What Are The R.A.F. Regiment For?
 

As one does on Friday afternoons I was reading Arrse where there is a posting in which the majority of people were being extremely rude about the R.A.F. Regiment. I disagreed with much that was said, but it got me thinking. What is the role of the R.A.F. Regiment? I had always assumed that it was “to defend airfield and the assets that go with said airfield”.

I have got to thinking about the matter. Not deeply, but I did start. The more I think about it though, the more I wonder how correct/ accurate I am, and how much has the R.A.F. Regiment role changed since the 1980’s. Am now going to ask a number of questions that I hope can be answered, and shall also make some comments.

1/ Defending an airfield obviously requires deployment away from airfield (e.g. ground to air defence). Up to how far away does this deployment take place? Also this deployment and any replen will necessitate defending. Routes to provide replen will require defending. Position changes will also be needed. This seems to mean that the actual “airfield to defend” is not the airfield at all, but the airfield and much countryside.

2/ Are any materials that are required to be delivered to the station considered as assets that require defending? E.G. POL, food, munitions. If so, at what stage do they become defendable by that station? What about the depots where the materials are stored? Or even the vehicles that are used to deliver them.

3/ Any roads or rail tracks that are required for replen? I presume these must also be defended. To what depth?

4/ Do the R.A.F Regiment utilise any persons (other than R.A.F. Regiment members) at all to defend the boundaries and within the station? Do R.A.F. trades that participate in airfield defence (same as used to done in Tacevals) come under R.A.F. Regiment command and control?

5/ Some R.A.F. units are currently “defended” by Civilians, the army or MOD Plod; at what stage does this situation change, and how? Or do these units continue to operate/ integrate with the R.A.F Regiment in times of need? In fact do the R.A.F. Regiment get involved at all?

6/ There is much I have not said or written. If anyone feels they have relevant comments please make them

Finally; do people consider that the R.A.F. Regiment have sufficient manpower and resources to carry out their role (as it should be). Somehow I do not think so.

I gave up thinking at this point, and have missed much out, but the brain hurted.

Thanks, and have a good weekend.

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/q...tor6528604.jpg

:ok: that should do it......

Taking the piss out of?

Thats a frickin good question. On the whole I have come the conclusion that it is to cruise around Kandahar on WMIKs that could be utilised by proper soldiers.

Having said that, some are fantastic, but let down by the majority who are clinically brainless and full of their own self-importance.

With the best will in the world, the army don't have a clue about aircraft operations - fact.

The RAF Reg are a specialist force that are specifically trained to protect the critical areas around an airfields. They do it very well and not without loss of life. Without them, terry would be sat at the end of the runway with a manpad.

Have some respect.

Firstly, respect to those out there defending us. Thanks fellas - and stay safe.

The bigger question is "would the Army choose to defend airfields if the RAF Regiment were binned" is as unclear now as it was in 1942 when the Wegiment was formed.

IF the Army want to take on these duties, then there is IMHO a very strong argument for transferring the Regiment to the Army. However, if not, then they'd better stay where they are.

And actually, the best possible reason is that without the Rocks then we'd have to have some sort of Army detachment for CCS - and imagine how much fun that's going to be....

S41

Mud Clubber (which I suspect is an actually very accurate pseudonym)

How can you state that "The Army" don't have a clue about aircraft operations? Have you been alongside every regiment when they emplane/deplane from all aircraft in theatre? No, that isn't very likely is it, boy?

Yes, they do a difficult job in protecting airfields from manpads etc but the RAF Regiment are only a small part of a multilayered approach to defence. Important yes, showstoppers, no.

I have had the fortune to witness and be involved in the onload/offload of troops throughout the world from all 3 services and all 3 have had both good and bad amongst them. Don't be such a small-minded fool. You're not indispensable, boy.

Stop Start,

Defending the EFI has cost more than a few lives over the last 18 months. Presumably those who have died flying your aircraft did so 'delivering pies to the EFI'? No, thought not.

