"No - really - I wasn't chopped - honestly!"
 

There's been an interesting bit of thread drift on the Reservist tanker pilot thread about people who "weren't chopped" but left flying training before completion for all sorts of other reasons.:rolleyes:

Worthy of its own thread I thought. I'll start the ball rolling with two I heard, both at weddings recently of friends of the Teeterettes - and of course they didn't know my background.....:E Both had "left" from Valley.

1. "I really enjoyed the Hawk, but decided halfway through the course that I'd much rather be a Dental Nurse!" (this was a male)

2. "I passed the Hawk Course, but there were no OCU places left, so they reluctantly had to "let me go"."

This is going to be good- you norty boy!

CG

Some of us do at least admit to failure.

3 of the biggest lies are:

1. The cheque is in the post.
2. Of course I'll love you in the morning (there is a ruder version..).
3. I always wanted to be a navigator.

Teeter - The first... classic! The second at the moment, not so far from reality so I hear from the yoof! An awful lot of guys with not many spaces to go to...

Bit of a thread drift here. One of my buddies on the engineering degree course at Cranwell was chopped from engineering and went for pilot training instead. He became quite an eminent QHI.

Or the "IntO" who "was taking a break from flying", because he was "too aggressive at low level"... in a Tutor.... :hmm:

S41

People might think I'm waffling, but after passing the training, I decided that I really did want to be an LAC Gunner.

Promise. :cool:

On my return from Harvard FTS at Bulawayo, Southern Rhodesia in 1953. I visited, by arrangement, his home to see how he was after having to transfer to the army to complete his 2 years National Service requirement.
He was a few minutes late getting home from work, so I spent a few minutes talking to his mother while I waited. He had been let go for generally not being up to the required standard.
However his mother said, "Of course, it was his own fault - flying under all those bridges" !! (Err - Yes, of course ......). :rolleyes:

Sort of inline with SOSL’s comment:

I knew a chap that was chopped from being an airframes/engines apprentice and then got kicked off the engine Direct Entry Fitters (DE) course to go onto a Mechs course. Several years later I met him when we travelling down to Deci. He was the Navigator on the Herc. Good lad.:D:D

I didn't get chopped from BFT..... really!! They were doing an experiment by sending people rotary from the Basic Handling Test to save money. They did it with some students direct from EFT. Some made it to senior officer level and were very good pilots.
However, the truth......... It was the best thing that ever happened to me, because I knew that it was only a matter of time before I was going to get chopped. There never ever ever has been a fast jet pilot hiding inside me :ok:

Most of us were recoursed off our basic nav course after 4 weeks. Not because we were no good but because the students ahead of us were too good and too many passed and could not go on to the advanced nav course.

Believe it or not, that was true.

Equally I am probably still alive because of it. About 2-3 were not recoursed and the one who went straight through a month ahead of me was on the Vulcan that crashed at Coningsby.

And the rotary one was well hidden!:E

To be fair, who would really say that they got chopped because they were useless?

JT2
 

If that ain't a fast jet pilot inside you, what have you got around your waist?

I got chopped from a Buccaneer squadron, because no matter how much I loved it (lots) I really wasn't very good at it!!

It would be exceptionally rare for any pilot trainee to be 'useless'. Often the reason for being removed from training is due to something else - such as limited spare mental capacity, reaching a plateau of ability, being unable to progress at the required rate. But rare indeed to be considered 'useless'. Slow learners? A chum was nearly chopped after failing the 'conversion handling check' on the JP5, but later became a top test pilot!

At the end of the old (and excellent) common-core JP course, pilots would be streamed according to their aptitude. Also, FJ streamed pilots who couldn't cope with the Gnat or TWU might find themselves re-streamed to multis - but back in about 1975-6, ME training actually stopped altogether at one stage, so there was nowhere for them to go if they were removed from training at Valley.

In fact you had to have reached the FJ OCU stage to have any chance of being re-streamed in 1976-ish. Some who subsequently went to the Vulcan did an 'asymmetric' course on the Canberra T4 which was about 3 hours of which about 20 min were on 2 engines, I gather! Great fun, or so they said.

You can indeed be 'wrong place, wrong time' if suspended from BJFT, due to the varying ME/RW requirements of the service. One chap I knew never failed a course, but was told that there were no slots available. So he became an Air Trafficker, but successfully fought his corner a few years later and became (I think) a Nimrod pilot.

