Of what value is your getting shirty with brat about the myriad stumbles the program has had?

In hope that the upcoming stumble will be handled better if we take "denial" out of the list of management options.

In a perfect world!??

In the meantime some these ‘stumbling’ disasters of a plane have recently concluded taking part in Vigilant Ace where they will have had the opportunity to test sensors against North Korean forces and validate the accuracy of their threat data library against the real thing in operational conditions. 18 F-35 stealth fighter jets were deployed during the exercise along with 6 F-22’s which has now finished.
https://www.realcleardefense.com/art...te_112724.html

Doubtless the NK radar operators and their friends are doing exactly the same thing....

History tells us that Sparta was defeated after a long series of indecisive engagements allowed its enemies to identify and target the weak points of its military. The protracted 'war on terror' and exercises such as the above offer similar learning opportunities.

The alternative being?

Well, diplomacy does have its uses.
For instance, the US could mention to China and Russia that it is prepared to discuss the sale of nuclear weapons to South Korea and Taiwan unless North Korea is also denuclearized.
My guess is that this might attract more productive discussions than the expensive bluster has to date.

Fantastic idea. You are aware of the NPT?

OK now the Israeli Air Force has declared their LM F-35A's operational where are the naysayers?

IDFAF is one of the most combat ready air forces in the World and they're happy...

If somebody else pays the bills then every F-35 customer would be happy. Sadly only Israel is in this fortunate position.

JTO is correct.

Israel has cut a unique deal in other ways, particularly in terms of its future ability to match the jet's characteristics to its specific requirements. That is important, not nit-picking.

And they got a gift-wrapped industrial participation package, of the kind that everyone swore blind would never be handed to anyone, into the bargain.

The real issue is that the aircraft appears to work.

How it is paid for etc etc is a smokescreen. The US uses Israel as a a test and verification piece while maintaining a balance and bastion in the ME.

Israel certainly has a reputation of honing it’s weapon systems to a fine edge, and of being able to use them to their full potential.

Give it a rest, everyone knowns that those aircraft are not combat ready, all they are doing is burning gas and boring holes in clouds...

Given that the last 40 years of varying approaches have achieved the square root of bloody fork all, this current approach is no better and no worse than previous. Negotiations don't happen in a vacuum. Your suggestions on this simple solution to a somewhat complex problem, have you forwarded it to Foggy Bottom yet? OK, we are heading off topic, so I'll stop there.
I agree with JTO on the virtues of using 'other peoples' money.' As an American tax payer, I am not happy that our special relationship with the UK is somehow being overwritten by this "extra special" relationship with Israel.


No, everyone does not know that. You appear to be making stuff up. (As to "how many systems are cleared and how many are not" that's another matter and we can thank our friends in the world of software program management for how that's going. :p

The US uses Israel as a a test and verification piece[sic]

That may not be correct, since the Israelis appear to be headed towards customizing their F-35s. Media reports refer to an in-country test aircraft being delivered next year. If they follow the pattern with the F-16 (where they also had their own testbed jet) it's quite possible that the IDF jets will diverge from the standard upgrade track.

The real issue is that the aircraft appears to work.

To be more specific, it appears to meet Israeli criteria for IOC (or equivalent) and neither you nor I know what those criteria are.

Come on! Those aircraft were all flown by Lockheed shills.

Really? That could only be done if the US were to unilaterally abrogate the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, an extremely unlikely event. So China and Russia would almost certainly call that bluff.

Indeed we do not. But we can be confident that Israel's criteria were not created by the LM shills who supposedly created USMC's and USAF's criteria.

George, I believe I mentioned a few pages back that the IAF risk assessment and risk thresholds are likely to be different than other nations' programs and processes, and that they are incentivized to exercise the aircraft and arrive at their own change/mod proposals that are tailored to their requirements.

Put another way, they may have been willing to take on far more risk than the other users/stake holders.

The fact is that despite the problems that have occurred, the mistakes made, and indeed the money spent, the project and system has gone ahead, and seems to be a path that has led the way into the future of air combat.

A path that appears to be being followed by the Russians and Chinese.