Sir Glen Speaks!
 

On the BBC so it must be true.

BBC NEWS | UK | With the RAF in Iraq and Afghanistan

Everything sounds really good; people on OOA are all really happy and life is easy back in the UK. Oh yeah, and 41,000 are enough - apparently.

Maybe I'll stay, after all. :hmm:

The RAF has three Reapers? I thought it had two with a third on the way (to replace the one that crashed) and the 10 extra Reaper plan had been abandoned.

CAS:
Well that's you off the hook then Sir Glenn, it's all the fault of those tight fisted politicians! Not in my book I'm afraid. When things started to get bad, let alone bloody awful as they are now, it was your duty on behalf of your subordinates to draw a line in the sand. Thus far and no further, with the clear implication that if resources were still with-held you would complain loud clear and publicly, and if still no heed was taken you would resign, loud clear and publicly, with the further implication that you would continue your tirade in retirement, loud clear and publicly. Fanciful, unrealistic, naive? Perhaps, but very compelling for the young men and women for whom YOU are responsible. What good would it have done? Who knows - it's never been tried in the Royal Air Force!

Priceless BBC- talking about problems with tristars and showing footage of Omni DC-10...nice

That was exactly my thought:hmm:

Mileandahalf:
Damned right I am. It's a two way thing, demonstrated in my time by my bosses, over and over again. Why did they do it? Because they KNEW their duty to their subordinates. I hope, but doubt, that is still the case of commanders, or more correctly subordinate commanders, today. Sir Glenn is not a Commander, nor are his CinCs, nor are his AOCs. They are managers, always have been, always will be. However they still have a responsibility to their subordinates in general and to their Service in particular. He and they have reneged on that responsibility. They should all go and be replaced by those more capable than they. There are none? Oh yes there are, there always are, and time of war is when you have to find them and promote them. Time is of the essence as the lawyers say.

Ah, the field sport of Pprune: BBC bashing.

How about:

Ms Wyatt wanted to mention the Tristar / Air Bridge issue, but they had no Tristars to film. So they framed a shot of a similar transport aircraft such that it looked reasonably generic. It was that or fail to mention the issue at all (you do need some pictures for TV you know, you can't just talk over black).

Not really fair to bash her for that, in a very nicely crafted 7 min piece.

vp

Sir Glen
 

Chugalug2. Please tell this civilian from which pinnacle of high responsibility do you feel qualified to criticize, by name and publically, your CAS when you know that he is unable to reply?

Are you part of the new Stasi or something?

I hope you are not upsetting Torpy as well by spelling his name wrong....

I like Omni Air DC10's!

John Purdey:Well the same one as you I guess, being as I'm a civilian as well. If you are minded to defend Sir Glenn's record then please go ahead. And he is able to reply and should, not to me as I am of no account whatsoever (thought I'd get that one in before you did!), but to the groundswell of concern at the state of the RAF from within and without. It is not necessarily entirely his fault, but it is his responsibility and needs urgently attending to. As his "attending" has got us to where we are today, I would suggest that future "attending" be best left to someone more able. For just as I am of no account, nor in comparison to the security of this nation and the future of the Royal Air Force is he, nor any other individual.
P.S. I know you're going to make a big deal about me hiding behind an anonymous tag, so game set and match to you. It never occurred to me to register my real name as my user one, as you (presumably) and Nigel have done, perhaps I should have. But I made my bed and must lie on it, I'm certainly not going to change horses now because you say so! (Horses, beds....???).

That poor Harrier pilot Ben needs some rations!

Are you lads all on diets?

Sir Glen
 

Chugalug and Mileandahalf. Before I wind my neck in, as you so graciously put it, I have to say that you contributions remind me of the old days, just before the bar closed in the NAAFI. Regards. JP

Sir Glen
 

Mileandahalf. The answer is a simple interest in fair play. If Torpy or others in similar positions are to be critised in the media, they are usually offered the opportunity to reply. Even if they are not, then at least they know who it is having a go at them. This is obviously not the case in Prune, is it.?
What is more, I think you forget that Torpy and others are very constrained by ministers in what they may or may not say. Do you not recall the incident when CGS (the present very good one) was thought to have spoken out of turn, and was thefore recalled post haste to the minister's office in MOD to explain himself, leaving his wife behind to take the graduation parade at Dartmouth?
Apologies for the minor typing error; I thought we were on an intellectual plane a little higher than quibbles like that.
With all good wishes. JP

John Purdey:
Well that's what the problem is isn't it JP? CGS is not constrained and gets his message across (then gets a smacked wrist, and verbal no doubt from Mrs CGS), CAS is constrained and simply gets the "DS solution" across. Of course there is a cost to "speaking out" but not half as much as the cost of having to use kit that is unfit for purpose when at war! Time for a change in the higher command of the RAF before there is no RAF!
Thanks for manning the fort Mileandahalf, I'm afraid I was absent from my post. Think anyone noticed?