Self-suspensions are equally rare. One chap I knew scared himself by seeing his cine-gun film of an A/A session against the flag behind Puddy's Meatbox - and the Meteor was in the frame whilst he was still firing. He admitted that he hadn't realised this - so asked to be re-streamed before he killed someone. Another chap simply "wasn't happy" even when tootling along on a perfect summer day at 250ft and 420 kts even if 100% sure of his position - so self-suspended and became an Engineering Officer.

But I've never heard of anyone who soloed in the JP being dismissed as 'useless'.

DeltaHotel,

Forgive what might seem a silly point, but I thought that once you got to sqn stage, you would have been deemed to have been 'very good' at it?

Or, am I not realising a wah when I see it anymore? :(

I remember a story about a Harrier pilot at Gut about 84 ish, who walked into his boss's office and basically admitted that he was on the edge with no spare capacity on just about every trip. If the story is true, he was grounded at his own request there and then.

I admired his decision. Don't know what became of him.

CG

Couldn't fit in for all the pies already there...


Met an ATCer who had been chopped whilst holding after Valley. Had been sent ATC for a tour (no TacWep slots) and his SATCO decided he should never be allowed to go back to pilot. Okaaay....

Or the pilots that decided on a career brake and decided to give fighter control a try.

Someone Else Remembers
 

At a ground officers training school in Lincolnshire summer '64, the students assembled and went round the class to introduce themselves.

One ex-nav trainee said; "because of my injured knee, I lost my medical 'cat' and now I'm in a ground branch". From the back of the room a quiet voice piped up: "why not tell 'um how you were caught cheating on your star shots".

Said officer did quite well but in civvy street years later he was fired in a blaze of publicity 'cause - you guessed it - he was caught cheating.

Chop Rate Fluctuations....
 

Teeteringhead.

On a serious note to the thread you started there must be cyclical changes to how the pass rate is determined, not just at BFT and AFT but at later stages such as TWU and OCU. (Sorry, I don't know the current names, but when I went through my flying trg Brawdy and Chiv were still going strong and there were none of these reserve squadron name plates either....)

I was never a QFI or wheel in the flying training business and only saw the system from the viewpoint on being a "stude" but in the pre-Falkland Isands era when John Nott was threatening to wield the axe there was serious concern in the multi world (I went through METS at Fy in 1981 when this was a strong topic) that virtually all Canberras, Vulcans, Shacks, Andovers and even METS itself might all be for the chop which would lead to a glut of multi-engined pilots looking for a job. The QFI's themselves at METS and 242 OCU were all pretty anxious about their future posting and career prospects, let alone their studes!

The System must, albeit with extreme lag, have a way of communicating to the FTS world whether the tap is to be opened or closed. Get into the system at the "wrong" point of the cycle and your chances of passing IOT, BFT, AFT or whatever could be seriously reduced. It would be interesting to hear from those with a QFI background, how this worked in practice......

The "multi-engine bar" I am sure was raised during this time with a higher chop rate than before......Then along came the Falklands War and suddenly it was all change.....but by then it was too late for the "choppees" who ended up in other jobs or back in civvy street.

Certainly, there were lots of "holding postings" between courses then and probably there still are, and this was a way of managing the peaks and troughs but I suspect that the cuts that are coming will leave no option but for those running the system to chop trainees who would otherwise have passed a course. Hard for all.....especially for those still with stars in their eyes about all things Air Force and at the start of what for most is a life's ambition.

MB

Or the pilots that decided on a career brake

Seems to sum things up pretty well .....:ouch:

Jack

I got chopped! I was rubbish!. I invented the 'no capacity rejoin' and thought it really nice that both my QFI and Flt Cdr were as I was shutting there to make sure I'd had a nice ride!

QFI: "Melchett, are you trying to kill us?"
Melchett: "No, why?"
QFI: "In that case, would mind awfully aiming for the threshold rather than the fence 50 yds in front of it"

During the debrief ..... look I know your heart is set on flying jets, but frankly it wouldn't be fair to send you that route. Before the end of week one, you'd be in a smoking hole in the ground. And whilst I'm not bothered about you, it wouldn't be fair to waste a perfectly good aircraft like that.

Ahhh the good old days :ok:

Al R

I guess everyone has a limit to their capacity/ability - it's only a matter of when (if) it's discovered. Found a niche in C130 and QFIing and subsequently as a757/767 skipper.

Being chopped hurt at the time, but was probably a good thing for me and the FJ navs. I still cherish my whole 211 hours on type!

For many, I suppose, the foresight and pragmatism that you or the boss had, never came. Or if it did - only after something catostrophic and tragic happened.

Glad you found your niche and 211 hours can't be bad.. :ok:

The odd ball slips through the net. Many moons ago, there was a keen young Officer Cadet who was chopped from OTU for lack of 'OQs.'

