ATPL Information
 

Back in the olden days, when Pontius was a pilot and even BEagle was still in the RAF, the PPRuNe military aircrew forum used to be both a source of information and a place for (sometimes harsh, but amusing) banter. Unfortunately over the years it has become more a forum for the discontented and a soap box for those that have no idea what they are talking about. So I was hoping to introduce a truly useful thread that could be used by many. Also I want some info.

Mods - Please do not move this thread to Wannabes Forum, military aircrew don't read it!!

I am a RAF FJ pilot with just over 2500 hours looking to join the airlines (probably) in early 2009. Unfortunately the usual method of getting info from the other 5 people on the squadron currently doing their ATPL is not open to me and the resettlement people aren't too clued up on ATPLs around here, so I am turning to the Great World Wide Web for information.

I know that as I have >2000 hours I am exempt from most of the exams. Almost everything else I am trying to piece together and much of it is assumption.

I believe that I need to:
1. Do Groundschool. Everyone uses Bristol. Anything else?
2. Get an IR - any recommended schools, any CAA limitations/rules, approx cost?
3. Do a MCC - same questions as for IR.
4. Get a medical.
5. Get a job (for the first time in 16 years)

Funding - Resettlement starts from 2 years to exit date, so can I get all grants etc from that point? Can I use my resettlement grant to pay for Bristol GS, ELCs for my IR and ELCs (next year) for my MCC? I know that from 1 Apr ELCs go up to £2000/year. Or is there a better way to do it?What else can I claim for and what other allowances are available?

RAFCARS / Managed path any use?

Which airlines are positive towards military (FJ) pilots and which aren't? Roughly when should I start applying? I know long haul/short haul has been covered quite a bit recently - anything constructive to add or is it horses for courses?

Any other top tips? If you want to keep it super secret then please PM me, but knowledge is NOT power so please share as widely as possible. Also I am sure my helo and multi brothers (and sisters) would appreciate info - this is not a FJ exclusive thread!

Thanking you all in advance, light blue, dark blue and even green.:)

ps I have tried quite hard with my speeling and grammar, please don't critique it!

Hi there,

I am not ex mil but I do have some things to offer.....

1) ATPL groundschool. Yes you will be exempt from most of the exams. I believe LASORS (just search the CAA website) has all the info you require. I went to Bristol and found it SUPERB. There were lots of ex mil guys doing the bridging package and they found it very suitable.

2) IR - I believe there is a company based in either Exeter or Bristol that offer good rates for ex mil people. Someone that has followed ths route might be able to help you there. Same with the MCC...

3) Jobs. It depends on what you want. I can't offer help on which airlines are pro versus anti ex mil guys, specifically ex FJ pilots. To be honest common sense would suggest that 10 people could argue that airline X is pro and airline Y is anti. However, in reality it makes bugger all difference as it is the Chief Pilot/Recruitment people that decide that.

Regarding timing - Most airlines in the UK, ie charter types run courses in the new year in order for you to get onto the line by the summer season. This is not the case with every airline but its a good starting point. So this being the case, apply around early summer, airline review applications over the summer and hold assessments/interviews (depending on thier assessment processes) towards the end of the year.

Hope this helps:ok:

As an RAF QSP(A) who meets LASORS D3.3 criteria in full, you should certainly contact Alex at Bristol Groundschool to sort you out with your theory requirements and exams.

You are also credited the FRTOL practical and written exams.

You will need to do a ME IR Skill Test on something like a Seneca. For that you will need to do some training first. Hopefully someone will let you know what that actually means - and the associated costs. Same goes for the MCC.

The airlines will soon be competing for every available pilot. However, you shouldn't imagine that this will apply to you when you go for interview!

Most ex-RAF pilots seem to have ended up in Virgin, ba, EasyJet and flybe. Depends what you want really. You could always try the Gulf/HK operators if you wish. There is some doubt about whether the HK mob will accept 'fATPLs' obtained with theory credit still.

Have fun - the airline world should be your lobster in 2009! Just don't leave it too late - and make sure you stay in current practice. I've heard of even ME pilots who could have obtained a full ATPL with 1 exam, Class 1 medical and CAA-monitored IR on type being stuffed because they fannied about and left it too late - then found themselves on a ground tour.....:hmm:

Beagle - on your last point.....I assume once you have 'bagged' the licence via the ME Mil Pilot route then there are no 'currency' issues if you subsequently end up on a Ground Tour and then decide to leave??

Or do you have to finish your service career in a current flying appointment?

