@ Rumpunch:

'We never had afterburners and looked good at airshows thats why we were canned.'

Utter utter hoop mate. Get a grip

The MR2 did an amazing job, flown by awesome crews and engineered and administered by excellent ground support staff - but it was not binned for its lack of airshow 'impact'.

Comments like yours don't help those who are now very scared at RAF Kinloss.

It's around this time on a Sunday night after a couple of stiff malt whiskies and whilst the Mrs watches David Tennant getting his end away on the BBC that I think, wouldn't it be cool to log onto prune and give the masses the benefit of a pithy one liner. One that would summarise the dismay of the AEOp world both at Kinloss, Waddo and the various outposts we find ourselves in. I could even attempt to endear ourselves us to our Loadie bretheren both fixed wing and rotary.

Unfortuneately I just feel quite sad that we as a trade will probably never be the same again, that the RAF is pretty much bobbing around with the last floaters in the toilet of defence and that Moray (a county most of my family know as home) is unlikely to recover from being raped by the aftermath of the bankers and sharletons who peddle lies and deceit in the City.

:(

wokkamate

My gripe is not with helo world, Its blatant obvious the MRA4 was canned to save the fast jet world. The correct personnel at the top managed to wangle David Cameron into his mindset. Even Liam Fox tried to sway the PM but he took advice from the wrong people hell bent on making Afghan a longer war that will save the Army.

I feel strongly against the wishes of our Government to scrap the MRA4 and leave us short in many areas a coastal nation should be only looking to invest in.
As for those fine people who are now wondering what the future holds, whether in 5 or 10 years time, the requirement for a frame such as the MRA4 will be noticed, acted upon then they will need experience to man it.
We may not see this airframe in air force blue but possibly in navy blue.
The RN were our main benefactors of our primary role and sense dictates that they may gain from our loss.
We will lose many experienced personnel, some nearing their time, others not deserving. It isn't fair, and wailing, complaining etc will not matter.
Move on. the Nimrod is dead.
LRMPA I feel sure is not.
WSOp's may have a very different career path now that the Kinloss bubble has been burst. I hope those that survive SDSR and redundancy embrace what the future holds; and sincerely wish those with no option but to look elsewhere; solace in a job well done.
For all of our variances, those involved with the Nimrod MR2 for the last 10 or so years, aircrew and ground crew alike, can hold our heads high and say that a difference was made, not public knowledge and therefore no high profile announcements.
Well done, and good luck to all.

Rumpunch has indirectly brought up a very salient point.

Just about the whole of the RAF's senior leadership has / is made up from the FJ community ( with a few exceptions ). Therefore there will always be a bias in that direction and why is it always have to be aircrew to reach the very top of the Service ?

Compared to SH / AT, the FJ contribution in AFG has been limited, therefore why is nothing but FJ leadeship when AFG is meant to be the only game in town right now ? And please don't give me any bollacks about a non FJ type not getting the bigger picture: Biographies : GENERAL NORTON A. SCHWARTZ

C130, when did the RN last have an Engineer or a Paymaster as CNS? Or the Army have an Engineer or Logistics man as CGS?

All Services select from a teeth branch.

Brian Burridge?
He was a Maritime man until 11Gp and 18gp merged to become 11/18th Hussars!!
A fine example to all officers on how to survive when allegedly kicked out of house by the then wife!!:E

PN - not sure if I have fallen for your bait, but isn't the current CGS an engineer?

I'll throw this one out there.....

Those in the aircrew business usually fell into 2 groups going through training. Those that wanted to go far north and those that didn't.

Those that wanted to go were loved by all when the role disposal came around. Those same people could be the ones dishing out the "dry your eye's" lines (not saying they are, but you get my point)

Some compasssion in this whole episode is called for in my opinion. Here's hoping for a soft landing to the redundancies and not a bubble burst for the majority...

Correct. General Sir Peter Wall was appointed to CGS in Sep of this year and is a Royal Engineer. And wasn't AM French (the old CinC) a Chinook mate?

Strato, thanks, however a Sapper would have told me they are usually in front of the infantry and the tanks so technically are as teeth as the Paras.

Maybe the MRA4s won't get broken up after all:

Government considers sale of aircraft axed in review - Reuters

It seems the article is talking entirely about Harrier and nothing to do with Nimrod! the picture of the Nimrod isn't a Mk 4 either.
Given the overruns, the spiralling costs and the history of the project I would be very surprised,no shocked if anyone would buy the MRA 4

The Assistant Chief of the Air Staff is a Chinook mate.

The Assistant Chief of Defence Staff is a Chinook mate.

There are at least 4 Air Cdre non-FJ mates from Herc, VC10 and RW backgrounds.

So I do not believe it is a FJ old boys club!

Fair enough, but you did ask when was the last time the Army had an engineer or loggie as CGS, clearly not expecting the answer which you got.

LJ,

Noted, but the CAS is a ? The last CAS was a ? The one before him was a ?

Mmmmm - there are some senior officers who did not start out as FJ aircrew though, the current Commandant of Cranwell was a JT before getting his commission.... so what does that make him? Ambitious?

Don't forget that the CINC is a Navigator - not that it should make that big a difference.

I think that the glass ceiling for non-FJ aircrew is well and truly broken though.

Sir, your memory fails you as Baggers is a Tornado GR4 mate.

The B Word

BTW Sir John Day was a 4-star CINC and was a Wessex mate prior to Sir Brian Burridge who was a Nimrod mate.

So there are plenty of RAF 4-stars in recent years that are non-FJ.

The B Word