Right,

it's Christmas and this will be my last post.

What are the RAF Regiment for?

That was the poster's question, and a perfectly valid one. It is only by constantly questioning and evaluating that we evolve as a society. The military should be no different.

Another thread highlights CAS's intention for the RAF to absorb the AAC and FAA. Ithink this is wrong, but welcome the debate.

All trades and branches need to question how they do things, and whether they could do them better. I may not like someone suggesting that crewmen could do things better, but I would welcome the debate, instead of stifling it.

There have been threads on disbanding the RAF, with lively debate from all three services. What goes around comes around.

The fact that members of a trade have died in pursuit of their duties should not be used to stifle debate, otherwise Aircrew would be in an unassailable position, and we know they are not, nor should they be.

I find it rather puzzling that people who have used this as a stick to beat any debate to death in this thread are willing to make statements such as


Quite a few Loadmasters have died of late, and many more NCA. However, there have been no cries of 'foul' from the aircrew trades, as they know it is immaterial to the debate.

It does display double standards though.

Finally, I did say in my first post that some were 'clinically brainless', and anyone at a secret Hampshire airbase can instantly think of a role model. I also said some were fantastic, again, anyone can think of a role model for that statement.

Differing experiences will produce differing opinions, all of which are equally valid. Expressing those opinions results in debate, which in turn assists the process of evolution.

You can post any reply you like to this post, but I won't read it as it's Christmas, and debate seems to have gone out of fashion here.

Al R - If you really have to have the last word, make it a positive one.

Merry Christmas to all, especially those in-theatre of all services and trades.

Further to my last, I've just spotted Laarbruch72's post! Genius! Just back from Basra eh? Well done that man - I imagine you must be the first ever! If you can't handle a bit of gentle piss taking then I'm afraid it's time to hang your spurs old man.

Fingers crossed for the ole next approach into Baghdad though! Exciting stuff....:rolleyes:

Cheers Shack,

I remember a recruiting ad for the Booties, which was made up of about 40 small boxes, each box with detail of a campaign in a given year since WW2 that they were involved in. There was one year blanked out, which said; '19 (whatever):we took the year off'. Very cool. Even getting to try and join the RM was a nightmare - at the time their recruiters were in a small office above the RN mob and to get to them you had to climb some stairs at the bottom of which was a bar that you had to do 15 pull ups on, before you were allowed the honour of even climbing the stairs. It took me about a month and when I did get into his office, he told me they were full. :{

Minigun,

You refer to what the OP posed, so address it and have the balls to stop pretending that your ignorance and arrogance was a moral statement about enshrining your right to free speech. In my career as shelf stacker, I got to see all manner of stupidity justified as FoS, which of course, is what the right to be a twonk in public ultimately is. And long may it continue - it makes identifying twonks easier by not driving them underground. And your attempt to be taken seriously at the end by talking about CAS and FAA, and evolving as a society made me smile - so perhaps I did overreact by taking you as seriously as I did. Apologies. :)

I do hope that you are a man of your word......
 

Quote

"Right,

it's Christmas and this will be my last post."


:ouch::ouch:

What Are The R.A.F. Regiment For?
 

Having served in the RAF for over 30 years I have a profound and deep respect for this proud corps of guys known as the RAF Regiment. Brilliant on the RAFG Harrier Force and SH Force and unseen but did a fantastic job in Northern Ireland and well proven in recent combat on Ops TELIC and HERRICK. I have heard senior Army cdrs many times wish they has such well led and highly motivated forces. The RAF Regt do a great job defending us and our airfields and even while doing CCS at HQ Air I found the "Rocks" good value, with great banter to us "Guins" yet getting some really useful stuff over such as first aid (can be used anywhere) and military skills. Yet they recognised few of us were experts at skill-at-arms but with a little encouragement they could make us reasonably competent. Having served twice in Iraq I thank the RAF Regt for my excllent training; giving me the skills and confidence to defend myself and my comrades. Hats off to the excellent and brilliant RAF Regiment, long may this elite corps be proud to fight beside the rest of us in the RAF. We do appreciate what you do. God help us if we waited for the Army to do this role, we would still be waiting as the Army don't do airpower but bull**t!

Piran

Spot on....:D

J_J

Lots of posts since the original questions, not sure if they've been answered yet though. I shall try.

1. - Distance depends on the ground, tac situation etc. Suffice to say that we aim to carry out the 'fight' away from the defended loc as much as possible. Too late when the en is at the wire. Can't defend routes, the areas too big, that's why we're getting hammered with IEDs. As far as we're concerned it's ALL about the countryside.

