"Few bombers, aircraft carriers and Harriers around these days.."

Keesje, its not about the size of the dog in the fight, but about the size of the fight in the dog. And as you seem to like your history, do you know exactly how long it took the Germans to completely over-run your country in 1940? Here's a clue - an embarrassingly short time.

Thud105, I'll take that as an "out of ammo"

& size matters, principles tend to adjust to realities (unfortunately)

The simplest way of the FI people being listened to would be if they took on board some of the 'New British' i.e. some of those who have arrived in the last 50 years or so, a few hundred of them and The BBC, New Labour, New Tories , G Galloway esq, and all 50 readers of The Guardian would be the first at the barricades to defend them ! Simples !!

milo

I suggest moving the above to the FI - two birds with one stone.

Though I suspect the Argies would be a lot less likely to want the FI with them as part of the package...

"principles tend to adjust to realities (unfortunately)"

That depends very much Keesje, on whether or not you feel that its better to die on your feet than to live on your knees. In 1940, the Dutch opted for the latter. Luckily, the British preferred the former.

A bit harsh Thud105...

In 1939, the Dutch government repeated the neutrality of 1914. In 1940, German strategy (right flanking) wasn't bothered about neutrals.

Mhhh, maybe that and a tad of salty water between the heroic brits and the not so heroic rest of the continent?

And by 'the Dutch opted' you mean they had a vote wether they wanted to kneel or fight?

BTW, the german airforce on the western front in 1940 was around 900 fighters, 220 destroyers, 1100 bombers and 320 divebombers strong, the Dutch had 140 airplanes all together.

Dutch ground troops: 8 infantry divisions, almost no tanks
German: 117 infantry divisions plus 6 motorized divisions, 10 tank divisions.

Hardly a match, don`t you think?

The Argentinians are nothing more than Spanish and Italian colonists who exterminated the indigenous population. Other South American nations view them are white men, intent on invading and occupying their neighbors (Chile).

Why on earth Britain gives them the time of day is beyond me, they speak bull**** and teh UK doesn't point out the flaws in theri bizzare logic.

Remember, the Spanish "Argentinians" used force to kick out the British from Buenos Aires, when the British has just as much right to be there ..having invaded.

Now, tell the Spanish/Italians settlers in 'Argentina' that Britain wants the country back, the settlers have no rights as they are colonists, only the indigenous people have a right to reside in 'Argentina'.

I honestly can't see them [the Argies]mounting any kind of military invasion. surly our brace of Typhoons will see them comming and take them out. they would need such overwhelming forces and be prepared to take severe losses.

However if they did I feel quite certain that as a Nation we would be more behind retaking the Islands by force than we are about Afg and Iraq.

In 1982 my team worked balls out around the clock, long hours, week ends until we were shagged. Similar during the first gulf. however inspite of having endorsed UORs the majority in the UK MoD still works 9 - 5 in support of HERICK. Expediture still needs high level approval and enormous debate and scrutiny leading to delay. (If folks don't believe me just check out the Public Accounts Ctee report). How Marshall managed to deliver C130 refuelling in 19 days flat I can't imagine today. it would take a month to form an inception meeting and capability working group!

I wish back in 1982 we had thrown some ordanace onto the mainland (did polaris only have a nuclear option?) I am pleased Maggie ordered the sinking of the Belgrano.

Frankly even if they do find any black stuff down there the Argies will stay at home if they know what was best.

Here is the prolem, Obama put her up to it! (Hates the Brits).
 

The point I'm trying to make to Keejes His Dudeness is that aggression needs to be resisted. And yes, in 1940 the Dutch did have options - resist or surrender, die on your feet or live on your knees. They opted to live on their knees.
Oh, and in 1940 the Germans also outnumbered the British, and at the start of the Battle of Britain the Luftwaffe outnumbered the RAF. Indeed, on paper it was "hardly a match."
Using your logic should the British have also surrendered?

The Argies have found a cheaper and far more damaging weapon: the media.

Making the Brits "colonialists" explain everywhere why exclusively the Falklands stand for everything in civilization, democracy and selfdetermination.

Brazil seems to stick with Argentina anyway. (Brazil: neither small, poor, unsuccessful or shy)

A growing majority of the global public will be making jokes and asking even more questions. For a decade and then see how things look.

Shooting at them would be so much easier and glorious.

"Shooting at them would be so much easier and glorious."

Seemed to work out pretty well last time.

I guess its just lucky for The Netherlands that in 1944 rather than "making jokes and asking even more questions. For a decade and then see how things look" the British, Americans, Australians and Canadians decided to resist the German's aggression and give your ancestors their country back.

You don't seem to either be willing or able to accept that the people who live in the Falklands don't want to be bossed about by the Argentineans. I imagine that in 1940 your grandparents weren't exactly enamoured at the idea of being bossed about by the Germans. Think about it.

Thud, I see changing the subject to a period neither you or I were present and trying to extract some backup from it as something close to
http://www.unsustainablefuture.com/f...white_flag.gif

I believe a lot of Dutch fought along with the Germans

More per head than any other country

What that has to do with the FI , I am not sure but it stopped me calling Keesle a ****, at the very least.

I have never heard that, nor has my Dutch wife, (her denial was much stronger!). I know a lot of Dutch risked their lives, (and many lost their lives), taking part in active resistance, they even had their cycles confiscated by the Germans in an effort to stop them communicating. Many Dutch families around Arnhem and Nijmegen did their very best to protect allied troops during the fighting and afterwards, at the risk of being shot if found out. To this day the graves of the Allied troops are proudly tended by local school children and the job passed down year by year.

para,

I'm not trying to start, or continue, a Dutch "bashing", argument. I'm also not sure the Dutch were any better or worse than a variety of other nations (including the British) in terms of volunteers fighting for the Germans in WW2, but for the sake of accuracy, you might like to show your wife this:

23rd SS Volunteer Panzer Grenadier Division Nederland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I know it's from wikipedia, but I'm sure it's simple enough to confirm from other sources.






Just to confirm I'm not "bashing" the Dutch, here's an article that talks about British volunteers fighting for the Germans:

British Volunteers in the German Wehrmacht in WWII

OK Biggus, point taken, hopefully there were more Dutch in the resistance than in the SS!

Fairly sure it was from Max Hastings recent book where I gleamed the info about the Dutch.

I have no doubt about their actions either at Arnhem

Guess there were masssive shifts in opinion from '39 to '44 in Holland and indeed else where.

I wonder if it was more a desire to stop the Soviets rather than support for Germany per se

Oh I also was not trying to bash the Dutch either, honest

Anyway, back to the thread. It would seem that only the Argentine Navy has had any investment post '82 conflict, with the Meko series of vessels. Both their Army and Air Force lack modern eqpt and numbers. Although their SF are probably still current.

However, they are way ahead in publicity and propaganda. It's an area. that HMG need to get to grips with, especially post referendum as "we" always seem to be on the back foot.

Gene