The licence is valid for 5 years; any Rating contained in the Licence is valid in accordance with that specific Rating.

Regarding the IR, it's slightly more complex. But basically:

Don't let the IR lapse by 5 years (from the expiry of your last military IR) or you'll have to sit another one with a CAA Examiner.

Really don't let the IR lapse by 7 years or more or you'll have to take all the lovely exams.

Once you've opened an ATPL, if you wish to have it reissued at the 5 year point all you need is a valid medical and a valid Type or Class Rating - I had mine reissued with just a SEP Class Rating, FI and IMC....

Normally you will get your licence and then go looking for a job. Certain airlines may wish you to have a current IR when you apply - but not all. When you do your airline Type Rating, it will include the requirements for an IR in any case.

SonicStomp- definitely some airlines out there that won't touch you with a barge pole if you are not in "current flying practice." Not sure if the definitions vary from airline to airline, or if it is laid down in LASORS. BA wouldn't look at a former colleague of mine as he hadn't flown for more than 12 months.
I didn't have a current civvy IR when I started earlier this year- BA were initially very reluctant to take me on, but I got the relevant paragraph from LASORS from a helpful man at the CAA and that seemed to satisfy them.
WBC- Bristol is fantastic. I used ELC to do the courses. I had to take leave to do them, although someone from (I think) Lyneham was there on duty and was therefore eligible for travelling expenses (or whatever they are called under JPA). From a personal point of view, I found having the licence in the bag as early as poss gave me more options. Join BALPA now and get yor name down for the Employment Conference. This is attended by pretty much all the airlines and is extremely useful for a. knowing when to apply b. knowing who (and probably more importantly who not) to apply for c. sizing up the competition and d. getting a flavour of requirements etc. As far as the short haul/long haul debate goes, I'm lucky enough to fly a mixture of both. I'm finding short haul at LHR a real chafe at the moment, some guys who have been with the airline years reckon its the worst its been. Having said that, the destinations are fun as are the people (in general). Long haul can be tiring (especially the transatlantic stuff). Other top tips? Interview technique courses a must- there are loads out there, I used Airline Orientation Training. They were excellent although they have a different name now (suggest you google it, if there's no joy pm me and I'll dig out the number)
Good luck!

WBC,

I believe you can still get a credit for MCC as long as you have >350hrs multicrew. Clearly that would depend on which FJ you flew.
Application for credit to be signed by CO to verify hours.
:ok:

SS

"I believe you can still get a credit for MCC as long as you have >350hrs multicrew."

No such credit mentioned in LASORS F10. Only QSP(A)s "who have completed an operational conversion unit course on a multi-pilot aeroplane type, and have not less than 600 hours operational experience as a pilot on such a type, will be credited the MCC course.

Well pointed out Sir.

Having now read F10, (my old memory was from the old tgda flow chart) it seems a shame to read that...

...and realise that there surely must be more crew co-operation between a front seat and rear seat FJ crew, than that which goes on in a Gazelle on NVG or a Lynx tootaling around Northern Germany.

Sorry WBC, another course I'm afraid.

Get your CAA Class 1 Medical from a service MO, it will be a lot cheaper than going to Gatwick for your initial issue. Not sure which MOs still do them, but I'm sure someone will be able to tell you. IIRC the MO at Valley would be a good bet.

As for MCC, I'd recommend Oxford. It's done on a B737-400, gives you some big jet flying and glass cockpit experience. It's a bit more pricey but will help if you go for the BA sim as that is in a B747 and the cockpits are similar. I know of people that got exemption from the MCC and subsequently failed sim checks. The MCC will give you an idea of what airline flying is about.

You'll only need to do a bridging exam and 4 ATPL exams becasue of your >2000hrs. Use Bristol GS.

Good Luck, maybe see you down route sometime....

Thanks for all the replies and PMs so far - especially BEagle for not biting. Good work!

I was worried about the keep current bit, as I am in a ground tour! However careful inspection of LASORS (right riveting read) reveals that all you need (in my FJ, >2000hrs case) is 12 hours in the last 12 months (mil or civ) of which 6 needs to be PIC. So even if I dont fly again, my IR will cover most of that - I probably just need to do a few PIC hours on something cheap. Also need a flight with a civ or mil instructor (IR) and 12 take-offs and landings. So worst case a couple of hundred more quid.

Also found that you can use SLCs to do the exams - even if you have used the resettlement grant for the GS. Also you get 7 travel warrants.