John Purdey, and mileandahalf
 

Gentlemen, I can see your debate is ongoing. Can I please add my two-penneth worth please.
From an outsiders point of view I can both agree with JP and disagree with him.
Very few folks in the aviation world would ever dismiss any of JP's views on avaition (and especially in the VTOL world), and indeed many would look upon him as a world expert, BUT I also think that in your later career JP, you were somewhat "spoiled".

For example, you were listened to by senior figures, and could often have your point of view both listened to, and "heard". I think one of the big gripes in today's British forces is that no-one is listened to, resulting in a feeling of low morale, frustration and also helplessness.

I also think that times, and the attitude of modern management are different. JP, you may well remember how one of the ground staff (not sure on that point, but not a TP) knew well in advance of the TP's that the Harrier's/Kestrel's outrigger wheels would wobble in use. He was listened to..... Imagine if he (and others) had been ignored, and had to watch crews struggle with this problem for the next 30 years!

It is also possible that there is some "rose coloured vision" going on, now that it is not your life on the line (no offence meant. Maybe similar to how is is easier to babysit someone elses children, as you know you can give them back).

As for JP being a windup merchant, I always thought that was an essential quality of a TP.:}

Barnstormer1968

barnstormer,

I think you have confused John Purdey with John Farley.

lm

Wise words Barnstormer. I don't enjoy posting as I have done on this thread, but when you follow other threads that have displayed the woeful circumstances in UK Military Airworthiness on the Nimrod, Hercules and Chinook fleets alone, as well as unacceptable administrative shortcomings causing further stress to those forever being sent "sausage side" one gets the sickening feeling that a point of no return has been passed, and where to now? Perhaps the worst aspect of all, and the most "unfixable" is the rush for the doors by experienced and skilled personnel. The CAS might as well accompany his platitudes with a lyre given the strong smell of Rome burning! I must admit not being aware of JP's illustrious career as a TP. Perhaps he might air his opinion of the situation where an aircraft type (the Chinook HC2) was in squadron service despite not being released by Boscombe Down who grounded theirs the day before the Mull tragedy? I know that wasn't under this CAS but is symptomatic of the trend into territory that was unimaginable in my day.

The Harrier Development Story - by John Farley OBE AFC CEng

John Farley's Lecture


A very good read........


AA

Lightningmate and Ancient Aviator
 

Thank you for that lightningmate.
Yes my mistake.
Bit obvious looking at it now (re John Farley). :}
I will delete my post if anyone wants me to, I just haven't done it yet, or your comment would not make sense to others.

I will now go and take myself to the "step inn" have words with myself:ouch:

Barnstormer1968

(Talking of Purdey, does anyone still have fond memories of the "THE NEW AVENGERS")

Have you ever heard of the concept of footage in a library so it's available when needed?

if the BBC haven't got library footage of every type of aircraft in the RAF inventory then they are doubly incompetent.

Sir Glen
 

My original comments were about old-fashioned loyalty, but as so often happens in these threads the topic has run into the sand. With all good wishes. JP

John Purdey, the man you are appealing loyalty for is Sir Glenn Torpy! Loyalty was the very issue that started this exchange, loyalty for Sir Glenn yes, but loyalty also from Sir Glenn in exchange. That is, if you like, the covenant of leadership, and leaders have to be prepared to pay the price of that loyalty from time to time. Your post showed that CGS is prepared to do so. We wait and wait for the CAS to do the same. As for sand, none around here, it's all nice and comfy here in blighty isn't it? So that's all right then!

Barnstormer, don't feel bad. You "manned up" as I believe is the expression. Would that others in the higher echelons learned that art! As to The New Avengers, are yes that I do remember; Patrick MacNee and the delicious Joanna Lumley, AKA John Steed & Purdey. I say, I've just noticed something, could it be? No, surely not!

Sir Glenn
 

Chugalug2. No it isn't!! Regards JP

[QUOTE][spent defence money procuring equipment at twice the cost of a cheaper, battle proven alternative, from outside of the ever-more-expensive UK industry./QUOTE]

A simplistic view!...you forget the rates,vat, NI contributions etc. generated by the factories and their employees....then there's the transport infrastructure....fuel duty, road-tax...more vat....all creating revenue back into the government's other pocket! and keeping officialdom employed.

Unfortunately, the inept "civil-service" (an oxymoron ,if ever there was one) is a self-serving beaurocracyand until people are held truly accountable, will continue to be so.