2. - OPSEC.

3. - Current AO's are airbridge.

4. - Yes.

5. - RAF Regt Sqns are not routinely used to protect UK airbases.

What are the Rocks for? To make sure this does not happen at a UK DOB/COB/MOB/JOB etc (including help covering the a55es of those in command!)

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Italian sentenced for Iraq lapse

Didn't the army do a really good job at defending airfields in Crete in WWII? - Oh no they didn't did they....... that's one of the many reasons the RAF Regt are doing the job now and will continue to do it for quite a while yet.

They do a great job in supporting the operational airforce (they do prepare Airmen and women very well for deployment) but please could you get a proportion on things. You are like the pioneers of the RLC guarding high value logistic locations not at the spearhead like the Parachute Regiment.

Actually, I am neither.

I must say that I'm sure that MGD is very much in the minority in the Chinook force that I spent a fair bit of time working in/with, both during my last tour in the RAF and during my many years on TSW.
Whilst as in all branches of the military there are a few nobbers in the RAF Regiment (thankfully mainly in 2 Sqn for ease of avoidance) the majority are as hard working and well-trained as any infantryman (though perhaps not as any Rifleman ;o)) I have ever met, though unlike infantrymen they understand that a helicopter is not just a Land Rover with a fan on top and might require a bit more protection/respect.
The RAF Regiment staff on TSW were perhaps the best I've ever known, having the patience to turn a light blue stacker into someone who wouldn't require the constant sheparding of one of their squadrons whilst deployed somewhere dodgy and often these days, sandy. A task that is not always straightforward.
My hat is doffed to those fine chaps who keep the sky safe for those big, fat easy targets to land at foreign airfields and have that unenviable task to train tradesmen to have a slight resemblance to servicemen.

RAF Regt might be a little more 'air aware' than you give them credit for. Army do the same job?

The RAF Regiment has done a fantastic job in the past few years and have probably got their smug captions fully on. Everything they have bleated on about for years wrt force protection has become reality and they are in huge demand. After all, even one single MANPADS would be bad news.
Their seniors now have the ear of grown-ups at MOD, PJHQ and Air Command and they are relishing it large.
Credit to them for the predeployment training as well

CCS is still **** though

Nursey,

If I could just set the record straight. When you refer to proportion, do you mean size? Accepted, the reason you won't find the RAF Regiment deployed similarly is that it doesn't deploy in a similar manner and in terms of punch, we're not a cudgel. But in terms of infanterring ability I never came across Loggies when I did my Jungle Warfare Instructors Course, when I spent time doing TACP with (as was) 5 Airborne Brigade or a couple of other things either.

But diversity and breadth of experience is what is required of our paymasters - you will never find an infantry organisation within the UK that offers what the RAF Regiment does. Although The Royal Marines face similar demands, they deploy in serious numbers and as a fully integrated organisation. Our ORBAT (or whatever its called now) does not allow that, or Battle Group sized deployments, but if deploying by parachute with II Sqn RAF Regiment into Sri Lanka, getting over the Berms with CVR(T) first on Granby, wading ashore on the first wave in Corporate, deploying with helicopters or PROPERLY defending places like Akrotiri (who remembers the mid late 80s out there?), I think you'll find that the RAG Regiment gunner is more than able to hold his ground (metaphorically and literally).

In the early 90s there was short sighted talk of merging with the police. If god forbid, that had gone ahead, we would not even be having this debate now about Gunners mincing about in Oakleys as part of the Short Range Desert Group. The army would simply have said 'Yes, I know we said we could do it, but that was 4 years ago. Sorry - but you'll have to trawl around for 3000 tradesmen, take them away from their primary role and start filtering them around.'. And frankly, if you want to be defended by people who invariably find CCS the summit of military hardship, crack on.

I don't think the Regiment is being smug, its just too bloody busy at the moment.. although getting our stable belt back would be nice and f#ck off some guins at the same time. ;)

Wading ashore with the first wave on Op Corporate? Don't think so..

Happy to be corrected - it was May 24. Apologies.

I bet you anything it was more than probably the first wave that day though.

An infantry battalion is equipped, organised and trained for all phases of land warfare, including limited and manoeuvre warfare and protracted offensive operations over long distances and away from firm bases, in conjunction with other arms (armour, artillery, air etc).

The RAF Regiment's main purpose, for which they are equipped, organised and trained, is to defend static installations (air bases etc) and their approaches. At that they are outstandingly effective. So they should be because their role is relatively limited.

