Blackjack Evades UKADGE/QRA
 

Oooops....

Mind you, then number of times I got dragged out of bed after a night's QRA becuase their lordships weren't happy. The coverage up north ain't great without Int. Even in the 80s they did a surprise "attack". Pair popped up 100nm from Polestar, Benbecula and Saxa on a co-ordinated attack and then headed home; we scrambled but never caught them. We reckoned they'd gone over the pole in radio silence then headed south. No chance of spotting them.

Nothing changes. Won't stop heads rolling and hats on interviews though I suspect.....

p.s. Did we catch on the way home, or just do a tailchase?

Torygraph: Russian jet flies within 90 seconds of Hull
A Russian nuclear bomber managed to get within 90 seconds of Hull in a mock attack as RAF radars failed to pick it up.

The supersonic Blackjack changed course 20 miles from UK airspace, it has been reported. The jet was picked up on RAF radars but only after it had turned back.

Critics of the Government’s cuts in defence spending say that they have left the country at risk. Four years ago four squadrons of Jaguar and Tornado F3 fighters were slashed from the RAF’s books. In January it emerged that the Ministry of Defence will have to cut its budget by an extra £1.5 billion a year over the next three years, leaving the three armed forces vying with each other for the money. The RAF is also expected to lose two of its frontline Tornado GR4 ground attack squadrons as part of cuts to existing forces.

A senior RAF pilot told The Sun: “The Russians made us look helpless. The Blackjack could have got even closer. It was a disaster — it basically gave the Russians the green light to fly wherever they want.” Ministry of Defence officials confirmed the incident, but said the RAF had a “multilayered” approach to detecting and deterring enemy jets. A spokesman said in a statement: “We are satisfied we have the flexibility to launch as many aircraft as the situation requires.”

You need to read the other version of this story for the full effect:

THE SUN TELLS IT STRAIGHT

Thats journalism right there folks. :D

Reminds me of Robin Williams' Muammar Gaddafi impersonation;

"You cross this line....you die",

Ok, "You cross this line....you die",

Ok, "You cross this line....you die",

:}

Good time to get rid of Rapier then:hmm:

"We have a multi layered detection system" Yes Radar when it's too late, visual to confirm it's bomb doors are open, then aural for the BANG.

What we don,t have is a multi layered response, relying totally on fixed wing(5-6 minutes) defence. Why are we the only country in NATO without an effective SAM system????????????

The point I was making was even in the 80s before any cut backs they Russians could do it any time they wanted. Another 3-4 squadrons and more radar sites wouldn't make a ha'peth of difference.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...rnet/zxzxz.jpg

I thought the whole idea of EuropHoon, AWACS etc was effective AD?

Oh, of course then came Options. The Russiand looked on in amazement as we rolled over and trusted them not to be a threat anymore. No. Of course they wouldn't be - they said so.....:rolleyes:

But the excuse of 'overstretch' can hardly extend to UK QRA - it's not as though the EuropHoons are doing much now that the air show season is over.

Mind you, whether the ageing AAR force with its creaky old museum pieces could have launched in support is a moot point...:uhoh:

With any luck this might have come as a wake up call to the spineless NuLabor and the current MoD 'leadership' - or should I say 'Chief Executives of the UK Historic Aircraft Flight'?

But then again, it would only have taken another 90 sec to wake up 'Two Jags'.....:E

Russians drop two nuclear weapons on Hull and do £100 Million pounds of improvements.:ok:

Would anyone miss Hull?

Hull is home to one of the classic universities don't you know.........(Lt George) :O

Now, that is fast.....

mileandahalf i think you know what i meant, and that wasn't Rapier downing a Blackjack at 29nm. With the North Lincs hills and line of site i doubt any system could regardless of it's published range. And of course it would be outside of our waters/airspace.:rolleyes:

I chased a supersonic target north-eastwards in the 70's until I VERY NEARLY ran out of fuel (Thank you tanker crew:ok:). Luckily I gave up the fruitless pursuit in time despite 'orders' - but heard no more of that:).

I feel desperately sorry for the Typhoon. No threat to our airspace against which to prove itself and no obvious opportunity to unleash it's A-G potential. A veritable warlord spawned in a time of unrivalled peace.

Right, that will be ..... a grand total of 4 QRA jets then!

