HMS Daring eases through first sea trials
 

From the Telegraph today:

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Daring is crowned by a huge 30-metre high Samson radar that can track more than 1,000 targets at once.

The system is so powerful it can monitor all take-offs and landings from every major European airport within 200 miles of Portsmouth.

The ship can engage 12 air targets and will carry Harpoon anti-ship missiles and Tomahawk cruise missiles.

Officers claim that if it was stationed in the River Thames, its weapon system would be able to single-handedly destroy any incoming airborne attack on Greater London.

HMS Darling
 

And while it's shooting down cricket balls the crew can listen to their ipods too!:ok:

:hmm:

The Telegraph also says that BAE says that American visitors to the yard on the Clyde were left shocked and shaken. The newspaper desists from developing these heady emotions further so the reader has no idea whether they were prompted by envy, horror, disgust or satisfaction. Perhaps the Americans are perturbed at the fact that the Aster missile system, on which the T45 will be so heavily dependent, and London too by all accounts, is a French system with the major shareholder, either through the Thales group or through MBDA, being the French government?:hmm:

I might sound cynical, but its rucksacks we need to detect right now.

Peter,
Yes I agree entirely. Can't help think that the money could be so much better spent where it's needed at the moment, and that aint on the high seas, or up the Thames!!
TSM

She's the first of how many? Twelve?

Oh NO! That's how many we were supposed to be getting. Is it 6 now? Or 4? I forget.

Changing defence needs, people! The world's changing, and apparently we don't need as much defence...

:mad:

Daring Class
 

Defending London.....the RN will be hard pressed to release one of their four Daring Class vessels to defend London when they have 2 carriers to protect.

Having said that, the RN will probably only have enough people to operate one carrier at a time, so the bean counters will see that as a means of knocking back the orders for more of these vessels.

Hope they get them though

How do you safely get forward from aft & vice versa in a fire? :suspect: No upper deck.

I see she is so good that they reported it twice.

Quote:

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It is also the most eco-friendly ship ever produced for the Royal Navy, with a unique electric propulsion system that can ferry it from New York and back without refuelling.

---

Interesting starting point.

Quote:

---

Officers claim that if it was stationed in the River Thames, its weapon system would be able to single-handedly destroy any incoming airborne attack on Greater London.

---

So long as the threat doesn't number more than 12 simultaneously and 48 total. Please do not read that as a criticism of the ship, though.

"Gannic Squadron, Hundred Plus at Angels two-five. Vector one two zero. Watch out for Snappers."

Well in 1940 they only had 12 aircraft to a squadron and they managed all right... :hmm:

I have a vision of a giant Freddie Trueman lobbing cricket balls at London, being fired at by this ship like some King Kong type figure:ok:

They didn't mention losing the hook then? Or not being able to run the "most eco-friendly propulsion system" (the Great White Turbine & an out of production baby DG) in it's designed mode then? Or the somewhat abbreviated 4.5" shoot.

Ho-hum........

I suspect that the T45 is very much like Typhoon in that short sighted individuals like TSM and TE view it as merely a Cold War asset with no relevance to modern ops.
They need to open their minds a little to realise how valuable such assets as the T45 are in modern ops, particularly when Iran could potentially make life very difficult if they wished to take a more active part in the Gulf waters.
T45 is relevant and it's good to see the dark blue getting some very long overdue replacements for the T42s.
MM

Daring Performance
 

Beeb News item this morning quoted nought-30(ish) Kts in less than a minute. That impressed me!

CM

Boffin, I was under the (probably mistaken) impression that the electric drive pods were for berthing etc like on , I think, QE2?

I notice that the crew has Ipod chargers, so that's all right then, no more blubbing.:E

how high?
 

Also from the factfile summary:

Size: Five times higher than Nelson’s column. The ship’s 20,000 power cables stretch 400 miles.

:confused:

;)

The ship’s 20,000 power cables stretch 400 miles.

Does that mean it then has to turn around and head back to port ?





'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

Is that why so many open spaces appeared in the centre of London then?

Just come off the sea trials and probably the best ever undertaken by any new RN ship. A speed of 31knts and some superb tight manouveres - not quite low level, fast jet standards but impressive all the same.

The PAAMS system trials come later, there is still some way to go before Daring enters service with RN.