There is no question that they should be part of any other service than the RAF, who operate the bases they exist to defend. It would be wasteful to task infantry battalions with the RAF Regiment's task. The current situation is ideal and needs no tinkering.

The RAF Regiment has done a fantastic job in the past few years and have probably got their smug captions fully on. Everything they have bleated on about for years wrt force protection has become reality and they are in huge demand. After all, even one single MANPADS would be bad news.
Their seniors now have the ear of grown-ups at MOD, PJHQ and Air Command and they are relishing it large.
Credit to them for the predeployment training as well

+1 Here.:ok:

Well someone likes us
 

“Joint Force Harrier”

Written by Commander Ade Orchard about a Royal Navy Fighter squadron based a Kandahar.

The Extract starts on page 108:-

In truth the RAF Regiment had really got to work on the threat from rockets. Although the airfield was subjected to attacks for the whole of the time we were in theatre – and probably still is – the accuracy of the attacks got worse and worse as time went on, because the Taliban insurgents were pushed further and further away from the perimeter. And for that the RAF Regiment was entirely responsible.

Anyone who has read anything about the Afghanistan campaign will be familiar with the major forces taking part: 3 Para, The Royal Marines and others. But the RAF Regiment guys were the real unsung heroes during our det.

Before they arrived to take over the force protection of the airfield, the task seemed to have been approached less proactively. A swift and violent retaliation to Taliban attacks was always guaranteed, but there were fewer patrols outside the wire. And it was these that made it more difficult for the Taliban to set up their rocket batteries within range.

Most of the rocket attacks came from the sector that lay to the North-east of the airfield, with just a handful from the South. The reason for this was clear to us: Highway one, the main road that runs from one end of the country to the other, passed right through tat area allowing attackers an easy route both in and out.

But all that changed as soon as the RAF Regiment took over. Their policy was completely different to that of their predecessors. They identified where the attack were coming from and began mounting aggressive patrols outside the wire in those areas, and succeeded in pushing their safe perimeter so far out that the Taliban were having to fire their rockets from extreme range, with very little chance of even hitting the airfield itself, let alone any specific targets on it.

The guys from the RAF Regiment achieved their success not only by their patrolling, which often located rocket batteries before the Taliban had a chance to fire them – the rockets were normally fired by remote control – but also by having excellent sniper teams.

There’s a misunderstanding about snipers. Most people seem to think that their job is just to go out into the badlands and kill people, but the primary role of a sniper team is usually reconnaissance and intelligence gathering. In Afghanistan, in particular, they were watching for significant changes in the pattern of life in the villages and hamlets, because that was often the first clue that the Taliban might have moved in. They observed their targets through telescopic sights, but the fact that the sight was attached to a long range sniper rifle was almost coincidental – it didn’t automatically mean they were tasked with killing the people they were observing.

At Kandahar the snipers went out into the area and dug themselves in for days at a time, initially just watching the activity around them, acting a surveillance teams, and radioing their reports back to the Regiment on the airfield. Only when they’d observed all they needed to would they then pick off the individual Taliban as they were setting up their rocket batteries, well before they were able to fire their missiles. And, even then, killing the men setting up or firing the weapons was only part of it, because these were believed to be very low ranking insurgents, given the most dangerous jobs. Whenever possible, the snipers preferred to target the people who gave the orders or directed the preparation of the weapons.

Once this operation got underway the numbers of rocket attacks on the airfield dropped sharply’ and eventually almost stopped. It was an excellent demonstration of proactive force protection and, once the RAF Regiment took over, most of us at Kandahar slept a lot better knowing they were out there.

Counter – battery fire was, without doubt, one of the most impressive aspects of the RAF Regiment’s considerable repertoire of skills. As the name suggests, the tactic is return fire directed at a rocket battery or gun that is firing into the defended area. I saw it used several times, but one occasion in particular sticks in my mind. The base was again the target of a rocket attack, but while the rockets were still in the air an RAF Regiment mortar team responded, firing their rounds at the location they’d calculated the rockets had been launched from.

When a reconnaissance party went out to check the site the following day, they found the launchers exactly where they’d expected. They also found that one of the mortar rounds had landed within two feet of one of the launchers, and the other two at distances of about twelve feet and twenty feet. If any Taliban had been at the site when the mortar bombs landed, they would certainly have been killed. There were no bodies at the site, which was not surprising, as the Taliban invariably removed their dead and injured comrades, and we also knew that most rocket attacks were initiated by timing circuits.