Typhoon QRA
 

BEagle,

Beating up on Typhoon as a QRA platform misses the fundamental point. QRA does not sit on CAP 24/7 waiting for a target to appear in its AI radar; it is scrambled and vectored toward the target by ground-based or airborne air surveillance radars linked in to the national command and control system. If you want 24/7 QRA CAP, there is justification for 232 Typhoons after all, assuming we could ever find the crew to fly and maintain them!

SO

No ****, Sherlock!

I did quite a few years on Q both on the F4 and on the VC10K and have a reasonable idea of how well it worked in the 1980s....

But when Tanker standby was resurrected in the late 1990s, it was obvious that the lessons we'd learned a decade earlier had all been forgotten. I hope that things have improved since - but whether people can scramble VC10s from being fast asleep 12 miles off base to airborne in 40 minutes, or 7 minutes crewroom to airborne these days I wouldn't like to guess.

Enough TypHoons will do the interception task, but a decent AD radar system and Int assessment is vital for the detection task - as are sufficient serviceable tankers!

Well put, we wouldn't want to upset our main energy supplier would we!
Best we all start calling each other comrade.

It`s all right,it was just a gas pipeline patrol..

Shouldn't have drawn down all the CRCs. I'd have picked it up on the night shift, honest! :}

I remember an infamous incident when the southern CRC had tracked such an intruder and hadn't briefed the northern CRC the next day! The rather pleasant and normally restrained Staish went ballistic! Happy days......

I would like to think that in future the MoD will offer the statement that we do not scramble QRA for every peacetime intrusion.

This would, in effect, deny the Russians the opportunity to test our air defences and, at the same time, let the spineless economists off the political hook.

This would, in effect, deny the Russians the opportunity to test our air defences and, at the same time, let the spineless economists off the political hook

That would, in reality, also deny the RAF the opportunity to practice, test and improve its air defenses against a real Russian air attack.

Wonder if France had that air defense doctrine in 1939?



.

No it would not. We would react as we wished and when we wished - provided we detected them, of course.

Time to get the ROC back and stick them on the rigs off the coast..... :ok:

No doubt the ruskies will be flaunting their Tu-160s and 95's next week up off Scotland too....

"No it would not. We would react as we wished and when we wished - provided we detected them, of course," said Adm. Kimmel in the autumn of 1939.

It seems to me that Britain's basic air defense problem isn't reacting to a threat, or the quickness thereof. Instead, what is shocking is the apparent lack of radar coverage to the north and east of the home islands.

Or maybe air defense radar coverage is much better than this recent incident indicates, but your MoD is keeping the good performance under their hats so as to keep the Rooskies guessing. I'm sure that's the case, aren't you?

:0]

Yes, we are not giving any of our capabilities away except those we have already sacrificed on the altar of socialism.

I would like to think that in future the MoD will offer the statement that we do not scramble QRA for every peacetime intrusion.

See, it's OK. Your MoD is already following that policy. Those Tupolev bombers were detected while they were far away from the shores of G.B. The MoD just does'nt want to let 'em know that they know, understand?

SAM
 

Lets build more Bloodhounds!
RAF North Coates 85 Sqn B Flight

You see all sorts of stuff west of Stornoway! ;)

Funny that, whilst we were all looking West, the Blackjack swans (sorry) in from the East. Almost like they planned it.

Suprise Suprise!
 

No not really, the number of military radars in the UK has been cut and cut over the past few years. Remember Saxa, Faeroes, Trimingham, Hopton, Ty Croes, Bishops Court to name but a few! I suppose it came as a bit of a shock, but shouldn't have - the Russians know all the weak points and all they have to do is stop sqwarking. I hope this serves as a wake-up call and money is found to replace what we have got before it is too late, then we can look at plugging some of the gaps created over the past 20 years.

AonP

Interesting that the two Blackjacks that visited Venezuela in a highly publicized fashion did not appear in any photographs taken by either NATO or Russia on their outbound or return trips across the Atlantic.

Quoe
No not really, the number of military radars in the UK has been cut and cut over the past few years. Remember Saxa, Faeroes, Trimingham, Hopton, Ty Croes, Bishops Court to name but a few! I suppose it came as a bit of a shock, but shouldn't have - the Russians know all the weak points and all they have to do is stop sqwarking. I hope this serves as a wake-up call and money is found to replace what we have got before it is too late, then we can look at plugging some of the gaps created over the past 20 years.

Reply
I agree, Bring back the ROC on the platforms.

Or a QRA satellite base in Norway would be a bit closer to the Russians.