Were there to be proper sanctions-sacking, loss of pension rights etc. applied to the incompetent, we ,as tax-payers, might get better value for money.
This scandalous story is an illustration of just what's wrong with this country's bloated incompetent administration......unfortunately, anyone who does have the intelligence AND integrity to question the status-quo............

John P

What is it about Sir Glenn that you obviously admire so much?

Is it his leadership? His loyalty to his troops? Maybe it's his aviating skills as a pilot? Whatever it is, I can state that you are wrong on ALL counts.

And before you start questioning me about my loyalty blah, I can tell you that the Air Force had many many years of loyalty from me (and countless thousands of others too) but in the main, the loyalty coming back was abysmal to say the least.

Sir Glenn Torpy has shown himself to be a poor leader, with an inability to stand up for his troops and return the loyalty that has been given to him. I have yet to hear him utter a single word about the cuts that have destroyed 'his' Air Force and left it in the pathetic mess it is today. His single claim-to-fame is the procurement of hundreds of Typhoons - just what the boys need in the sand pit eh?

Why has he not had the guts to stand up in public and criticise the appalling defence cuts. (Probably because he's looking for a nice little job at BAEs maybe??) Why has he never complained about the lack of manpower, both aircrew and groundcrew? and why, having lost Nimrod 230, did he say that the aircraft was 'as safe as it needs to be' Just a pathetic and spineless statement from a pretty spineless and useless CAS. Sorry Glenn, it's time you hung up your flying suit.

Oh and as for his aviating skills - I'm afraid you'll have to ask a Fast Jet Mate about that. But, we all know that rank bears no reflection to someones aviating abilities, so I doubt if he is particularly talented in that area either.

With apolgies for thread drift ...
 

Unfortunately, the inept "civil-service" (an oxymoron ,if ever there was one) is a self-serving beaurocracyand until people are held truly accountable, will continue to be so.

Were there to be proper sanctions-sacking, loss of pension rights etc. applied to the incompetent, we ,as tax-payers, might get better value for money.

Just wanted to ask if this regime would apply to the incompetent among the uniformed services as well?

Room 40 (former civil servant who tried hard to be 'ept' and whose excrement is gripped by this sort of gereralised drivel)

Sir Glenn
 

Wingco. Calm down. Just as well you can hide behind the anonymity of Pprune, isn't it? What on earth has the man done to you to deserve such venom? As to the name Purdey (see above) it is also the name of a well-known shot-gun. I am about to load both barrels in the hope of bumping into.........!!!!!! JP

Another good knock the RAF and slag off Typhoon comment, good one Winco. Having seen Sir Glenn at close quarters and the political wrangling he is forced to endure, he does stand up for his guys and he does lead, perhaps not in the way you expect that is for those slightly lower down the chain to demonstrate. As far as I recall, he isn't the one who committed us to Typhoon and perhaps you should look higher for blame (and a little further back in procurement terms) and then it may all become clear.

Winco,

I must confess that I never realised that you could be an Boeing 747 Captain with just a CPL - times have obviously changed!!

Perhaps, though, as you apparently currently fly a 747; perhaps you could explain your expertise in the Man Management aspects of being CAS - in particular your expertise in dealing with the current occupant of No 10.

No; not Acacia Avenue - Downing Street!!!

PS;

How many CAS's have you flown with?

I have flown with 3 who were piloting the aircraft with me (a Spec Aircrew Flt Lt) as Captain. None of the 3 had ever flown that particular aircraft type before. I would, however, point out that I was a Flight Instructor/Examiner and IRE on that Type.

Moreover, in each case said CAS wanted to hear from myself, and also my Flt Cdr Navigator, exactly what we thought were the problems facing the RAF and what were the issues that affected people on a day to day basis. The ALM and Cpl Stewards were also consulted on aspects that affected them.

How often do your Company Execs come and ask you about your concerns???

PPS

I do remember getting an apoplectic Command Accountant on the phone regarding the rejection of a claim for a Boarding House bill (there were not any Hotels in that particular Town) after Gp had revised our itinerary to collect a Chinese Delegation in the early hours of the next morning. The CinC rejected the viewpoint of the Accountants that there was nothing in QR's that said you were allowed to go to sleep during the day!!

I merely said that I would raise his concerns with the C in C when we were flying together the next day. There was some form of strangled cry and the line went dead.

Er.... The requirement for Typhoon was decided prior to the SDR. Without checking, he was probably Staish at Bruggen

The first Tranche of Typhoons was signed years ago, I think Sir Peter Squire was CAS at the time.

The second Tranche was ordered when Sir Jock Stirrup was CAS.

Number of Typhoons procured under current CAS? Zero.

If the Tranche 3 negotiations conclude while he's still CAS and we end up buying some/all of them, then he'll have overseen the ordering of 88, largely, though, because his hands are tied by inter-governmental agreements signed while he was commanding a squadron.