This remarkable speed of response and staggering accuracy was down to the high tech gear they used. The RAF Regiment mortar teams identified the location of the battery that fired the missiles, and a high speed computer then calculated the trajectory required by their weapon to return fire.

Thank you
 

To ALL the Rocks out there:

Thank you for the training you have given us

Thank you for watching over us in dark and dangerous places

Where ever you are in the world, Keep Safe

:ok::ok:

Aww you are sweet - Thanks :)

Thank You All
 

Good evening all,

I must apologise for not having responded sooner. I feel I must also apologise for the can of worms I seem to have opened. I honestly did not intend to start a discussion that has such strength of conviction from so many. I am genuinely interested in what role the R.A.F. Regiment might have in this day and age.

I would like to thank those of you who have answered some of my questions. I would also like to thank all who have replied. It is always interesting to hear a number of points whether one agrees with them or not.

hval.

So, hval, what exactly have you learned?

Had a couple of mates join the Rocks, one as an Hofficer the other a gunner.
For both of them it was a conscious choice, they could have gone into other trades.

My Gunner pal was mad keen to join 2 sqn and worked hard to make the grade and get through the selection course. All the way through he showed utter contempt for the rest of the RAF !

Once on Squadron he settled down and took a more realistic view of life and refelected that some of his colleagues were a$ES, he had a job to do and that was defending airfields. This took on more importance in the late 80s when the IRA stepped up its operations in the UK. Suddenly he was training all ranks and guarding bases across the UK, (this scenario may repeat itself but not with a threat from the Irish community).

Sadly he passed away at a young age due to illness but loved the Rocks first and RAF as an afterthought.

This doesn't detract in any way from the other services deployed but only to serve as an example of the type of individuals that join the Rocks.

Thoughts and wished for a peaceful & safe Xmas and New Year wherever deployed.

Do the Rock Apes port MP5 and do CSAR?
 

Quickie :cool:

Do the Rcok Apes port exotic hardware such as MP-5/7 and can carry out CSAR tasks like the USAF PJs and even assist in hostage rescue?

The Merlin Force - or 28 Sqn as it was back then - fully validated its JPR role, including the use of their (at the time) organic Regt section. IIRC never saw them carrying anything other than standard issue weapons, and the UK green forces' JPR capability was just that - a standard JPR capability - not a full on USAF PJ capability.

I believe I can bring a fairly unique perspective to this discussion. For those who cannot surmise from my nickname the "Airborne" comes from my time spent on II Sqn. RAF Regiment and the "Aircrew" comes from my time as an ALM on 33 Sqn.

Statements such as "brain dead" to describe Gunners are patently ignorant of the facts. When I went to the CIO I was told that I could have any trade I wanted. The look of shock on the chap's face was quite the picture when I said I wanted the Regiment. At Swinderby OC PSF(?) was equally surprised when, having spent the better part of an hour trying to sell me on the idea of a commission, I informed him that I had no desire to be an officer. Upon arrival at Catterick I found several Gunners who were equally well or, in some cases, better qualified academically than myself who had also chosen the same course.

That having been said, yes there are Gunners who are not "the sharpest knives in the drawer". But that's the same in any trade and I can assure you all that there were ALM's, AEOps, AEng's and, yes, Pilots who would have been easily shown up intellectually and academically, not to mention common sense wise, by Gunners I served with.

Yes, Gunners look down on the rest of you. Why? For much the same reason Percy despises you. Because I wish I had a pound for every tradesman I heard tell me that they only joined for a trade and never considered the possibility of going to war. That mindset is an anathema to a Gunner who, much like an infantryman, joined to "close with the enemy and kill him". Why do you think Gunners take such pleasure in gassing you and making your lives a misery? It's because, after all the crap they have to hear about being brain dead etc. they can gas you and watch a large proportion of you cry like girls about it. But you only got gassed annually, we were gassed monthly and had "respirator runs" that had us wear 35lbs of CEFO and a 9lb rifle while running 1 1/2 miles wearing a NBC suit and a respirator every Friday afternoon, rain or shine.

