreaking as it is, continuing to train a large number of aircrew who have no seats to go to doesn't work out. Given that 5000 have to go, would you rather it were those already qualified, productive and who've had (potentially) even more invested in them?

I don't think anyone's contract is finalised until completion of phase 2 training, though what the implications are of moving the goal posts part way through the training cycle I haven't a clue.

None of this was ever going to be terribly pleasant.

I think the officer to whom 'Newt' refers is the AOC 22 (Training) Group and hence responsible for all RAF training.

Although I don't know him, I doubt that he will take any satisfaction with the situation being forced on the RAF and other services and I further doubt that the rest of the hierachy are jumping with joy either.

May I suggest a little less air officer bashing - unless evidence justifies same!

Old Duffer ( in full brown nose mode!!)

ATD,

Investors in People, that's so out of date ...


From the IiP page on the intranet.,

"In June 2010, 2nd PUS wrote out to TLBs explaining that due to financial and resource constraints all IiP activity should cease. This means that after February 2011, MOD will no longer be IiP accredited and the IiP logo should not be used on anything connected with MOD. ":sad:

Bad times.
 

Often lurk, don't often post but feel the need to this time. For any aircrew that do get the bad news, I wish you the very best of luck in forging a new career outside of the RAF. These are grim times for us all, but maybe more so for the people who have trained hard for years and the finishing line is so close, but yet is being snatched away. I know that we haven't the aircraft blah blah but it doesn't make it any easier for them. Best wishes.

St Valentine's day massacre
 

My sympathies to all those who, through absolutely no fault or failure on their part, have found themselves in this appalling situation.

The RAF has been reduced to its current state through years of government incompetence; Bliar's wars and desperation to cling to Dubya's coat tails were inadequately funded and the situation worsened under Incapability Brown. Billions have been wasted through incompetent procurement decisions; the present government has to balance the books as best it can, but the enormity of SDSR and the crass decisions of recent months concerning Harrier, Nimrod and manning cuts are probably the last few straws for the backs of many camels.

Good luck to all those who will be disappointed today by this truly awful St. Valentine's Day Massacre; I hope that there will be some government funded scheme to ease your transition into another career.

Right.......so, Airborne Aircrew, if the AOC sits down with each man for say, 15 mins, that will take him 100 hours, or over a fortnight to repeat the SAME thing to everyone. The whole point is that this is not a case of individuals being chosen. In exactly the same way as the Harrier fleet or the Nimrod fleet are being shafted, so are those in training.

As has already been pointed out, this is the RAF responding to the inevitable consequence of losing cockpits. How can the Service keep the same inflow when the flying opportunities simply aren't there?

I've met AOC 22 Gp and I can guarantee that he won't be happy about what's happening either. But unless you've got a spare £10Bn or so to donate, AA, then what alternative is there?

Old Duffer has it right - there are too many on this website who happily (and unjustifiably) slag off individuals by name while hiding behind anonymity.

Sad news, but everyone is suffering.
This government is doing too much, too soon to sort out the Country's issues.

Before we let this thread descend into the same old petty personal arguments and snappy b!tching, I'd just like to offer my condolences to the young guys and girls who are receiving bad news today.

I'll look forward to seeing a reduction to 22 Gp senior staffing to reflect the massive reduction in training.................... :rolleyes:

Best of luck to those who do get the bad news today. I know it will be a life's dream taken away, but its not the end.

What a pity that these guys / girls have to pay for other peoples incompetence.

Dont envy the AOC either IF its true he has a child in the system: Young Green gets the chop = very difficult Snuday lunch. Young Green does not get the chop = wild calls of nepotisim / jobs for the boys etc :uhoh:

What a Goat.

With regards to Capt Pugwash and IiP, why is the logo and accreditation spiel being used on AVM Green's 22Gp webpage?

Royal Air Force No 22 (Training) Group - Homepage

Who is in charge of these things?

Grabbers

*checks calendar*

Still February 2011 here.

Nah mate - we all knew something was coming but this is the first of any details we've heard. We had no briefings last week, they were postponed until this week at the earliest.

All of us who pursued this dream will understand the heartbreak this will cause.

I read in the media that these trainees are to be ditched forthwith. Whilst I understand and grudgingly accept the rational for the cuts, when I read that students a mere few hours from getting their wings are to have their training terminated I was stunned. Is that true? Surely the least compensation they should be offered is the chance of completing their courses? No doubt some clever-dick will know the administrative expedient which makes that impractical, not that I'm interested in hearing it.

Capt P...yes, I am out of date. Not only in IiP; I come from an era where we looked after our people. Whilst I am not laying blame at anyone's door, I feel desperately sorry for all those about to have hopes dashed and hope it is done sympathetically

Capt P/Mr C

Oops, well spotted. Just as well it's not me in charge of these things.
*finds hole, crawls into it*

Not much use in completing a flying course so that you can sew wings to a non-existent uniform when you are redundant, I suppose. I used to know a bloke who did RAF flying training in North America - he nearly got his wings - and then the war ended and that was that. Hard to argue against not spending more money than required. Very rough for those involved, though.:sad:

Grabbers, the short answer is money. The guy with the knowhow to run the website will not have editorial authority (except where they blame him).

Grabbers - it's probably because the guy/gal who is the website manager has already been fired.

