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Tristars grounded again?
What the hell is the matter with them now?
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I'm guessing snow!
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I'm guessing not :E
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What the hell is the matter with them now? |
What the hell is the matter with them now? Still past their use-by date?
If they are in the freezer, they'll last a bit longer. |
What the hell is the matter with them now? |
Last Friday 3 U/S at Marshalls and 2 in Abu Dhabi. Only leaves 4 others to be U/S!
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3 at Marshalls and 2 at AUH!! Really?
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It sounds as if it is high time 411A was called in to sort it out:D Nobody knows the L1011 better than him.
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Or anything else, for that matter :rolleyes:
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Flap issue?
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Timmy trouble
An Aging aircraft
flying 'Unusual' operational flight profiles Unserviceability on one aircraft being serious enough to Necessitate fleet checks That find more damage That Ground all four of the aircraft at Brize Until we get spares Which we don't have Which come from our 'supplier' in Canada Which takes time on a good day But much longer when most of the airfields in the UK are shut! Rest assured that the boys and girls at 216 are doing everything that they can to get the aircraft serviceable especially at this time of year. |
Badger, thanks for the info. Nothing but dubious rumours this end.
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Witney Gazette
You do have to wonder at the naivety of the London Airport people who apparently asked whether the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome could accept some civil passenger flights during the recent snowstorms!
From the Witney Gazette: Base could not help 3:08pm Tuesday 21st December 2010 HEATHROW airport bosses asked RAF Brize Norton if it could take some passenger flights during the snow storms. The base turned down an official request from Heathrow Airport on Saturday, because it needed to concentrate on its military efforts. Last night, teams were still trying to defrost planes and clear the base of snow in preparation for the return of hundreds of troops for Christmas. Group Captain Dom Stamp said the base had to refuse the request. He said: “We were not able to take any from them, because we simply would not have the ability to park them and to handle them, and obviously our output was what was crucial to us, our military output, providing the air bridge (link to Afghanistan), so we had to concentrate on that.” There are about 23 vehicles and 20 staff keeping the runways clear, and the base has 80,000 litres of de-icer in reserve. Staff cannot use grit or rock salt because of the damage it could cause to aircraft engines. RAF Brize Norton uses its on-site weather station, which gives round-the-clock updates on air and runway temperatures, wind speeds, and visibility Gp Capt Stamp added: “Every single person at Brize Norton understands the crucial support that we provide to operations, and in particular the need to pull out all the stops to bring back personnel who are looking forward so much to spending Christmas with their families and loved ones." “As the RAF’s busiest airport, it was absolutely vital we were well prepared." “This preparation, and the excellent job that my people have undertaken, has proven to be vital in overcoming the severe weather conditions experienced so far this winter.” Hope the TriStars are soon cleared to resume flights! |
10's to the rescue...?
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The comment of them being past there sell by date!
Errr whats the sell by date of an aircraft? it was 2016 ish then they have changed it to 2013 When the FSTA comes in to service, how long before its past its sell by date? 2 years? 5 Years? 10 years? fwiw the sqn fleeet leader has half the hours that most of the civvies one had when they went out of service. Make a comparison, all the Quantas 380's were grounded coz of a suspect fleet prob, does that make em past there sell by date now? Keep working on em fellas lets get the herrick back on track |
I hate to be old fashioned but .............
OPSEC :ugh: |
Tri-Star troubles
The avionics upgrade will probably be binned now with these ongoing airframe fatigue issues, after a shedload of money spent at Marshalls.
No Sim or training devices are yet available, so all training would need to be carried out on real expensive a/c when not u/s. Dedicated crews needed for this one Tanker a/c as presumably unable to 'two type' due to many glass/cockpit flightdeck differences with unmodified a/c. A330 will be coming into service by the time any others upgraded. (two years or so so far on first upgrade a/c, and still not in service.) |
That telegraph article was a right load of hoop. Makes you wonder where they find their "RAF Sources", public bar of the Beehive I shouldn't wonder!
Still, I share everyones hopes that it all gets back on track soon, our brethren on Aarse are making the most of it I see. |
Ivan - OPSEC??
a. Its in a broadsheet with sanctioned comments by the hierarchy. b. Absolutely everyone is aware of the problem due to the very high profile that such issues create. As for the VC10 carrying pax again, the hypocrisy is astounding. |
An RAF source said the ground proximity issue was “mitigated” by having another crewman in the cockpit as an “extra pair of eyes to keep a look out”. |
As for the VC10 carrying pax again Captains are getting their jobs back, after learning of their losses a few weeks ago? BW |
As for the VC10 carrying pax again, the hypocrisy is astounding. Permission was requested for a Comp C to fly back from west coast of the USA to the UK a few months ago and denied because of this rule. The bloke, a mover, flew home civvy. Rules is rules apparently. |
I carried many thousands of passengers on 10 Sqn without "ground proximity warning sytems" and never killed anyone. This crap about GPWS etc is just nonsense - operate to your LIMITS and you will be safe. When it comes to carrying passengers around, safety isn't a matter of equipment, it's a state of mind.