Well as a Techie I love the RAF Reg in the early days of my wage packet is bigger than yours and always being picked on as a Techie JT. Only realised the job of the regiment is to gas you once a year. But for many they do actually do a job and when GW1 started so many people ran to reg section asking to get redrilled on chemical drills etc etc . I dont like the RAF regiment they never liked me or anyone else but I give them there credit they do a great job OOA and for most people think of regiment at home on CCS/GDT (wankers) but OOA good lads.Airfield protection , Basrah for one the Reg guys when we were there never let a bad guy in so they done a good job to me , they could have used there larger than life wallets though to shelter us from the mortars but no , they chose to drink coffee in the Efi :ugh:

RAF Regiment , better looked after and respected by the RAF not Army , Army cannot judge a higher pay bracket ever (JAP - 100a -0304 says so )

Some fairly harsh banter fellas:confused:

Having worked alongside the RAF Regt from my early days in Aldegrove, through TELIC and HERRICK I have the upmost respect for the Rocks.

3 Sqn providing security in NI around the airfield.

Excellent refresher training in NBC, Colpro and AR5 procedures in the run-up to Iraq.

Outstanding FP around airfields in Afghanistan - look at the drop in IDFs since they took over from other units.

Understaffed GDT sections who can still provide CCS,IRT,Air FP,Stn Guard Trng,WHT and deployment advice all year round.

Those people who slag them off have obviously no real understanding of the role they provide.

God bless the Rocks who have lost their lives doing exactly what they were asked to do - defend airfields.

Just give them back Rapier and CVRTs!

Rant off:ok:

Having been shelled more than a few times on the ground, all I can do is thank the Regiment for removing the heads of a number of scumbags responsible, with a .357 Laupa magnum....

Having also been on the ground having heard a mine strike that killed 2 of our finest, whilst they were trying to protect aircraft, all I can say is this thread is highly inappropriate. :ugh: The one or two of the lads may, at CCS, come across as knobbers at times, I know they dont particularly like late aircrew, but the service the boots on the ground provide is literally second to none. Those going into airfields without FP I am sure will testify to this. We need an organiszation that focusses on protecting the eggs in the basket, its a job I think they do extremely well.

Next time you are taking 10 shells a day into your airfield, think that that number would be probably multiplied by 10 if it werent for the regiment.

Highly professional war fighters with a wicked sense of humour. I have the utmost respect for them.

Whilst the majority of us dislike IRT, CCS etc, etc. Like it or not the RAF regiment do a thankless task that we should all be gratefull for both at unit level preparing us for Ops and and deployed protecting us on Ops.

Guys keep up the good work!

Most of the RAF Regiment dislike CCS etc too!

I met up with some mates in Stamford yesterday and I reflected that it was good to have the best of all worlds - still be a part of what the Regt is all about but no longer having to pretend to be interested in what the likes of Minigun (can someone increase his cyclic rate of fire so that his brain can catch up with his typing finger?) are saying.

Best wishes to the clinically brainless and self-important out there, the majority of whom allow airborne ballast to safely get their sleep before waking up to ridicule them on the internet.

Per Ardua.

Al R

I don't need to request your permission to express my opinion, neither do I need to express the same opinion as you. In fact, if we were all automons with the same 'party line' it would be a pretty boring world.

I respect your opinions, even when they differ from mine. To paraphrase Voltaire...

'I vehemently disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it'.

Peoples opinions are based on experiences, and everyones experiences will differ. I am out on a limb in guessing your now a civvy, in which case you now exist on second hand information.

Besides, I can't take anyone seriously when they sign off with 'Per Ardua'

Minigun,

I didn't suggest that you asked for my permission, and stop trying to hide behind an intellectual argument that you seem to struggle with. Freedom of speech is a right that comes with responsibilities and if you can't be prepared to defend your position with anything more than an abstract teddy throwing exercise, best stay quiet.

For the record, I hope your attempts at hiding behind the RAF Regiment are better than they are hiding behind a Frenchman. Voltaire never said or wrote what you suggest - rather, Evelyn Hall was summarising the essence of his ethos and over time numpties have perpetuated the myth, trying to make themselves look clever.

Finally, you refer to second hand experience and information. Having served on 2 flying sqns, I wonder how many Regt sqns you've served on?