Interesting comment on pilot recruitment, Beagle. Obviously the market is very bouyant at the moment - are you confident that it will remain so for another 2 years? I believe both BA and Virgin have pretty much stopped recruitment for the time being?

:)

Bristol Ground School is the place for groundschool. It has been some years since I went through the mill myself but Alex,Dick and co got my befuddled brain round the concepts of the subject matter and even coaxed a couple of straight 100% passes out of me!!!

On the IR side of things a lot, if not the majority, of guys I know went through Airways Flight Training at Exeter (sadly bereft of the lovely Pauline nowadays). Totally in tune with what the guys need, time scales et al and they got me through in 5 sorties and a test (thanks :D ).

DD

Thanks - I've heard that spending a bit more on the MCC is worthwhile and also heard Oxford mentioned. Do you know roughly how much that costs? EDIT - got off my arse (well figuratively) and looked it up - £2895.

Downroute...:ok:

KY - how many hours were the 6 trips, roughly how much did it cost and how long (in days) was it?

Thanks

Airways Flight Training at Exeter is the place for the IR if your interested. Run by Brian Marindin who is ex RN Sea Hawk pilot and Ex Cathy Pacific pilot. Top bloke who will get you sorted and has trained what seems to be the entire military escapee branch. You can ring him on (01392) 364216

As to the recruiting, BA has just been elevated from 'junk bond' status to investment status, what this means that BA can now invest in new aircraft. There is talk of a 'fleet expansion' although the company talks it down by suggesting that the new aircraft are to replace older hulls. At the moment just about all recruiting is onto the airbus fleet as all LH fleets are being served by internal movement.

Virgin, as far as know, has more A340 orders coming in possibly at 12-14 crews per aircraft.

The BA interview process favours ex-mil pilots as it is very similar to interview processes that we have all been through before.

Good luck!

Wobble,

PM for you.

BEags, I have just renewed my ATPL after just under 5 years with a SEP rating/Class 1 medical. Are you saying that if I don't get another IR within the next 2 years, despite my renewed license stating that it runs out in 2012, I will need to do the lot again! :eek: I'm sorry if that is a numpty question, but dementia does seem to loom on my personal horizon...:uhoh:

TIA...;)

Licences and Ratings are NOT the same thing.

From LASORS E1.5:


To renew an IR(A) that has expired by less than
examiner.


5 years but less and 7 years, applicants must:
preparation as a Skill Test in an aeroplane with a


7 years, applicants must: For single-pilot
knowledge examinations.

WannaBe,

Lots of good stuff on here especially the licensing pitfalls and tips. As to some of the things you need to do after that little hurdle, here are a few things that worked for me after leaving the RAF FJ world 18 months ago after 18 years.

AFT at Exeter highly recommended. Lots of Civ and ex-mil chaps who are all very good at teaching you what you need to know to pass an IR safely but in minimum time/cost. They recognise that you are an experienced mil pilot but that you will know cock-all about NDB holds and assymetric ILS' in a Beech Duchess (I certainly didn't). Most guys seem to do it in around 12 hrs or less which included a ME Skills test. Two yrs ago it all cost about £4k and if you're still tight for cash you can stay in the RM Officers' Mess at Lympstone.

RAFCARS worked well for me. Used it on my BA app and got a call for interview 4 weeks later. Also very surprised to get a call out of the blue from someone at Cathay and at Netjets so the networking thing seemed to be in operation here. If, for example you are going for BA, it will also allow you to go for interview up to 2 yrs (I think) before your exit and then await a sim date in the knowledge you have that little hurdle sorted. Agree with comment elsewhere that the BA tests are similar to those in the RAF. By lucky chance I was interviewed by the chap in BA who runs recruitment and they seem very pro ex-RAF. There will always be exceptions to this and you do occasionally hear stories of some ex-mil tossers about the place but thats life in a big company!:rolleyes:

Did the MCC at Jetlinx. http://www.jetlinx.co.uk/index1.htm.
Can't praise them enough. Planned to do it immediately before the BA sim. It is done at Cranebank with BA instructors using broadly BA SOPs on either the A320 or B757 - your choice. It seemed a tad more expensive than some others at £3300 but was worth the long-term investment IMHO. To keep cost down agin you can stay at RAF Uxbridge or use some resettlement accom money here where hotels are more expensive than around Exeter. For this or the IR you can use ELCs.

A few guys I know joined some other very good companies at the same time. Never here too many gripes about Virgin for sure. In BA, now that the BARP pension is just about sorted, once you throw in a bit of monthly Air Force Pension, greater salary, time off etc etc you realise that life is pretty good on the outside.:ok:

Good luck with the whole process and feel free to pm me if necessary.

