But the F-35 has never been planned to replace any of the Typhoon Sqns.

Not in one fell swoop, but at some point in the dim and distant future older Typhoons will be phased out at the same time as new F-35s continue to enter service.

All this comment is saying (to me at least) is that some of these older Typhoons will have to serve a little longer than planned if the F-35 proves to be too expensive.

Straw clutching at it's finest


The death spiral tightens.

Doesn't compute. If the F-35 proves too expensive and the order is cut, then in that time frame new F-35s won’t be entering service because purchases would have ceased. In which case the Typhoons will be replaced by whatever has selected as an alternate platform.

If the order isn't cut then there will be no need to extend the life of any other current type.

The comment only makes sense if a cut to the order is already being contemplated in the current SDR.

Still not cancelled.
I wonder if we should ask for this thread to be locked and a new one started about, simply, the F-35. (All pro and con considered).

What do you all think?

ORAC - they aren't contemplating a "cut" - it will be a "deferment" ... for a few budgets/Reviews and then the total buy will just quietly fade away to maybe 60 aircarft

This is the kind of thing that is contributing to uncertainty:

https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/687982.pdf

Fig. 3 in particular.

Even the USAF has been forced to reduce its delivery rate by 25 per cent, so the program of record now has the USAF getting ship # 1763 in 2046, 50 years after the project got started.

He’ll have to hurry, older Typhoons are being scrapped for parts.

'Older' is a relative term, Stitchbitch. The 'older' airframes that may be retained in the future are not the same older airframes that you say are now being scrapped for parts. Right now, they are the newer airframes. But you know that.

I'm shocked, shocked...

F-35 stealth fighter caught spying on its owners

Here's the original in Noggysprek, for those with Chrome.

https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/no...al-suverenitet

Lots of people are going to pretend to be surprised by this.

Canada to announce plan to buy second-hand Hornets from Australia; scraps Super Hornet initiative

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada is scrapping a plan to buy 18 Boeing Super Hornet fighter jets amid a deepening dispute with the U.S. aerospace company, three sources familiar with the matter said on Tuesday.

Instead, the Liberal government will announce next week it intends to acquire a used fleet of older Australia F-18 jets, the same kind of plane Canada currently operates, said the sources, who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the situation.

Boeing statement on the Canadian Interim Fighter Capability Project and free and fair competition:

We have read reports that the Government of Canada is choosing to purchase used F/A-18 Classic Hornets from the Royal Australian Air Force in lieu of new Super Hornet fighter jets.

The Boeing Company respects the Canadian government’s decision and applauds the government’s continued use of a two engine fighter solution, which is a critical part of their northern Arctic border defense, NORAD cooperation, and coast to coast to coast security.

Although we will not have the opportunity to grow our supply base, industrial partnerships and jobs in Canada the way we would if Canada purchased new Super Hornets, we will continue to look to find productive ways to work together in the future. Boeing is fortunate to have an outstanding 100 years of partnership with Canada, which had culminated in our $4B annual economic impact in Canada, and we look forward to partnering for the next 100 years.

Our commitment to creating a level playing field in aerospace remains. Therefore, we will continue to support all efforts to build an environment of free and fair competition marked by compliance with agreed upon rules.

Sale contingent upon US Govt approval.

Hmmmm......how hard is a hard ball?

Fig.3 is definitely not good news but I was taught that truncated graphs can often be misrepresentative apart from showing trends. I have been suspicious of them ever since. Like statistics, they can be manipulated to suit an agenda.

This side-by-side comparison of graphs showing the same information demonstrates what I mean. I'll leave others to decide which is more representative.

23.9 per cent is nearly a quarter, any way you draw the chart, and it's a little disappointing for a jet that was advertised as cheaper to operate than an F-16.

Yeah but the manufacturer has to claw back losses elsewhere somehow

Yikes, when it comes to kicking the can down the road, no one seems to kick like Canada. I realize there will be a refit, but are slightly less knackered first generation Hornets really the way to go? I just fear a repeat of the Sea King saga where the can just keeps being kicked until things start falling out of the sky....

However, it does buy some time, perhaps enough to reach a settlement on the Bombardier C series dispute with Boeing.
If no agreement can be reached, Canada will buy combat aircraft from anyone but Boeing, so Europe and perhaps even Russia would have a shot.

Germany favors Eurofighter as it seeks to replace Tornado

BERLIN (Reuters) - The German Defence Ministry said on Monday that the European fighter jet was the leading candidate to replace its Tornado jets, which it wants to start phasing out in 2025. The ministry’s position appears to contradict that of the German air force, whose chief indicated last month that he preferred Lockheed Martin’s F-35, which meets the military’s requirements of stealth and long-distance operational capabilities.

In a letter to a Greens lawmaker who had inquired about the deliberations, the ministry said the F-35 and Boeing’s F-15 and F-18 fighters were secondary options.“The indicated view of the inspector of the air force that the F-35 Lightning II is an especially suitable successor to the Tornado system is not the position of the federal government,” Deputy Defence Minister Ralf Brauksiepe wrote in the letter.......

The contract to replace Germany’s 85 Tornado jets, which go out of service around 2030, could be worth billions of euros. A new fighter purchase would have to be approved by parliament in the next two years and a contract signed by 2020 or 2021 to ensure deliveries by 2025. No final decision is likely before a new government is formed, following elections this past September......

Buying Advanced Super Hornets instead of F-35’s would at least contained some sense in that they would have been getting new aircraft with a full service life to go, and were superior to the Legacy Hornets they would have been replacing.

How will 35 year old Australian Hornets be in better shape then equally old Canadian Hornets?

Legacy Hornets are out of production, and being phased out of service. Keeping old aircraft flying is costly, and will only get more so the longer they continue to operate.

As for the bad news that is continually being peddled around about the F-35, there certainly have been problems, but, also a great deal of overblown hysteria.

There have been a large number of various critical Government teams studying the F-35 purchases. All but Canada’s, seem to have been satisfied that the various contentious issues are being attended to.

It would seem that the process has become a political football, that their selection process has not been fit for purpose, and that Canada, and the Canadian Forces will end up with a less than optimal solution to their future defence needs.