But then, from the other side, you'll find that the "greener" a tradesman is, (the more they operate from the field), the more they understand and appreciate the Rocks and, funnily enough, the more the Rocks respect them. Many here have thanked the Rocks for the training they have provided, and that will be appreciated I can assure you. For those that complain about it: You need to remember the Rocks are trying to prepare you for the most frightening, confusing and mind numbing experience you may ever face. It's an extremely difficult task because there is no exercise that even comes close to simulating the the reality... So the worst they can do is mess with you. Equate it if you will to your survival training. Your instructors didn't put you through the stress of an actual ejection or crash because they can't, so they dump you in the middle of nowhere and make you march up hill and down dale for the first day, (which is probably not what you would do right off the bat). The idea was to tire you and disorient you as best they could. They were just messing with you...:}


As to the question "Does the Regiment have a role?" Absolutely. The Army does not have the desire nor the skill sets required to properly defend something like an airfield. Could they acquire the skills? Of course, but there is an attitude issue that would mean the job would be being done reluctantly, ('cos they all hate the crabs who are really just a bunch of civvies in blue). The Gunner joins knowing what his role will be and he does it willingly and with pride.

Lastly, before any of you put any stead in the mental meanderings of MGD please remember he's only a Chinook crewman and is, therefore, basically a glorified "trolley dolly" who is only allowed in the cockpit to bring the butty boxes... http://www.hqrafregiment.net/images/smilies/fishing.gif

We had a SNCO Rock and family move in as neighbours to my wife's ancient parents, 15 miles away. What a blessing! Apart from cutting their grass and fixing things he evacuated them well before the fire engines arrived (1am one night), and was in action well before the medics arrived (midnight another night) when Ma in Law fell - fatally, as it sadly transpired.

I dropped his big boss a line which ended - My reason for writing is to ask if you could arrange for this letter to be attached to XX’s Personal File in order that his conduct ‘out of uniform’ won’t go unnoticed by the RAF.

Rocks? A1! :ok::ok:

Apologies, come to this rather late.

They do look rather spiffing on ceremonial duties and I don't think I'd argue with the bigger chaps in the mess... :ok:

The question that is the title of this thread has occasionally crossed my mind, just out of curiosity. Why aren't they Army, because they look like 'em and run around with guns etc?!?

It's easily answered:

1. Peacetime. An irreplacable link at the Stn level between those in the more blunt occupations and the demands of the *ahem* sharper end of warfare. You could, in theory, have Army rotated through that role, but that would not be popular or successful - not guaranteed of getting posts filled, culture clash, lack of understanding. etc The operational demands faced by all personnel have increased enormously since the Cold War and RAF Regt fulfils an invaluable training role.

2. Wartime. Offensive and defensive ground operations in support of RAF operations, described in more detail by those who know far more than I do, based around safeguarding an operating base. A RAF detachment wouldn't *really* want to have a random Army rifle company foisted upon it.

There's all the banter as well, but respect tends to be mutually earned and a little bit of interest and respect for someone else's role ensures a happy relationship outside the Respirator Testing Facility.

Long may the RAF Regt continue. Not quite as famous as the Royal Marines, but a only few hundred more years to go. Per Ardua, indeed!

What Have I Learned
 

Evening Burning Bush.

A good question. What have I learned.

1/ Rocks appear to be divisive.

2/ The tasks that the R.A.F. Regiment carry out does appear to have been upgraded, and not necessarily relevant to what they are supposed to do

3/ Tactics listed/ inferred appear to have improved through experience (unfortunately).

4/ Am shocked that R.A.F. Regt. no longer appear to provide defence to UK airfields

5/ It appears Rapier no longer is used. What is used instead?

6/ R.A.F. Regt. Officers and NCO's must now think up a level from previous years (from local to tactical).

7/ They still seem to be as brave as when I had the privilege to meet some of them on a number of occasions.

Well said Airborne Aircrew.

As a ground tradesman I actually enjoyed any training I received from the Rocks and did appreciate their guidance; even the annual gassing etc. It was only done to sharpen-up our drills!

I would have liked to have had even more training from them; We should have been allowed to do much more firearms training than we did. I was only ever trained to fire the 7.62mm SLR, I would have loved to have trained to use a pistol or GPMG etc.

But then, I always thought I should be a soldier first and a specialised tradesman second!

Airborne Aircrew

Surprised it took you so long to join the discussion - too busy fighting the cause over on ARRSE!;) Not that I am a soldier but I am sure there are many such individuals who cruise this (and that) board who would ask the question (which may be thread drift..) if

why did he join the Royal Air Force? With the main reason/task for the existence of the Regiment (certainly in the last 20 odd years) being defence of static, immobile Air Bases and its immediate surroundings (granted there is a small percentage that are now part of the SFSG [or whatever its latest name is]) aren't your gunners (of all educational levels) going to be VERY frustated at the task given (when they discover what it is:E)? And how did all those posted to Rapier/SHORAD units reconcile with the lack of "closing with the enemy". Enemy closing on them perhaps ....