I'm sure most of the Regt guys will take the majority of this thread as banter, but it is unfair to challenge them through this medium as they won't understand it :ouch: (can't F*** it or fight it, so what's the point eh!)

They have protected me on many OOAs operating from the IPOD. On a few OOAs (ground tour) I have worked with them to protect the IPOD and seen exactly what they do to ensure everyones safety, I guarantee you wouldn't want to change places with them! There was the odd throbber, but there were many more excellent individuals and that goes for most other trades too. Most were top guys doing a hard job, much more arduous than many give them credit for.

Just because it seems nothing is happening, it doesn't mean they are not busy. Unfortunately it's difficult to quantify their success, each day or night without an attack might be due to no EF activity, but just as likely they deterred, observed or engaged them which is seldom broadcast to the masses. Keep up the good work :ok:

On Ops they are 100% focused on their mission, which is not an easy one given the assets. How long would that last if the job went to the Army?

I wouldn't swap places with them, and I wouldn't want to operate without them :ok:.. But they are still wankers when they love gassing you at CCS time :mad:

Being based at a secret Wiltshire air base, I have to say our Regiment flight is fantastic, the training they provide is second to none and delivered in an effective way with some good banter :ok:... Makes IRT etc that little bit more bearable!

RAF Regiment? Too smart for the Army, not smart enough for the real Air Force.

Calm down Al, calm down. It's a joke - a p*ss poor one, but a joke. ;)

F**k me you lot are serious.......

It's Christmas - lighten up!

Without the beloved RAF Reg, I think we really could become the 'civvies in uniform' that a lot of the Army think we are. I feel safer knowing the Reg are training and looking after us for / on deployed Ops.

When it comes to CCS, I may sit there in the gas chamber muttering some of the choicer phrases of the Queen's English under my breath about the git that is clearly enjoying himself far too much for my liking.

But having worked very closely with the Regt on ops in both theatres, I can say that I would rather go to war with them than without them. They know their stuff and have patiently advised me on many occassions so that I can make an informed decision.

That said, I can see both sides of this thread. In the case of those slating the original question as being inappropriate, what are the odds that the very same question is asked of prospective candidates by the Board Members at OASC - why join the Regt when you can join the Army if you want to be an infanteer? From my relatively un-informed persective, would it not be better to think of them not as soldiers or infanteers, but a specialist cadre filling a vital niche role? Thinking in those terms, it would put them alongside other specialist units - Jt NBC Regt, TSW etc all of whom play a vital role which could arguably be carried out by less specialist inf / logs units, but you rarely if ever hear their existence questioned.

But to finish off, I would say consider the following points:

1. If the RAF Regt doesn't have a unique role that can't be carried out by others, why have we recently increased their establishment adding another FP Wg and Field Sqn?

2. As Gen Douhet presciently said "It is easier and more effective to destroy the enemy’s aerial power by destroying his nests and eggs on the ground than to hunt his flying birds in the air". Seems to sum up the situation we have been facing over the past few years and the reason we need the RAF Regt.

3. "Every airfield should be a stronghold of fighting air-groundmen, and not the abode of uniformed civilians in the prime of life protected by detachments of soldiers. It must be clearly understood by all ranks that they are expected to fight and die in the defence of their airfields." Seems that Winston thought there was a role for the professional defence of airfields; shame the current trend for contractorization of the military will probably leave us unable to defend our own airfields these days.

And now having sold my soul in defence of the RAF Regt, I'm going to lie down in a darkened room.

Minigun i will pass that brilliant insight of yours onto my rockape mate who 6 months out of honington was blown out of his landy on his first patrol in theatre, along with his 2 colleagues one of whom was not lucky enough to escape with all his limbs still intact. Maybe next time you should stick you neck in the direct firing line before generalising what work the regt actually do!

Scotty,

several members (one is too many) have been killed or injured on operations. They have my utmost respect for their sacrifice, and their families my deepest condolences, as do the families of the MTD/Engineers and aircrew who have paid the same price.