Cheers, SG

WBC,
Please can you post the LASORS link, I too am in a ground tour with an ATPL(H) issued as a 10 year licence. If the 12 hours, 6 PIC applies to me also, I will leave it until resettlement.
SL

Beags and guys - thanks for the replies.
At the moment my game plan is to stay in the service until my 38/16 point.
I am currently 31 yrs old - have got about 3000 military, of which about 1000 hrs are PIC on one of the approved ME types.
My understanding of LASORS is that all I need to do is the Air Law Exam, a Class I Medical and arrange for a CAA IRE to 'observe' a military IRT on my jet.
My question is therefore : do I wait until nearer my exit date before bothering with my licence due to possible 'expiry issues' when I disappear into ground tours or get it now and just attempt to get into a flying tour to keep it current before leaving??

Thanks all. Very useful stuff, I appreciate it. Obviously every answer raises 2 more questions! Apart from the BA managed path deal, I am assuming 20 months before I can work for them and no licence is too early for other airlines - particularly Netjets and Virgin?

Lasors link: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...detail&id=1591
Long document but well laid out and pretty clear.

Thanks guys for all the advice..

Basically I am very happy in the service at the moment but thinking seriously about options if career doesn't move in the right direction in next 12 months.

On the face of it I suspect the more flexible and varied nature of NetJets will suit me more than scheduled airline work. Happy with the 5 days on the road nature of the work as well. Swifter time to command is a big attraction for me as well, I don't like the idea of being stuck in the RHS irrespective of ability for x number of years because of seniority constraints.

I would be interested to hear of ex-Mil experience of life in NetJets vs Airline etc.....

Hope this forum remains applicable to my inquiry.

An additional bit of info, if you get military credits for exams, a JAR ATPL issued with credits may only be useful in a JAR member state. Some other agencies will not issue a validation on a licence with credits. For example, the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department want to see a list of exams taken with pass marks. Creidts are not good enough, and you will have to take the relevant exams in Hong Kong. One or two pilots slipped through the net when credits were first being given, but these are exceptions.

Something to bear in mind if your aim is to work overseas.

Dan - the last time I spoke with the relevant bod at the CAA he assured me that your HK mob had now been put right about this.

That was a couple of years ago now, so I don't know what the current state of play is.

The JAR-FCL ATPL(A) is lawful within JAA-land airlines whether or not it was obtained with theory credits for military service. It is licence conversion which may prove difficult; if you wish to fly for non-EU airlines then check first!

Beags,
If you try and apply to Cathay online, they ask on the website whether you have passed all the ATPL exams, if you cannot tick yes to this box, the application will not go any further, so I cannot see a way around this.
Unless someone else from HK can help?
Thanks

Cathay
 

Beags said: "There is some doubt about whether the HK mob will accept 'fATPLs' obtained with theory credit still".
I've recently been in touch with a Cathay training captain who told me that the airline is accepting ex-FJ guys on the back of the mil bridge package.
Good thread, this - lots of gen rather than the normal ranting.
GnP

Get cracking NOW!
 

WannaBeCiv,

Bristol Groundschool: I believe, as I have said many times before, that this place is unbeatable for military guys wanting to pass the ATPL exams. Alex Whittingham and team are masters at teaching you how to pass the exams. Sure, you will learn useful stuff on the way to that goal, but you won't dwell unnecessessarily on trivia getting to that point (although the exams do contain a lot of trivia you will never see or hear of again).

I can't help feeling that having ALL the requirements met before applying for jobs makes it much easier for those prospective employers to gauge what/who you are. Without the ATPL in your sticky mitts, you may be viewed as no better than an enthusiastic aviation buff who might get job as a pilot ...... some day. IMHO.

If you are only 2 years from ejecting from the RAF then you have left yourself some work to do. Prepare yourself mentally for some hard work. You need to arrange all the 'bits' that people have mentioned here as well as apply for potential jobs and ramp-up for the whole leaving the RAF thing. You are going to experience stress, I think. I had my license sorted and issued 3 years before my exit date but the last year alone, with job apps, resettlement, renew IRT and Class 1 Med, leaving RAF etc etc was quite a rollercoaster. Get cracking with it NOW! Just because your CV gets out there does not mean prospective employers will come back to you by next return of post. I had 2 offers for interviews from major far east companies nearly a year after making the applications ....... and I had already been in employment with a UK major for several months!

