Blackjack Evades UKADGE/QRA
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Blackjack Evades UKADGE/QRA
Oooops....
Mind you, then number of times I got dragged out of bed after a night's QRA becuase their lordships weren't happy. The coverage up north ain't great without Int. Even in the 80s they did a surprise "attack". Pair popped up 100nm from Polestar, Benbecula and Saxa on a co-ordinated attack and then headed home; we scrambled but never caught them. We reckoned they'd gone over the pole in radio silence then headed south. No chance of spotting them.
Nothing changes. Won't stop heads rolling and hats on interviews though I suspect.....
p.s. Did we catch on the way home, or just do a tailchase?
Torygraph: Russian jet flies within 90 seconds of Hull
A Russian nuclear bomber managed to get within 90 seconds of Hull in a mock attack as RAF radars failed to pick it up.
The supersonic Blackjack changed course 20 miles from UK airspace, it has been reported. The jet was picked up on RAF radars but only after it had turned back.
Critics of the Government’s cuts in defence spending say that they have left the country at risk. Four years ago four squadrons of Jaguar and Tornado F3 fighters were slashed from the RAF’s books. In January it emerged that the Ministry of Defence will have to cut its budget by an extra £1.5 billion a year over the next three years, leaving the three armed forces vying with each other for the money. The RAF is also expected to lose two of its frontline Tornado GR4 ground attack squadrons as part of cuts to existing forces.
A senior RAF pilot told The Sun: “The Russians made us look helpless. The Blackjack could have got even closer. It was a disaster — it basically gave the Russians the green light to fly wherever they want.” Ministry of Defence officials confirmed the incident, but said the RAF had a “multilayered” approach to detecting and deterring enemy jets. A spokesman said in a statement: “We are satisfied we have the flexibility to launch as many aircraft as the situation requires.”
Mind you, then number of times I got dragged out of bed after a night's QRA becuase their lordships weren't happy. The coverage up north ain't great without Int. Even in the 80s they did a surprise "attack". Pair popped up 100nm from Polestar, Benbecula and Saxa on a co-ordinated attack and then headed home; we scrambled but never caught them. We reckoned they'd gone over the pole in radio silence then headed south. No chance of spotting them.
Nothing changes. Won't stop heads rolling and hats on interviews though I suspect.....
p.s. Did we catch on the way home, or just do a tailchase?
Torygraph: Russian jet flies within 90 seconds of Hull
A Russian nuclear bomber managed to get within 90 seconds of Hull in a mock attack as RAF radars failed to pick it up.
The supersonic Blackjack changed course 20 miles from UK airspace, it has been reported. The jet was picked up on RAF radars but only after it had turned back.
Critics of the Government’s cuts in defence spending say that they have left the country at risk. Four years ago four squadrons of Jaguar and Tornado F3 fighters were slashed from the RAF’s books. In January it emerged that the Ministry of Defence will have to cut its budget by an extra £1.5 billion a year over the next three years, leaving the three armed forces vying with each other for the money. The RAF is also expected to lose two of its frontline Tornado GR4 ground attack squadrons as part of cuts to existing forces.
A senior RAF pilot told The Sun: “The Russians made us look helpless. The Blackjack could have got even closer. It was a disaster — it basically gave the Russians the green light to fly wherever they want.” Ministry of Defence officials confirmed the incident, but said the RAF had a “multilayered” approach to detecting and deterring enemy jets. A spokesman said in a statement: “We are satisfied we have the flexibility to launch as many aircraft as the situation requires.”
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You need to read the other version of this story for the full effect:
THE SUN TELLS IT STRAIGHT
Thats journalism right there folks.
THE SUN TELLS IT STRAIGHT
Thats journalism right there folks.
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Reminds me of Robin Williams' Muammar Gaddafi impersonation;
"You cross this line....you die",
Ok, "You cross this line....you die",
Ok, "You cross this line....you die",
"You cross this line....you die",
Ok, "You cross this line....you die",
Ok, "You cross this line....you die",
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Good time to get rid of Rapier then
"We have a multi layered detection system" Yes Radar when it's too late, visual to confirm it's bomb doors are open, then aural for the BANG.
What we don,t have is a multi layered response, relying totally on fixed wing(5-6 minutes) defence. Why are we the only country in NATO without an effective SAM system????????????
"We have a multi layered detection system" Yes Radar when it's too late, visual to confirm it's bomb doors are open, then aural for the BANG.
What we don,t have is a multi layered response, relying totally on fixed wing(5-6 minutes) defence. Why are we the only country in NATO without an effective SAM system????????????
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
The point I was making was even in the 80s before any cut backs they Russians could do it any time they wanted. Another 3-4 squadrons and more radar sites wouldn't make a ha'peth of difference.
The shock incident — which air chiefs hushed up — is the most serious since the end of the Cold War. And it exposes alarming flaws in Britain’s air defence, seriously calling into question the Government’s defence cuts four years ago, when four fast jet squadrons of Jaguar and Tornado F3 fighters were slashed from the RAF’s books.