Winco,

Come on, don't be shy.

Comment one way of the other!!!!!!

Of course, we all know that you cannot substantiate in any way, shape or form the theories you have postulated.

Post your proof - or admit you were WRONG

Torpys Interview
 

Which aircraft was he in for the airborne interview ?

Winco




STILL WAITING !!!!

Cazatou,

Firstly, do try to give people just a little bit of time to respond - not all of us can sit on Prune all day long you know, some of us do have another life!

Secondly, don't show your ignorance by suggesting that I fly a 747 on a CPL alone, simply because that's all I've put on my public forum, thats just stupid, and as an ex pilot you should know better. If you would like me to list all of my licences and tickets for different aircraft, then drop me a PM and when I've got nothing better to do, then I'll gladly pass them all on to you.

My company execs regularly discuss things with me (and all the other pilots) and I'm pleased to say that in the main, they not only listen but act.

I'm sorry, but I have no experience in dealing with the occupant of No 10 at all.

Now then, if you are an ex RAF pilot, instead of me justifying why I think Torpy is a poor leader, why don't you come out and tell us what he has done that you feel displays the leadership expected of the head of the RAF, and why you disagree with me on this, and many many others.

There are countless examples of poor leadership, and you don't need me or anyone else to list them for you. Would I be correct in thinking that perhaps you would say that the CDS was WRONG with his public outburst against financial cuts, manpower cuts, equipment cuts that are affecting the services??

I think that I have flown with 4 or 5 CAS's over the years - but I'm not sure what your point is here? Yes they will all listen to you, and yes they will all show keen interest, but how many of them responded to any complaints you might have had? And I note that you didn't comment on their aviating skills, only on how good they were at listening?

The point is, we're not talking about a bloody travel claim here man, we are talking about the lives of our men and women, in theatre, who are being put at risk by a lack of support, equipment and Christ knows what else. I agree that is NOT the fault of CAS, but what do we hear from him about the shortages..............NOT A LOT!

Now, if you think the Sir Glenn is a good CAS, then you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. However, the vast majority of the rank and file of todays RAF are sick and tired of having a CAS, who wouldn't say 'Boo' to a goose! Nevermind stand up for 'his' boys and girls.

And finally, his handling of the Nimrod loss sums him up IMHO. I, for one, will never forgive him for saying that the aircraft is as safe as it needs to be. That was shameful and and shows a really poor sense of judgement, wouldn't you agree?

Now then, I'm away for the next couple of days, so if I don't answer any of your posts withing 10 minutes, try to refrain from further posts with very large writing please - I'm not blind yet thank you.

Been biting my tongue for days but imagine my surprise at finding JP and Cazatou taking this stance..........................:rolleyes:

Sir Glen
 

Winco. So you speak for the great majority of today's rank and file in the RAF. I had no idea we were in such distinguished company. JP

CAS lost the vote when he stated that the Nimrod, "was as safe as it needed to be."

A bloody awful statement from a man you would expect more from. He was done nothing for the RAF since becoming CAS, absolute zip.

Asking you are during a flight is fine, shame nothing is done about your concerns. "It's about my quarter sir" "Medical care is in decline sir" "Sir, our SH are buggered, can we get some more & not just a few for a short term fix?"

Shame is, the chaps in waiting for the job will be just as spineless...You have to be in order to get the job. CGS slipped through the net however, he has been quickly sidelined since the shock discovery of his ability to speak out.

Plenty of guys from the branch I'm in are jumping ship (not sure about the rest of you) and nobody is trying to stop them.

Why stay in a job when the MD could not give a toss or, is unable to make a difference (either way, that makes him totally redundant)? It's made even worse by the fact that CDS is RAF too. VERY brave of him to speak out AFTER his job was secured for another 3 years...:ugh:

Perhaps it's the increasing politicization of the higher levels..? If you are going to get high up in the service, you have to play the game perhaps in the hope that when you get there, you will be able to change things from within. Then when you get there, you realise that if you tell the truth and speak out you get sidelined. Having seen some of the manoeuvring that goes on at that level, the amount of back-stabbing and a**e covering that goes on is phenomenal because everyone is scared of being found wanting. Perhaps if we hadn't agonised over things and spent time looking over shoulders, we would have sorted Iraq out, be well on the way in Afghanistan and have a procurement system that is more coherent that TK Max and we wouldn't be existing on UORs.
Anyway, when I asked CAS for assistance on something, he actually took direct action and sorted things out to the benefit of the people I was working with. Not terribly notable I know, but it does show that when he was operating at a non-political level, he was ready to swing into action. I don't envy him operating amongst the cesspool of Government.