He then joined the Army on a National Service Commission (I told you it was many moons ago!) and served for three years as an Officer, although not quite in The Household Brigade.

So, having mastered the art of massaging Senior Officers' egos, he re-applied to the RAF and breezed through OTU. At his JP school, he became great mates with Harry Staish, and, with a lot of help from very patient QFIs, just passed the course.

At Multi training, he had one of the greatest QFIs on the base, and, with a great deal of help, he passed.

He then went to OCU. Despite having to stay behind the rest of his course to re-take his Instrument Rating, he passed and was posted to an operational Squadron. The Squadron QFI was horrified at Our Lad's performance, and tried to get him scrubbed. Higher authority would not allow it. That Squadron was disbanded, so he went to another Squadron, where, after assessment, he was only allowed to fly with the Squadron QFI. During that tour he was a house guest of an Air Officer, when he let it slip that his wife was living with a Sergeant, and although he had reported it, nothing had been done. Three Senior Officers at Our Lad's base had red faces over that. It pays to cultivate Top Cover!

His next posting was to an aircrew training school as a Staff Pilot. There followed many complaints from the other (non-pilot) instructors. That was when Wingco Flying got smart. Having reviewed Our Lad's progress, he recommended him for QFI training! Now you might think that he was passing the buck. Well, you would be right. He passed the buck to the only people who had the authority to sort it out. Our Lad lasted but a few weeks at Little Rissington, before being sent to a Ground Tour with his docs endorsed that he was never to be given another flying appointment.

Our Lad was, however, allowed to keep his wings; after all, he had completed an operational tour.

Very harsh banter I think. I did try hard to hide the rotary pilot, I reckon I just managed it!! What you didn't know was that my brain was telling me to eat pies and they would let me go to multis. Unfortunately you needed some basic skills to fly those as well. Now you know where Shergar went..... Yum Yum!!

I can tell a similar tale about someone who apparently "slipped through the net" but with a tragic ending in a very public accident.

Jayteeto
You are absolutely right. Post edited to be less specific.
Cheers

KF, I know what BEages said but I really did want to navigate and navigate as many diferent types as I could. I succeeded even if I was thwarted and trained as a nav-rad to start with. I still managed to grab a few single nav sorties on the mighty V and well as several other of Avro's finest.

I admit that by the time I reached the Shack that urge was fading although by then I became a directional consultant for fast-jets that had lost their way.

I have to agree. As my reward for an RAF Scholarship awarded in '65 I went off to the flying club at Castle Donington (now EMA) to complete my PPL on the Chipmunk. This I duly did although not without a fare amount of stress (landing was my initial hurdle!)
On completion of the course the CFI enquired as to whether I had also passed the Nav aptitude at Biggin. I answered in the affirmative & he politely advised me that might be my better career path.
I can honestly admit that I have never regretted that advice for a single moment. I had a great time in Maritime & subsequently in both of my careers in civil aviation.
The alternative would have probably been to end up either chopped or as a truckie co pilot. Ugh.

When asked about where I did my training I say that I completed the Jestream lead-in phase at TWU! I was very lucky to be allowed to move on to the JS because as mentioned above they were not taking many at that time.

MM

Mind you, I had an ex-truckie copilot on Nimrods. He could make a Flight Imprest sing! However, our Boss did draw the line at flowers for the ladies who had to clean up after us, following our hugely successful detachment party in Nîmes!

One of the few benefits of being sent to RAF Biggin Hill for aircrew reselection in early 1977 was the number of chopped Fighter Controllers who appeared every so often to brighten our spirits. Several of whom were certainly worth 'a try'....:E

.......& who later became my P1 & as you say, was worth his wait in pasties! Also he was lucky, he escaped the truckie world!
He's now a very successful business consultant.

And also a benefit to the Sunspot crews onthe Malta Adexes. :}

I was never chopped from anything - I was so good that I finished Tac-Wpns early, was destined for the Harrier and did the hovering course. However I think my paperwork must have been mixed up - because the hovering course lasted 12 years and included 4 different helicopter types!!

Back in the day when every young man wanted to be a single seat fighter pilot (and those who expressed doubts were sent to see the Command shrink at Brampton) there was a chap on the course ahead of me who was adamant he wanted to fly VC10s. Everyone else (including Staniforth, the CFI) thought he was nuts but 'trucking' was his thing.

Paul went on to fly the Ten before moving across to the Canberra where he unfortunately met his fate.

PS. Never chopped, merely 'streamed' :)