Original talk was of a class of 12 Type 45's but this reduced to eight. Six are on contract although, the recent CSR statement in parliament mentioned that a fleet of eight remained in the long-term plan.

Relatively low level flypasts by a Nimrod MRA4 off the west coast of Scotland yesterday as Daring was heading home. Hopefully pics, taken from the air and deck, will make an appearance soon.

Gainesy - she has no pods, just electric motors driving conventional shaft & props.

Backseatjock - are you suggesting that the Great White Turbine performed flawlessly (in ALL modes)?

Nice to see that the laws of physics regarding radar horizon and terrain masking have been conquered ... or are the RN using a bit of poetic licence ?? ;)

I was involved with the movement of one of the radar scanners last year from where it was built to a test site in the area. From conversation with the designers it is indeed a clever thing.
Some stats on the ball (not forces so can say!) 4.7m diameter in transit on a lowloader 6m, weight about 7.5 tonne value £14.4million ish.
The company was at pains to point out that not even the USA has this technology. was at Portsmouth last month and noticed them on test rigs on the downs, on a floating test barge and Ark Royal.

Ah, thanks Boffin, what's this Great White thing you refer to, the main engine?

Westie I'm pretty sure the Yanks have had low loaders for years.:)

Yeah, Oh just got it :D

It was suggested to avoid chaos it be heloed from ship to test site, but it was felt that as the UK forces were busy the only option was a Russian machine, the worry was it would just fly away. Though we did consider trying to sell it on Ebay at about 05:00 the morning we were moving it

For those with an interest, here is the BAE Systems news release regarding sea trials of Daring:

WORLD'S MOST ADVANCED WARSHIP COMPLETES STAGE ONE SEA TRIALS

The world's most advanced warship, HMS Daring, has completed her stage one sea trials and has received glowing reports after performing above all expectations.

The high standard of the ship's overall design is such that not a single one of her almost 800 compartments exceeds the habitability standards for vibration when operating at full power. Such an achievement would be unlikely on a luxury yacht and is a unique achievement for such a large, complex and powerful warship.

The first of the new Type 45 Daring Class destroyers has been put through her paces off the west coast of Scotland by BAE Systems engineers and the Royal Navy personnel who will form her permanent crew once she enters service in 2009.

Trials began on 18th July and have focused on testing the 'ship' part of 'warship' – the platform itself; propulsion systems, controls, key weapons engineering systems, navigation, radars and gyros, as well as the habitability of the ship including the galley, cabins, sewage treatment plant, ventilation and lighting.

Some of HMS Daring's achievements are:
. Against an initial design target of 28 knots, the ship has already comfortably exceeded 30 knots
. HMS Daring reached top speed in little over two minutes from a standing start, an outstanding performance for such a large ship.
. The ship has spent two days at the Benbecula range in the North Atlantic trialling its 4.5 inch gun and twin small calibre guns on the port and starboard sides.

On her return to Scotstoun, HMS Daring will continue with her systems integration and testing prior to stage two trialling in March 2008.

Commenting on the performance of HMS Daring, Commander David Shutts, the ship's senior Royal Navy officer, said: "It is early days in her life, but Daring has already lived up to the high standards that we have set for her. She promises to be a tremendous asset for the Royal Navy and the men and women who will serve on her."

BAE Systems Type 45 chief engineer David Downs said: "Delivering any programme as complex as the Type 45 presents huge challenges. To know that we are meeting those challenges and remain on target to deliver these superb ships to the Royal Navy is a huge boost to everyone on 'Team Daring'."

The Great White Turbine is the RR WR21 Advanced Intercooled Recuperating Cycle Gas Turbine, developed from the RB211 (I think) to produce a "flat" fuel consumption performance at part load at enormous expense by UK & US. So highly rated is the turbine that it was only put in the ship by the express intervention of Buffhoon, replacing the preferred GE LM2500+.

WR21 currently has an order book of 6 shipsets (12 units) worldwide. I wonder if anyone can guess which class that is. Word is that the recuperator is somewhat less than reliable and that the unit can only be run as a simple cycle engine. This would not be a problem, were it not for the diminutive size of the diesel generators fitted, which are both small in terms of output power and old (in that they're no longer supported by the OEM). Hence my bafflement at the allegedly impressive sea trial performance.......

WL - what you saw on Ark isn't Sampson......