As I have now had a resettlement briefing, I will add some info that others may find useful:

1. A gotcha for Sqn Ldrs - 38/16 is only an option point not an exit point, so unless you officially declare that you are definitely leaving, then you cannot technically get any resettlement benefits. Most resettlement staff seem to use a bit of common sense and judgement on this one. Not a problem for Flt Lts as it is an exit point.

2. I think that the best approach for paying for stuff is:

a. Ground school (Bristol gone up to £820, btw) pay using £534 resettlement grant (Individual Refund of Training Costs grant). For the exams (4 @ £62 each) you can use SLCs (max £175/year), as well as claim the travel, subsistence and accom if required.
b. IR - pay using ELCs (£1000 if before 1 Apr 08, £2000 after) - if it is an "approved" cse - I assume Exeter is? Also can claim travel, subsistence and accom.
c. MCC as for IR, but must be in next financial year to use ELCs again. Anyone know if any courses are MOD "approved"?

3. For any time you are away, you can use Graduated Resettlement Time (GRT - 35 days for 38/16 people), so you are "on duty".

Hope this is helpful, it is correct to the best of my knowledge - but ensure you check everything yourself before commiting money or making career changing decisions!

Airways Flight Training at Exeter is listed as an ELCAS-registered 'provider':

http://www.enhancedlearningcredits.c...ct=3&Submit=Go

For the IR, Multiflight at Leeds are also accredited for ELCs. Trap for players - make sure you go through your resettlement advisors for every step of the booking process or you will almost certainly mess up the onerous paperwork & invalidate your claim for wonga under ELC.

Paperwork
 

Just got my Bridging exam results today :ok:
I think that I have got all the info on the paperwork required to send off to the CAA.
See list below from Form SRG1130 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1130.PDF
Has anyone got any top tips on presentation of logbooks or has anyone come across any pitfalls in the application process or had paperwork denied etc?
Regards,
Bayete
Link to forms here http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...pe=subcat&id=8
Extract from SRG1130:
To apply for a JAR-FCL CPL(A) or ATPL(A) you should enclose the following documentation; failure to submit all of the required
documentation may lead to a delay in the processing of your application.
i) Form FCL 508 (SRG\1106) ‘Flight Radio Telephony Operator’s Licence – Grant or Renewal Application’.
• Complete Sections 1 and 7 only
ii) Valid UK JAR-FCL Class One Medical Certificate. Holders of a JAR-FCL Class One Medical Certificate issued by another JAA Member
State should either contact the CAA Aeromedical Centre at Gatwick or refer to the CAA website www.caa.co.uk for details on
acceptability and mutual recognition.
• Validity must be sufficient to cover the anticipated licence issue date.
iii) Evidence of Identity.
• Passport or Birth Certificate only. Photocopies are acceptable provided that the relevant information is clearly presented and
certified by OC Flying/Squadron Commander.
iv) Copy of theoretical examination result(s)
v) Form FCL 172 ‘Application and Report Form for the CPL(A) Skill Test’ (if applicable)
vi) Form FCL 173 (SRG\1170) ‘Application and Report Form for the Instrument Rating Flight Test’.
vii) Form LST/LPC SPA/MPA (SRG\1119)
viii) All flying logbooks
• Service Pilots are not normally required to submit Service logbooks provided this form is countersigned by the Commanding Officer
at Section 10, but may be requested to do so. All civilian logbooks must accompany this application.
• If actual Service logbooks are not submitted, applicants must forward copies of their Service logbook showing evidence of a current
aircraft annual check flight, end of ME or FW OCU summary (as appropriate) most recent montly flying summary, pilot qualifications
page and instrument rating page. All copies must be certified as true copies by the applicant’s Commanding Officer. A Unit seal or
stamp must cover the Commanding Officer’s signature.

I followed this procedure and received my ATPL about 2 weeks later:

Service Pilots are not normally required to submit Service logbooks provided this form is countersigned by the Commanding Officer
at Section 10, but may be requested to do so. All civilian logbooks must accompany this application.
• If actual Service logbooks are not submitted, applicants must forward copies of their Service logbook showing evidence of a current
aircraft annual check flight, end of ME or FW OCU summary (as appropriate) most recent montly flying summary, pilot qualifications
page and instrument rating page. All copies must be certified as true copies by the applicant’s Commanding Officer. A Unit seal or
stamp must cover the Commanding Officer’s signature.

There was a question about my 'annual check' as my unit conducted this every 18mths but the CAA sorted it out.

Boinggggg - for those who were looking for this.