Agree with OD; I doubt this is a good day to be the AVM. While I'm happy to go airship bashing when necessary I expect this headline follows numerous briefings and hope many of the individuals know their fate. Either way, unless its done clumsily, it's Nu Labour who deserve the venom today.

Separately I'm pleased to see the IiP drivel get binned.

For those that get chopped...there is another hope. Likely as not, there will be an increased demand for commercial pilots in the near future. The lifestyle is great, you do get to fly for a living and the pay's good enough that you can fly aeros, formation etc in your spare time (and there's more of that). May not be what you want to hear right now but as a TRI/TRE for a major airline and a display aerobatic and formation pilot (with my specs on, hence no RAF) I can honestly say that it's not a bad life...

Good luck wherever it takes you

As sad as it may be for those concerned, the circumstances are doing them a favor so they can move on and get qualified to do something else that will provide a sustainable career. Aviation as a career has had its day. Pay and conditions are getting worse and worse. Military flying probably still has its rewards but airline flying is now a joke both in terms of money and lifestyle.

Hopefully the RAF will allow these guys to stay in the service if they want to and be retrained in another field such as medicine, law, engineering etc

My sympathies as well to all the young people who are about to have their dreams shattered. Only those of us who have been through flying training can possibly understand what this will be like. BUT getting out of the RAF now, especially if there is money involved, may not be a bad result, The next five years (or more) look pretty miserable for those who stay in. Either way, the best of luck to you all.

Lousy day in the RAF
 

Just want to echo the sentiments expressed above - desperately sorry for those who will be affected by this cull. I really hope that the transition to a new career will actually be thought through and supported for you. The Royal Air Force's sad loss will be (as quickly as possible I hope) the gain of other more deserving employers.

On a personal note (and NO i am not a fan of top-heavy command structures) the AOC discussed above has always struck me as a top bloke and good officer, including when he was my Stn Cdr. I suspect he is having a truly lousy day at work too.

PPF :ugh:

Mark Green is a top bloke (if not too good with BBQs!!!!) I am sure he is as unhappy as anyone.

I too feel for all those who's dreams have been shattered.

What awful news, my heart goes out to those affected. My girlfriend lives in the sticks near Shrewsbury and we have the good fortune to see the helicopters from RAF Shawbury going past at low level on a regular basis, its terrible to think that some of those poor souls are not going to be allowed to complete their training. Someone needs their neck wringing for leaking this to the press before those concerned were told.

In general: ouch.

One query though. I can understand needing less fast jet people - but I thought the RAF was shortly to get a load more transport aircraft and helicopters. Why cut people destined for that work too?

How are overall numbers possibly falling this fast. The defence review cut things by 8% and yet trainee aircrew are cut by 25%?

What hell going on?

P

Would it not be better to let these people complete their training, get their wings and then transfer them to the reserve? This way they could move into civvy street and be the first to be offered their jobs back if times improve or if hostilities break out, the RAF would still have some return for their investment.

Letting them go as they are means that they will be neither fish nor fowl and may not have sufficient hours to qualify as having completed a course of military flying training towards the issue of a CPL.

Makes me realise how lucky I was in 1964.

We must think first of the young people who are "so near yet so far" - an awful reminder that they chose a career where choice for them is limited and choice for the system is all.

I can still remember waking up the day after my AFTS FHT knowing that I was going to get to a Sqn or (at least!) a real OCU. Already had wings (got 'em at end of proper BFTS in them days) but still very much on Velcro.

Waking up that day with those thoughts has to be (sorry girls :E) one of the best waking ups I've experienced.....

Quite simply, if you've never been there (or close) you just won't get it .... and can't come close to understanding what these poor kids are going through......

(And Mark Green IIRC was a Harrier mate, so I'm sure he's well happy with SDSR - NOT!)

Cabs or no cabs...I still find it hard to fully comprehend that the MOD's intention is to reduce the overall personnel numbers down to a total of 33,000. On average, more fans currently turn up to watch West Ham play at home than there will be manning the entire RAF by 2015...go figure?

One would hope that air tanker can perhaps absorb some of these people?

Seems wasteful to be axing at one end and recruiting at the other..

You would hope so, but I suspect Air Tanker will offer just above minimum wage to those already qualified and in receipt of a pension.

If that plan falls flat [as it will if the airlines do recover] then perhaps they can use some of the current unfortunate generation on a more sensible renumeration basis.

teeteringhead: True words my friend.

It would be interesting to hear that all four hundred had tendered their resignations rather than be subjected to this upcoming beauty contest, but assuming that a hundred will be made redundant, I suggest that they take heart in the forecasts for 400,000+ pilots being needed world wide over the next twenty years.

Organise yourselves into a facebook group or similar then organise the rest of your training to gain an ATPL (hopefully paid for by redundancy pay?).Sharing the costs for simulators etc can really help.

...and just think: Leaving now before the next exodus could well have you tucked in with yards of Seniority with an airline.

Who knows? You may even do the interviews on the ones that were retained when they are put out to grass!

The first airline that I worked for was once described as "like a fighter squadron...with girls!" ...so you really do have a future to look forward to.

From the bottom of my heart team...the very best for the future.

I'm gutted for those that will be affected by this terrible news, they've worked damn hard to get to where they are today and for that to be taken away due to the errors of the previous governments really is a shame.