SAR gap on the atlantic could be covered by the Irish Air Corps with thier 2 CASA CN235 MPA. I believe they often worked in tandem with Nimrods on Top cover operations for long range SAR helis, more often than not the MRCC tasked Nimords first.

From They Work For You - 15Dec09 Future Defence Programme debate

Bob Ainsworth:
It is true that these 2 platforms can provide MPA responsibilities to a degree, however, if SoS Def has been led to believe they can replace the full multi role capability of Nimrod, then he's been mis-informed.

Vage rot asks what savings will be made as a result of this decision. My guess? Not a lot compared to the overall package ......... unless it's preparing the ground for binning MRA4 and closing Kinloss completely.

I don't believe CAS and 1SL are anything less than canny and astute politicians who have good brains between them. I think they're playing a high stakes game of poker with the house, car and wife on the table.

I hope you've got good cards Sirs.

PS Fortunately, your opponent is not the sharpest cookie in the box.

Dear Mr Vage Rot

Please accept the Season's Greetings and read your PM's

Love

H Harman (Ms) :suspect:

I don't recall ever finding the Irish Air Corps hanging about the place any time I was out that way. I would be more than amazed if they got involved in plugging an ASW gap for the UK... the battle of the Atlantic in WW2, I would suggest, showed Ireland's opinion of helping the UK out during a life and death struggle, anyone banking on their assistance is barking.

Smiter is pretty well spot on. Herc and Merlin - anytime the cards are well and truly on the table this will be seen to be exactly what it is, 100% Bulls**t, unless the plan is to replace each Nimrod with 3 or 4 Hercs and a couple of dozen Merlin. The point is that to the vast majority of the general public, and not a few servicemen I would say, one aeroplane is pretty much as good as another - just as most people probably see nothing wrong sending something like a Scimitar in place of an MBT, or a frigate in place of a DDG. As long as the general public are so easily fooled why bother doing anything else? I bet we'd be pushed to fight the Belgians right now, if it came down to it...

Nimrod MRA.4 update
 

PA4 has now entered the flight test programme, launching for a four hour flight yesterday (18 Dec). See

Nah, piece of p**s...we'd just hop on the old Eurostar...doh

Quote:
On the withdrawal of Nimrod, I do not take these decisions without consulting the Chief of the Air Staff and the First Sea Lord. Other platforms are capable of providing the maritime patrol responsibilities. They have done so before-they are Merlin and Hercules, and we can meet our obligations with those other platforms.

Am I missing something here?? Can anyone enlighten me as to when the last time a Herc got contact on anything submerged? 'cos nobody is seriously suggesting that the Merlin can cover the sort of area a Nimrod can/did are they........are they?? Merlin and Herc are tremendous assets when tasked correctly - this is hardly playing to their strengths.

Thought that ISK may take a hit at the upcoming SDR, but never saw this coming - typical short-sightedness. Do we learn nothing from history - I fear we will never regain our long-range ASW capability (MRA4 - standby for the SDR....), and though there aren't many 'feathers' in Afghanistan, I reckon any of us could name hotspots where, given time, we may rue this decision. And what's a hotspot not...........

Don't be silly. A Merlin far outstretch s the legs of a Nimrod. In fact right now we have Merlins all over the world, far from land conducting Maritime surveillance and UWW operations.

Where's all these Herky Birds coming from to carry out an added mission set?

As to the Irish plugging any gap with two (2), a pair, couple, of aircraft.....well then I must be underestimating something!

You mean to say that someone out there might just be setting up Davros and Bobby No-Mates to make them look so out of touch and insensitive in the public’s eye, that they’ll be completely humiliated and forced to do a 180 on all these latest proposed changes?

Never. That would be like suggesting to the Minister that £20m could be shaved off the MoD’s annual budget if only he were to announce cut-backs in TA training. ;)

sh1t, paddle, creek. Rearrange into a well known phrase or saying. :{

Not the most erudite and meaningful contribution I have made on Pprune but I fear I might blow a blood vessel were I to articulate the depth of feeling regarding this latest betrayal...

vecvechoosiewotsit.................

You really are a troll. There is no way that you can be making statements like you are without either:

1. Trying to wind the good and learn-ed folk of pprune up with your crap

OR

2. Actually believing that some of the claggage that you're writing to be factual.

I think your knowledge of ASW can be written on the back of a postage stamp, in Crayola.

It would be interesting if they decided to try that trick in the late spring of next year, eh?

Ever since the UK became self-sufficient in food and oil, and we ceased to rely on seaborne trade to feed ourselves and provide power and travel, the Royal Navy and the RAF's maritime patrol capability have been redundant. With the end of the cold war, we no longer need airborne early warning. Then there's all this electronic intelligence gathering nonsense.

The Prime Minister is quite capable of committing the army to war without having to rely on intelligence: rest assured that when it comes to saving the world, he knows what is the right thing to do. Its a disgrace that we've wasted so much money on anti-submarine capability, early warning and intelligence gathering for so long when the money was desperately needed for more social workers and expansion of the probation service.

The C130 is quite capable of replacing both the Royal Navy and Nimrod, in fact, with that big bomb bay and the doors that open at the back it would make a really neat bomber and at a pinch, with some sidewinders hung on the wings we could use it for air defence.

Actually, I think his first sentence was about as good as it could get - well done that man, Booker prize material!

So who's next?
 

In fact, I imagine that the MR2 was offered up because it was going to be gone anyway within a few years. They've just grabbed at an OSD and gone "yes, we can move that forward," not thought about it.

So who's next for a cost-cutting early bath? The force multipliers at BZN due out of service during a similar time scale - the first jet off to the knacker's yard early next year followed by another every subsequent 6 months? :(

Then the FJs won't be able to make Vegas (or anywhere else), so hotel and subsistence costs slashed!!! :)

Spock me old mucker......good to hear you are still in the fray......need someone like you to be still in there stirring things. Dont bother with the 1c just bash them with them brows of yours. Hope you are well.
Fergi

But how would we know? They would have to surface and cruise up the Thames to say...oh....errrr.....Big Ben!

It doesn't say what is "adequate" though! Furthermore...

Therefore, all we really need these days is to have an aircraft that can fly to the area (this will be known from the new 406MHz GPS beacons that SARSAT uses and are now mandated) and then has the capability to vector in ships in the area to go to the aid of the survivors. Therefore, if we had some to spare, a Herc could do this quite nicely (and deliver some goodies out the back as well). Also, the E-3D would be ideal for this task - less the dropping of goodies (and I don't mean Graham Garden, Tim Brooke-Taylor and Bill Oddie - although the latter would be a good idea!).

Sadly, it is not SAR that is Nimrod's "raison d'etre" - but we can't talk about specifics on that on here.

The B Word

Agreed, but I'm not sure that anyone is trying to say that it is. It will become apparent though, that the disappearance of the MR2 from the SAR 'toolbox' will have an effect on the country's ability to protect those at sea. I am sure that other assets will bridge the gap in the meantime but you would find it difficult to argue that a cobbled-together solution is as good as, or efficient as the Nimrod can deliver.

As for the "raison d'etre" of which you speak, there is nothing in the cupboard to fill the gap in the same manner. Shout all you like about Merlins, Type 23's and SSN but they just can't do it.