Interestingly, NetJets now seem to be offering cadetships to the right people. As a result, some who would otherwise have joined the RAF have decided to apply for such cadetships. Mainly because:

The aircraft are less than 40 years old; I'm told the average is < 2 yrs old
The management care for the employees' interests
When away ovrnight, it's in hotels in nice places, not tents in desert $hitholes
The company accepts that people have normal life aspirations

See http://www.oxfordaviation.net/netjets/nj_info.htm

Can someone (you there BEagle?) confirm/correct me on my understanding of validity of exam passes etc?

Once you have passed all the exams, they are valid for 3 years, so need to apply for a CPL/IR within that time, otherwise need to do some/all again.

Once you have done your IR and got your CPL/IR ("frozen" ATPL) then they are valid for 7 years. Presumably if you haven't upgraded to ATPL by that time you have to do some/all again?

Lastly the probably unanswerable question - how will this be affected by the change from CAA to JAA for FCL?

Thanks

I am sure BEagle knows all those answers, but most of them can be found in Lasors 2007, if you google it, it will help you out.
I cannot remember all the answers myself, sorry.

The information in my post is from my interpretation of LASORS 2007 (sadly I have it bookmarked!) - but like all these documents it is not particularly clear or well defined.

Just read the section, and i think its a yes on both counts.

WBC,

I don't think that is correct. An ATPL is valid for 5 years from date of issue. I got mine license issued 3 years before leaving the RAF, and 2 years into being employed in civvie street I had to renew it.

Check carefully on the:
Make sure it isn't 'have license issued within 3 years', as opposed to 'applied for'.

Be very wary about thinking that you have plenty of time in those 3 years to get it done. You'll get distracted and suddenly find that you are in a stressed out rush! Don't go there - the 'system' can be tardy so do it all at earliest opportunity, really!

Class 1 medical examinations, for 40 year-olds and over, used to be only vaild for 6 months, but someone saw sense and extended it to 12 months (again?). Get yourself a medical to have the license issued, and if you're not fussed, let it lapse (within the restrictions mentioned by BEagle and others) until you're ready to start doing the job apps. Get another up to date medical exam and IR, and you should be 'fresh' to hit the market. Although, you may find an annual Class 1 (and IR?), whilst still in the RAF, to be no burden - your choice.

But start applying for jobs earlier rather than later - you'll be surprised how slow some of the responses can be. As I wrote in an earlier posting on this thread "I had 2 offers for interviews from major far east companies nearly a year after making the applications ....... and I had already been in employment with a UK major for several months!"

Having left 5 years ago after a mostly FJ career, I can assure you that there is such a shortage of pilots globally, that you should have little difficulty finding a job. Out here in HKG, all 5 airlines are looking for folk - however, as a previous reply stated, do look very carefully at all aspects of a job offer, particularly if you are considering a move overseas.

If you are interested in HKG, check out the Fragrant Harbour Forums - all is not sweetness and light out here at the moment! However, you will find a very large number of ex-RAF FJ pilots at both CX and KA: both are recruiting but both Companies have big issues with rostering and pay.

When I left, there were no exemptions granted to military pilots, but I know guys in both companies who have joined within the last 6 months with recently issued JAR licences.
:ok:

In simple aircrew terms, you must apply for your CPL/IR within 36 months from the end of the month in which you gained a full pass in the ATPL exams.

Once you have the CPL, the exams remain valid for ATPL issue for a period of 7 years after the date of the most recent IR revalidation.

Don't try to be a clever clogs and hedge your chances! If you want the security of a CPL/IR, don't do it earlier than is reasonably sensible. You may be lucky and be able to claim exmption on the grounds of a recent military IR qualifiction, but Sod's Law says you'll be on a ground tour and might then have to do all the exams again if you go over the 7 year limit.

Regarding validity periods, licences and ratings are different. A JAR-FCL licence of whatever breed has to be re-issued every 5 years. Whereas the different Class, Type and IR have individual validity periods - as do other ratings.

For example, my ATPL is valid for 5 years, my UK IMC Rating is valid for 25 months from date of test, my FI Rating is valid for 3 years, my SEP Class Rating for 2 years and my Examiner authorisation for 3 years - but not the same 3 years as the FI Rating!

No real snag for people in the airlines, as their routine LPCs take care of both IR and Type Rating revalidation requirements. But licence re-issue is easily overlooked; in more enlightened days the CAA BCPL, CPL or ATPL was valid for 10, not 5 years - and the PPL was, of course, a lifetime licence.