However, the original poster asked a question which had nothing to do with whether people had been injured. That is a seprate issue which affects numerous trades outside of the RAF Regiment, as well as within.

The question was, what is the RAF Regiment for?

Al R - I don't think there was any teddy throwing. We have differing opinions. I just dont shout you down for expressing yours. The point about Voltaire may well be true....wikipedia will be my next stop.

Anyone who operates from a fixed base which gives the bad guys the initial tactical advantage gets my support, whatever the service or cap badge:ok:

I served for 15 years with the rocks on Rapier and I came to the view that if you can do your job as well and as professionally as they do theirs then you can be justifiably proud of yourself. I made some good mates but you were always a guest, never a member, (a stance that suited both parties I might add). Their esprit de corps sets them apart because whilst the rest of us may banter about which trade/branch is the best they truly believe that they are Gods chosen ones.

Having worked with the RA & REME I think that a serious mistake was made when the SHORAD role was transferred that will only come to light in the heat of combat. Not knocking the Army but there is no history of air awareness and I will always be happier to have an RAF beret (even if styled to absurdity) on the fenceline.

A bunch of knobs at times but top at what they do.

Hey, stopstart, you are right! You know those F*ckers in the congo....

Gents, the fact of the matter is that if there was no role for this outfit they would soon cease to exist. If they they did not produce the goods on a regular basis to the required standard then they would have been given the chop some time ago. If there was any doubt about their reliability or professionalism they would have been binned or merged in the past. The fact that they are growing in size (relatively to the size of the RAF) speaks volumes.

Like our burgeoning cadre of Air Officers?

^^ Any idea how the airfields that you do your approaches on seem so quiet?

Yeah... it's all down to other bugggers efforts.

Never take them for granted.

(Stopstart)


Does that mean you feel stupid after your original post? You definately should.

For what it's worth, I came back from Basra in October. I didn't see the RAF Regt sat outside the EFI in 6 whole months. I DID see many on duty army units in the ECOS though. What's the point then? Pray tell. We all have to have down time.

The RAF Regt did more than their bit in defending the COB through their off base anti MANPAD patrols. As did the RAF Police with their anti IED foot patrols and VCPs OUTSIDE the wire. As did the various army units with their anti terrorist Armoured patrols.

I'm finding this "Anti any trade that isn't aircrew or techie" argument to be pointless, stupid, and frankly embarrassing to the aircrew and techie trades.

Aircrew (and techies alike) would struggle in any given theatre if it were not for the input of all other trades.

For ****'s sake can we stop slagging down the few trades that lose lives looking after you.

If you can't see that it takes more than ATC to get an RAF aircraft down onto the airstrip at a hostile airfield, then you're still a cnut. (Cnuts never change their stripes eh?

IF you are Military aircrew, I hope your next approach over Baghdad is uneventful. Because if it is... that's not by accident you know.

(I could have wished you nastiness, but I won't)

If you die, that's just a shame.

Close brackets after the eh? but I think it conveyed your sentiment.

I am/was calm (wasn't trying to find a parking space yesterday though). I am all up for the craic but Minigun's mawkish efforts to deflect criticism, and to justify his hamfisted 'humour' merely compound his idiocy (just as they did in the discussion about military homelessness the other week).

When we drank a few beers the other day for those 'of us' who won't be seeing Xmas this year, we didn't consider whether or not they were 'in the majority' who were 'clinically braindead'. We remembered them for the fact that they died (in possibly, the same theatre that Mingun derived his opinion) so that he could sleep safely (in order to do his job) and then come back safely to exercise his 'right' to snipe at them from the anonymity of a messageboard. Yes, he does have that right.. but the fact that he feels the need to give in to this overwelming urge, especially at this time of year, marks him out as an individual of true distinction. I wonder if those who quietly protect him in theatre know with how much contempt he regards the majority of them.

Yes, I signed off 'Per Ardua' because I'm proud of my time in the RAF Regiment, and I know what an asset the RAF has on its hands. The UK has no other regular infantry organisation which has spent every year since the end of WW2 on Active Duty at some place somewhere in the world (I think the Royals took 1967 off), and no other infantry unit with such a richness of skills, maturity, experience and ability. Knowing and saying that might mark me out in your book as being faintly ridiculous but on the plus side, I don't think I ever felt the need to walk around with a badge on my arm telling everyone how many hours I spent doing my job either.