Thanks Boffin, I think I'll have to read in on that, though it made more sense when I reread it as recuperating, rather than reciprocating, which I did the first time round!

I thought one of the Falklands' lessons learned (but obviously not heeded) was that a single barrel gun is not good, hence the Paras' lack of NGS at Goose Green when whichever ship it was allocated to support had a lengthy stoppage/jam? Would it be that much harder to have a twin-barrel turret?

As MM points out, this is not before time.

The Type 45 was supposed to enter service in 2007 (according to that nice Mr Ingram) but was delayed. The delay is particularly unfortunate considering the fragile state of the RN's anti air capabilities, given the state and age of the Type 42s, the reduced sixe of the fleet, and the loss of the Sea Harrier (as discussed here). Yes, the politicians did say that the T45 would cover the shortfall in capability caused. We were meant to get twelve, and should consider ourselves lucky if we get eight. You would need a lot of T45s to provide the same level of capability as a sqaudron of fighters.

When Des Browne made his recent announcement regarding the Future Carriers many of us expected that the T45 order would be cut to six ships. It was not. Whether we actually get eight is another matter.

Some of the systems developed for the T45 will end up in CVF. SAMPSON comes to mind. Even the building techniques, where the bow section is made by Vosper Thornycroft down South and then transported by barge to the Clyde and integrated with the rest (VT also build the mast) will provide valuable experience for building and integrating CVF.

The Telegraph says that they will have Harpoon and Tomahawk. Really?

See these other PPRuNe threads:

Type 45 Destroyer - Embarked Aviation

RN T45s to be diverted for Saudi order?

On the subject of NGS:

At Goose Green NGS was provided by HMS Arrow. The problem was caused by a microswitch, not by the gun jamming. Source: Task Force: The Falklands War, 1982 by Martin Middlebrook, Penguin, 1987, now on sale updated and under a different name.

BAE Systems proposed a 155mm gun. See this:

In collaboration with DERA and GIAT, Land Systems are involved in a jointly funded study to assess future naval fire-support requirements for the Royal Navy. Work will focus on the potential to develop a 155mm naval gun which could take advantage of standard NATO ammunition and new extended-range guided munitions already in development for land-based 155mm artillery. The study was intended to identify key enabling technologies, risk-reduction and the most affordable approaches to future naval fire support.

Is Sir suggesting a new development gun mounting? Different to that which we have now?

Please bear with me while I hire some risk consultants and talk to our accountants............

Well if its the same gun I saw several years back on Manchester, er yes.:)

Why we need T45's now....:bored:



http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b85_1186787945

I'm sure I saw the very vessel on Monday, as the ferry I was on was passing between Ailsa Craig and Arran en route to Troon from Northern Ireland. I thought "that's a 42" then thought "it's got a chuffing big mast...surely not..."

Was it HMS Daring or should I take along a copy of Jane's Fighting Ships next time?

They were fed deep fried Mars Bars!!

Of course. Ironic isn't it?

I just wonder how many more open spaces would have appeared if Fighter Command hadn't had over 650 modern fighter aircraft at their disposal and had to rely on an air defence system that could only handle a dozen targets at a time.

The Type 45 is a truly magnificent machine, but we could do without such claptrap as one ship being able to "defend the whole of London against air attack" appearing in the publicity blurb. That's exactly the kind of 'mind management' our government has employed to get away with reducing our defence forces to their current unrealistic levels.

All that money just to regain the Ashes..

Range of 200 miles - Blimey, a sort of Air Defence Radar system if you like. Thats novel!

Nice looking ship though.

This is why we're putting Warney on a tight leash .... we don't want the enemy cloning 'im.

I would imagine even a T45 on a flat wicket would be deceived by a well-executed flipper .....


Is that my coat?

The opposite is the reason it is so difficult to park in Paris.:E

One other comment.

Isnt the size of that superstructure contrary to stealthy design, hence allowing detection from a much larger range by attacking A/C? IE if the enemy are in range, then so are you.

Its all very well detecting incoming at 200, but if you have bugger all to fly out there and shoot them down..

Blacksheep, totally agree with all your points. The general public (well, those interested enough to read it) may now think that area air defence is so well provided for that we could allow a few savings for all the things they think they need.

AR1, for a good looking ship, how about the previous DARING Class;


http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/barti...te3/dainty.jpg