When Leeming finally goes where will the QRA on 25 end up?

Bet a 'Lightning' would have had a good run at the Blackjack.:D

It's almost as if they are taunting us - Lightnings on Q from an airfield near the Humber estuary. Now there's an idea. Hmmm, I wonder....

Doh!

No need, spotters have already done that:ok:
Photos: Tupolev Tu-160 Blackjack Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Photos: Tupolev Tu-160 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

:= Trust me guys, it didn't happen!

RAF Leeming
 

Quote

"When Leeming finally goes where will the QRA on 25 end up?"

I thought QRA moved from Leeming years ago. Arent Conningsby and Leuchars the only QRA capable bases we have left?

WestCoast wrote

The Russians released the following video from their flight down to Venezuela. The F-15C intercept was apparently near to Iceland. If the Russians flight planned the trip to Venezuela I can imagine USAF conducting a temp deployment to Iceland.

YouTube - TU-160 in Venezuela. Visit proceeds. ??-160

2 Russian Tu-160 bombers fly to Venezuela - Air Force News, news from Iraq - Air Force Times

'NATO fighters escorted the two Russian bombers on their 13-hour trip to Venezuela over the Arctic and Atlantic Oceans, the Defense Ministry said'

TJ

Venezuela
 

Have they returned to Russia yet, or are we expecting another visit soon?

AonP,
The two Blackjacks flew back on the 19 September.

RIA Novosti - Russia - Russian strategic bombers return home from Venezuela

I can reveal the secret new defence policy for the UK which does not rely upon expensive radar, Typhoons etc.....

The plan is to put up a royal in a dH126 whenever there is a significant threat and declare Purple Airspace for the North Sea... nothing is ever going to get through that! The press misheard that Prince William was to join the RAF as a pilot.... in fact, he will be part of the "Pilot Project" that will involve him launching from standby in a Seaking whenever the Norweigians detect an intruder. Once the Royal Helicopter Flight concept has been trialled, it is understood that other junior royals will be used in fixed wing aircraft to finalise the concept.

Thus, the Blackjacks will be kept at bay by the Queen's Royal Aircrew (QRA) at great savings to the Nation (on the basis that the Royal Family is cheaper to run than the PAS).

PS, I understand that Hull was used as a target because Chelsea are in danger of suffering the same setbacks as Arsenal last week - the owner of Chelsea apparently using his influence within the Russian parliament to practise the target run that will be carried out for real should there be a risk of loosing 3 points at home later in their title challenge.

In days of yore - and they're yore enough not to be giving anything startling away I'm sure -

- when bad guys came visiting we'd find out as they were detected approaching/rounding North Cape, various comms would be passed via equally various means (most of which sounded to me like somebody with a speech impediment was speaking through badly behaved marbles...that's my excuse for telling the boss that there were 3 pairs of Bears approaching the Isle of Man anyway...)

They'd be tracked on various radars through the Icelandic sea (which might include a wheezing..sorry, I meant shiny... Shacklebomber provided the USSR had booked far enough in advance), intercepted by a variety of aircraft of several nationalities at numerous stages, and then they'd be "escorted" through the UKADR by a pair of F4's or similar. Sometimes a mighty brown bomber from the kipper fleet would get involved. (I used to pray not -the paperwork afterwards was awful). Sometimes the Shack was pronably needed to supply impromptu ATC services due to the number of NATO potatoes queueing up for a photo op.

Of course anything coming from the Baltic would be cheating. (I think we relied on there being a 'Battle of Denmark', a bit like 1940 but with everyone riding bicycles - or is that Holland? Anyhow, I'm sure Kenneth Moore and Jack Hawkins would have been in the film version).

Nowadays what's left to do all that? Not just our part in it - our allies' assets don't seem to be as numerous any more... it'd take a serious reinvestment for more than the UK to return to the capability we had 20 years ago - and if you remember that far back, it wasn't that impressive then, was it?

I console myself with 2 thoughts:

1 - Why would any sane Russian want to try to run the UK.
2 - It would take a serious amount of bombing before the damage done equalled what casual vandalism runs up daily.

Oh, and as for - 'A spokesman said in a statement: “We are satisfied we have the flexibility to launch as many aircraft as the situation requires.'

- what complete and utter bollards, if he really believes that he's a bigger f****wit than he apparently takes the rest of us for!

Dave
(Getting old and crusty, obviously)