So, to put you back inside your comfort zone I've worked something out for you. In the average tour, a 21 year old 'clinically braindead' gunner on his first tour can get posted these days with a 6000 hour badge. As for anyone (clinically braindead or not) who does over 20 years, well.. they'd probably need their own personal Loadmaster to carry all their badges. And no, I don't need Wiki to confirm for me that you're punching above your weight when you're trying to be clever or funny. The people you work with could probably do that for me far more easily.

Per Ardua Minigun, and Happy Xmas. Stay safe. :ok:

Al.

What is this gibberish? a 6000 hour badge? carry all their badges?

I say again, the poster asked a question. I answered it according to my opinion. You have made your opinion clear (apart from the paragraph above).

I, unlike others I grant you, do not hide behind anonymity. I would be prepared to voice any opinion expressed here in person, in fact, I am very likely to.

You on the other hand, are a retired rock ape who is now a shelf stacker for all I know, who feels the need to spend all his time on a military aviation forum telling those still serving what is required from them, and how things are.

Apart from being quite sad, it seems you need to get a life and let go of the military. It's not Germany in the 70's or 80's anymore.

I will express my opinion whether you or any other tw@t like you agrees with it or not. That is the democracy we supposedly protect. You have the right to do likewise, a right you seem to exercise equally well.

For the record, their are things the RAF Regiment do very well. Are they the panacea - no I think there is room for improvement.

Could the Army do it equally well - Yes. Could they do the job better - probably.

Lets not get this out of proportion - Airfield Defence boils down to patrolling, vigilance, gathering and use of local intelligence as well as control of entry - I am pretty sure the Army could cope.

Have a good Xmas Al - but try and talk to some civvy's occasionally.

Hoisted by my own petard I believe.....
 

Touché mon brave, touché.....

Not strictly comparable subjects but touché nonetheless. :ok:

My early New Year's Resolution then is to stick solely to taking the piss in the future. To that end I refer you all back to post #2 of this thread and thence to previous post after that.

Tsk tsk forgot the close bracket and picked up by someone who wrote

I know....and such an easy mistake to make.....:E

Al
Assuming by Royals you mean the Bootys I must correct the quote above.
In 1967 (November IIRC) the Royal Marines were the last to leave Aden, picked up from the beach and then out to waiting RN ships.

RAF Regt were there at times during the "twubbles".

To all in the current sh1tholes, Merry Christmas and stay safe.

s37

Have to say I've read some crap on this site before and have stopped posting because there's so much ill-informed drivel here but MGD's take the biscuit.

a. Who gives a Monkey's what the Army thinks about the RAF Regt? AARSE is like a NAAFI bar on a Sat night when it comes to educated or informed comment. If they had bothered themselves at school or were capable of providing some insightful criticism they wouldn't be in the Army or posting on AARSE.

b. As a current SH bloke who has spent too much time over the last 5.5 yrs in sites protected by our finest Rocks, I would like to disassociate myself with Minigun's derogatory comments on the RAF Regt. I think it was meant so that all of us could be reminded that he works in Afgh sometimes. Boys (Rocks that is), the rest of the SH world think you're all great, and your EVCP drills are top too.

c. Minigun is a knob of the highest order who has been fighting the Muj/TB since he was a child. He is out of the AIDU, Silsoe Sid, WEBF, Walt mould of poster. PPrune is only here for him to berate all those who are not chippy CH-47 crewmen (he works in Afgh you know?) who feel able to shamefully decry the efforts of brave men who protect our airfields.

MGD - do your self a favour Chum. Have a look at the photos of the RAF Regt lads KIA'd in the last couple of years in both theatres and re-read your first post, then stop trying to defend yourself and apologise to the RAF Regt readers and trhen the forum. Then change your name and slink away.

T**T!

Merry Christmas, from a desert site defended by Rockapes.

SP

PS. If the whole thing's a fishing trip, then you got me!