Don't get me wrong - I think the Regiment do a very good job of what is expected of them. You are also right to say that the Army and the RM would not want to cover your role if you were disbanded.

Not after a flaming session - this is more out of curiosity (and education!)

"Surprised it took you so long to join the discussion - too busy fighting the cause over on ARRSE!"

Oh how sad it is when some, on entering civvy street just cant seem to let it go :sad:

hval, it would appear you still have some learning to do in this area. And I say that in the nicest possible way.

Normally I would now attempt to take you a stage further in your quest for enlightenment;), however, I fear this thread is now in danger of slipping into the usual (ARRSE type) profile for this subject.

PM if you like.

Off to the Pub in a bit.....I may post later :E

Fair questions... When I joined, (1979), I did so with the specific intention of going to II Sqn. which I did. I never guarded/defended an airfield other than Aldergrove, (which, I would suggest is a slightly different situation). My time was spent defending the Harrier Force and was done from the field and we moved quite regularly - in war we would have moved much more often.

Aggressive patrolling, (which is what Regiment field squadrons do), is quite specialized and more challenging that one might think. It's actually quite easy for a small force to infiltrate any given area so it takes a high level of skill from what is, after all, a very small force to locate the enemy. There is a lot of understanding of how an enemy works that allows Gunners to find said enemy. It's far from frustrating except when the enemy "wins".

Many who joined wanted to go to the SHORAD sqns and they often got their wish. Different kind of fighting, different kind of Gunner in many cases. I know that over on RockNet you'll find quite a clear distinction between the field Gunners and the Rapier Gunners and those field Gunners who were posted to Rapier pretty much unanimously did not like their time in SHORAD. Conversely, those Rapier Gunners who were posted to field Sqns. fairly universally seemed to dislike the experience. At that time the Regiment was somewhat divided between field/CVRT and Rapier.

I'm still a little uncertain as to why SHORAD was given to the RA and can only surmise that TPTB decided that in the currents climate the threat from LL attack by enemy fighters/bombers against airfields was slight so LLAD was no longer required. One questions the wisdom of removing the skill set for the short term threat without acceptance that sometime down the road the threat which they currently deem insignificant may again become serious... :ugh:

Seldom: You make me laugh. You prattle on about how people who have left "can't let go" and how, when you retire you won't be back. I have two things to say to you. Firstly, the only difference between us is that you seem to think that because I'm no longer serving I have nothing relevant to say whereas even though you are still serving you rarely have anything relevant or intelligent to say. Secondly, please, please, if you are offered early retirement grab it ASAP so we don't need to listen to your puerile chatter any longer. :D Now, trot on back to harassing your subordinates which, the consensus indicates, is the one thing you are really good at...

I don't seam to recall the RAF Regt having armour on Granby or being in the Vanguard. That was done by REAL soldiers. RLC went through the Berms in unarmoured trucks carrying supplies much closer to the front line than the regt ever was.
Have sat and listened to some of the regts Kn0bs going on about how they are on power with the RM's/Para's but when they walk into the usual trap about what their actual role is and which army units have a similar Job description it boils down to the Loggies Pioneer regiment (who are a dam sight more flexible being able to do light building work, drive MHE/Plant, run the mortuary etc etc etc)
Yes the army do see helecopters as a truck with a fan on top but thats what they are to most troops a way of moving from A-B or getting kit from A-B as long as they are available and arrive on time without much hassel troops are happy to let those tasked with looking after them do their Job. Why do troops have problems maybe training issues maybe by the time they're comming to use them they have an awful lot more things on their minds.


As to idea of CAS to merge AAC and FAA into the RAF has been tried before in 1920/30's and set naval avation back a decade. CAS should look at providing the Army and Navy with the support they need as opposed to empire building

Nurse, you seem to be in favor of degrading this thread into a typical ARRSE thread, but then again you are in the Army so can be forgiven.

Your history/memory needs a bit of an upgrade -

1 Sqn RAF Regt did have Armour (CVRT), Scorpions and Spartans on Op Granby. As they crossed into Iraq with 1(BR) Arm Div as the forward reconnaissance screen for the Division, that would put them closer to the front than your so called British Army's REAL soldiers!

Never forget the British Army did have the job of Airfield Defense prior to the RAF Regt having it. But alas the British Army made such a c0ck up of it, the Regt was formed. ;)

RAF Regt were quite far forward as part of the JNBC teams in Granby as well.



Must be a first - ex-mover defending the Regt!