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-   -   OFFICER and AIRCREW 'CANDIDATES' PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST! (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/405176-officer-aircrew-candidates-please-read-thread-first.html)

ljm10 29th Aug 2012 17:27

How often do Pilot vacancies appear? Any time I search on the RAF website they are never on the 'available roles' list. Very vague one liner but in a nutshell how hard would it be to pass all tests, scenarios etc to a standard where you would get the opportunity to become a RAF pilot? I can find very little info on the application process of the role.

camelspyyder 29th Aug 2012 18:01

Aircrew vacancies
 
Last year 170 trainee pilots were made redundant as were the last 5 courses of navigators. The surviving pilots are going through training now, so it's a fair bet pilot as a branch will open reasonably soon. WSOp, as I've already outlined, probably will not. I know there are Air Traffic Controllers training at Shawbury now so that could be a good route, either as direct-entrant SNCO or with a Commission. I also know ex- RAF aircrew students who are undergoing RN selection with a view to flying as rotary crewmen.

I know the prospects aren't great but you must explore every avenue if you want to fly.

In the RAF numbers of ABM, FC, Technicians, Linguists, IA's, Movers and Stewards all have flying roles and I'm sure the other Services probably have the same diversity. If it's not a piloting role you're after -consider other options - Flying is so much better than working for a living;)

CS

ljm10 29th Aug 2012 18:08

Many thanks for the info CS, good insight into what has within the force recently. You dont know how many applicants have typically applied for any given pilot campaign in the past?

muppetofthenorth 29th Aug 2012 19:24


Many thanks for the info CS, good insight into what has within the force recently. You dont know how many applicants have typically applied for any given pilot campaign in the past?
The old line used to be that for every person who made through to an operational seat as a pilot, 10,000 had visited an AFCO to enquire about the role.

Large pinch of salt needed with that, no doubt, but it's more than fair to say "extremely competitive".

ljm10 29th Aug 2012 19:26

:) reality check needed then!

Pontius Navigator 29th Aug 2012 20:23

MotN, I think is was possibly 10,000 in the AFCO with one thousand reaching OASC for 120 getting to IOT. There are also in-service applicants to consider.

Tommmo 29th Aug 2012 20:36

CS, just to clarify one of your points, the remaining pilots in the pipeline have not all started training - they are currently filling courses until early 2014.

From there it's possible to guess that the first EFT course with 'new' pilots in will be middle of 2014, so they'll possibly be graduating IOT early 2014 with a middle 2013 IOT start.

That's why I think they'll start recruiting pilots soon. There are a lot of assumptions there though, that's if they continue EFT at the same pace once all the holding pilots are through plus I'd imagine they could probably fill a course or two with waiting bursars.

muppetofthenorth 29th Aug 2012 23:24


MotN, I think is was possibly 10,000 in the AFCO with one thousand reaching OASC for 120 getting to IOT. There are also in-service applicants to consider
As I said, large pinch of salt needed as I believe the '10,000' also included people who wandered into the AFCO to pick up a leaflet never to think about it again.

NDW 31st Aug 2012 18:59


I also know ex- RAF aircrew students who are undergoing RN selection with a view to flying as rotary crewmen.
CS,

Excuse my ignorance.
Are the ex. RAF Aircrewman going straight is a D.E. RN Aircrew or are they having to undergo the whole selection process from the start?.

Just out of curiousity to see whether the RN are now considering D.E. Aircrew.

Thanks.

camelspyyder 31st Aug 2012 21:53

NDW
 
Honestly, I don't know the RN policy, but I do know a few people who got stalled in the RAF training pipelines and were offered the chance to swap over.

I believe rotary crewman training is possibly changing in future from disparate single-service courses to a one-fits-all tri-service affair. This may well change things from recruiting onwards.

CS

airborne_artist 10th Sep 2012 12:19

The Dark Blue do not normally have direct-entry rearcrew - Aircrewman Training | Royal Navy

NDW 12th Sep 2012 06:36

A_A & CS

Thanks for your replies.

I thought as much. It would be excellent if a similar route opened in the FAA. Even if it was just as a trial.

NDW

Pontius Navigator 12th Sep 2012 09:11

Recruitment is tailored to meet a need. If internal recruitment is sufficient then there is no need to take the risks attached to external recruitment.

Remember, an internal applicant will already have been given basic training, acquired skills above the basic level and more importantly been observed and reported on before getting to selection. The outcome for an internal recruit is more assured than for an external applicant.

It is also one reason why it seems harder for an internal recruit to gain a commission or become aircrew.

MAD Boom 17th Sep 2012 10:21

Pontius


It is also one reason why it seems harder for an internal recruit to gain a commission or become aircrew.
Excuse my ignorance; why would that be?

I only ask as it took me three applications from within the service before I eventually gained my commission.

Pontius Navigator 17th Sep 2012 11:24

MAD, I think, and that is only my opinion from years of observation, is that direct entrants are assessed more for PQs and potential and are 'captured' as soon as possible if suitable. An internal applicant may not have appeared to have the same potential for a commission but once they have enlisted they too are effectively captured.

They can then be assessed at leisure and over time. Some will be encouraged to go for a commission, others will think they are suitable. In both cases they will be given some form of encouragement - good or bad - and there will be some element of 'if your face doesn't fit' bias. Those internal candidates will often have to pass a station board composed of officers that have not qualified with AFCO or OASC interview skills.
Also PQs and leadership skills may also mature over time thus improving your chances.

Why harder? Very simply because there will have been many more direct entrance candidates that have presented with excellent qualifications but been rejected because needs have been fulfilled. Whereas there will be far fewer internal candidates have several more hoops to jump through.

Maybe someone else can elucidate better than me.

lj101 17th Sep 2012 13:46

Mad Boom



Flap 62

Any relation to Admin Guru? . .SNCO's rule the Air Force, like it or not it's a fact, and without us, you wouldn't have a clue how to go about your tiny existence.. .I cordially invite you to spend some time up here in the frozen north and see how far that attitude gets you before 300 AEOps place a fireaxe through your head!. .Will never want to be treated like an officer, would have to salute too much and write too many reports, just want the same pay as someone who flies on the same jet.

Man, did I just rise to the bait or what?. .T****r.

MADS

This is one of your posts (as I'm sure you will recognise), change of heart?

MAD Boom 18th Sep 2012 15:16

Lj

Wow! I must have seriously p***ed you off at some point. You've really done your homework on me there!

We all change eventually. Maybe I was having a 'I hate officers day', who knows? In the end, if you can't beat 'em ........ However, as my IOT Flt Cdr said, once a knocker, always a knocker. Still graduated though.

lj101 18th Sep 2012 15:40

Mad

No, not at all mate: I just laughed when i saw that post and your subsequent change of heart.


Well done ref commission and all the best :ok:

Bluntnotsharp 18th Sep 2012 18:22

ICS
 
Branch sponsors will often allocate a certain number of spaces for those who commission from the ranks - which means the internal market is only competing with itself in many cases. The rest of the target for the year will be bursars and direct entrants etc.

essexlad 30th Oct 2012 17:55

Whats the current state with NCO aircrew recruiting? As an SE FITT in the RAF can i use my completed city in guilds and key skills NVQ in lieu of my GCSE maths qualifications? And is it true that if your already 'in' that you stand a better chance compared to someone who is coming in from civvy street?


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