If you can't see at DA, go-around. It's very simple. |
In the olden days our "Ground Proximity Warning System" (GPWS) was called "Terrain Following Radar" (TFR) ;)
Meanwhile, our civvy B757s are still not past their sell-by date. They're only just coming up to 87,000 hours/29,000 cycles. They'll be catching up with your VC10s before long. (Ducks to avoid flak...) |
Rather fly in the the good old VC-10 than a Tri* anyday! :)
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I carried many thousands of passengers on 10 Sqn without "ground proximity warning sytems" and never killed anyone. This crap about GPWS etc is just nonsense - operate to your LIMITS and you will be safe. When it comes to carrying passengers around, safety isn't a matter of equipment, it's a state of mind. If you can't see at DA, go-around. It's very simple. With the odd, very rare, exception TAWS has pretty much finished the CFIT accidents that were killing hundreds if not thousands of people every year on civil airliners. |
Plus they dont nag, expect tea and coffee and certainly dont stink of 2 week old p*ss!
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Daysleeper
"killing hundreds if not thousands of people every year on civil airliners" How many were killed each year by RAF transport aircraft engaged on routine passenger flights? |
Rather fly in the the good old Tri* than a VC-10 anyday!:O
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I hate to be old fashioned but ............. OPSEC For Christ's sake don't go and read Wikileaks then, you'll have a seizure - that stuff really IS classified. The bonus is it's really embarrassing the bunches of lying bastards in governments various. No surprises, but reassuring nevertheless. |
It would appear that we, the RAF and the Regulators are becoming too risk averse.
GPWS were surely mandated to mitigate for twin crew cockpits in the more modern airliners. The VC10 has a four crew cockpit on the C1 and the NAV and/or the Eng are the GPWS. As an Ex-VC10 operator, it is a team effort not to fly into the ground and the additional 2 flight deck crew surely make up for no GPWS. After all, the VC10 has been operated for a long time now with no CFIT. Frustrated.... |
Dear lord preserve us from old fools
Extra crew members are no defence against CFIT, DC-10 ANZ Mt Erebus anyone, or 727 Dan Air in Tenerife or L1011 Eastern in the Florida everglades and so on and so on... The causes of CFIT are multitude and like all accidents usually have a chain of events leading up to it. TAWS intervenes to break that chain, successfully. It is not always perfect, a determined crew can still ignore the voice and the kit can break, but in the vast vast majority of cases it prevents accidents. Ask yourself whether it would be acceptable to lose a "routine" trooping flight to a preventible accident cause. Seems the decision to stop the VC-10 doing routine pax flights is quite sensible. I just hope the Tristar has a proper database driven TAWS fitted (either EGPWS or T2/3 CAS) and not an old GPWS set. |
Frustrated - correct!
GPWS was introduced to try and prevent idiots killing themselves - particularly in 2-person flight decks with some wet-behind-the-ears sprog in the RHS. Irrelevant in the VC10, but you try and persuade the yellowcoat culture of today! Even a GPWS didn't stop the 'Terrain, Terrain, Pull up' command to an Avianca 747 being acknowledged by 'Yeah...yeah' from the Captain and no action 15 sec before he killed everyone on board by flying into a mountain near Madrid in 1984. The value of the old cushion-dampeners ;) at the back of the VC10 flight deck shouldn't be underestimated - just remember how it was they survived to become that old! Dear Lord, protect us from those without sufficient airmanship and experience to cope without an electric nanny telling them when it's time to pee. |
GPWS was invented to alert good people to mistakes, it reduced the fatal CFIT rate initially, when enhanced with a terrain database and positional information it has almost eliminated the CFIT rate.
It has nothing to do with experience or being "wet behind the ears" and everything to do with being human. Bluntly you are living in a dream world if you think you were or are proof against mistakes, yours or other peoples and multiple crew members do not prevent CFIT accidents, there are thousands of dead as evidence for that. I already said you can't prevent every single accident, but you can reduce the rate to almost nothing and that has been achieved, now ask why you would NOT want to do that. Again the question is - is the loss of 150 British military personnel to CFIT acceptable? If the answer is no then operate aircraft with a modern TAWS. Not really a "yellow coat" culture, but how about a safety culture? As in operating in a way that minimises the risks while maximising the benefit, or from a military perspective it would take the Taliban about 18 months to kill as many people of our people as a VC-10 could in one accident. By the way... Dan Air Tenerife Commander 15,000 hrs, FO 3,500 hrs FE 3,500 hrs not exactly wet behind the ears. I could go on but it's late and you seem to be stuck in the 1960's |
Ah yes GPWS, that wonderful safety device that used to scream 'On Taxiway, On Taxiway' during the take off roll so that you missed the V1 call!!!!
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Of course, its not just that those decrepit vc10s are old - it's that they are no longer fully airways equipped, being minus TCAS/TAWS, RVSM and I doubt not even FM Immune. Nor do they comply with civil noise standards for civil airports. Nor do they comply with 25 year old PAX lighting rules - apparently just short of 1970's african airline standards - but seemingly okay for todays RAF?
The BZN Fleets have been ignored to their death and the -10's only revived with a sticking-plaster policy because the ignored -11's have past their best before date by a mere 20 years. - must be bed-time... |
Rigga
Even a cursory google could have told you that the vc10 has TCAS, is RVSM approved and the civil noise issue being an urban myth. An old stude of mine still flies them and confirmed the floor lighting issue combined with lack of GPWS meant that pax carrying was too risky for ministers in the light of Haddon-Cave. Too risky right until they're needed again. Either they can or they can't - seems like no one has the kahunas to stand by their decision. Would appear that the RAF is broken. |
lease a few A330's for trooping only...
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BEagle is arrogant enough to think he knows better than the people who have researched the safety case for these things. He thinks he can chose which instruments are inportant and which can be ignored. To be honest, I find his attitude a cause for concern. If he was on my sqn I would have him grounded.
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