I thought the whole idea of EuropHoon, AWACS etc was effective AD?
Oh, of course then came Options. The Russiand looked on in amazement as we rolled over and trusted them not to be a threat anymore. No. Of course they wouldn't be - they said so.....
But the excuse of 'overstretch' can hardly extend to UK QRA - it's not as though the EuropHoons are doing much now that the air show season is over.
Mind you, whether the ageing AAR force with its creaky old museum pieces could have launched in support is a moot point...
With any luck this might have come as a wake up call to the spineless NuLabor and the current MoD 'leadership' - or should I say 'Chief Executives of the UK Historic Aircraft Flight'?
But then again, it would only have taken another 90 sec to wake up 'Two Jags'.....
The supersonic “Blackjack” jet flew a direct course for the port of Hull, East Yorks, in a lighting-fast mock attack
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mileandahalf i think you know what i meant, and that wasn't Rapier downing a Blackjack at 29nm. With the North Lincs hills and line of site i doubt any system could regardless of it's published range. And of course it would be outside of our waters/airspace.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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I chased a supersonic target north-eastwards in the 70's until I VERY NEARLY ran out of fuel (Thank you tanker crew
). Luckily I gave up the fruitless pursuit in time despite 'orders' - but heard no more of that
.
). Luckily I gave up the fruitless pursuit in time despite 'orders' - but heard no more of that.
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I feel desperately sorry for the Typhoon. No threat to our airspace against which to prove itself and no obvious opportunity to unleash it's A-G potential. A veritable warlord spawned in a time of unrivalled peace.
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Typhoon QRA
BEagle,
Beating up on Typhoon as a QRA platform misses the fundamental point. QRA does not sit on CAP 24/7 waiting for a target to appear in its AI radar; it is scrambled and vectored toward the target by ground-based or airborne air surveillance radars linked in to the national command and control system. If you want 24/7 QRA CAP, there is justification for 232 Typhoons after all, assuming we could ever find the crew to fly and maintain them!
SO
Beating up on Typhoon as a QRA platform misses the fundamental point. QRA does not sit on CAP 24/7 waiting for a target to appear in its AI radar; it is scrambled and vectored toward the target by ground-based or airborne air surveillance radars linked in to the national command and control system. If you want 24/7 QRA CAP, there is justification for 232 Typhoons after all, assuming we could ever find the crew to fly and maintain them!
SO
No ****, Sherlock!
I did quite a few years on Q both on the F4 and on the VC10K and have a reasonable idea of how well it worked in the 1980s....
But when Tanker standby was resurrected in the late 1990s, it was obvious that the lessons we'd learned a decade earlier had all been forgotten. I hope that things have improved since - but whether people can scramble VC10s from being fast asleep 12 miles off base to airborne in 40 minutes, or 7 minutes crewroom to airborne these days I wouldn't like to guess.
Enough TypHoons will do the interception task, but a decent AD radar system and Int assessment is vital for the detection task - as are sufficient serviceable tankers!
I did quite a few years on Q both on the F4 and on the VC10K and have a reasonable idea of how well it worked in the 1980s....
But when Tanker standby was resurrected in the late 1990s, it was obvious that the lessons we'd learned a decade earlier had all been forgotten. I hope that things have improved since - but whether people can scramble VC10s from being fast asleep 12 miles off base to airborne in 40 minutes, or 7 minutes crewroom to airborne these days I wouldn't like to guess.
Enough TypHoons will do the interception task, but a decent AD radar system and Int assessment is vital for the detection task - as are sufficient serviceable tankers!
It`s all right,it was just a gas pipeline patrol..
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Shouldn't have drawn down all the CRCs. I'd have picked it up on the night shift, honest!
I remember an infamous incident when the southern CRC had tracked such an intruder and hadn't briefed the northern CRC the next day! The rather pleasant and normally restrained Staish went ballistic! Happy days......
I remember an infamous incident when the southern CRC had tracked such an intruder and hadn't briefed the northern CRC the next day! The rather pleasant and normally restrained Staish went ballistic! Happy days......
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I would like to think that in future the MoD will offer the statement that we do not scramble QRA for every peacetime intrusion.
This would, in effect, deny the Russians the opportunity to test our air defences and, at the same time, let the spineless economists off the political hook.
This would, in effect, deny the Russians the opportunity to test our air defences and, at the same time, let the spineless economists off the political hook.
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This would, in effect, deny the Russians the opportunity to test our air defences and, at the same time, let the spineless economists off the political hook
That would, in reality, also deny the RAF the opportunity to practice, test and improve its air defenses against a real Russian air attack.
Wonder if France had that air defense doctrine in 1939?
.
That would, in reality, also deny the RAF the opportunity to practice, test and improve its air defenses against a real Russian air attack.
Wonder if France had that air defense doctrine in 1939?
.