Even though I am not aircrew, I understand and agree why flying pay is paid - unless pay and conditions (and job satisfaction) are comparable with civi street people will leave. Although there are only a finite number of flying jobs in civi street so I doubt everyone would get one.

What I don't agree with is paying peanuts to employ complete muppets in IPTs who continually mess things up and cause massive delays to projects, not to mention the financial waste that occurs. When will the MOD wake up and stop employing incompetant civil serpants who are as easy to get rid of as a dose of herpes and instead employ talented individuals at the same rates as industry. The money and time saved on projects would more than outweigh the costs.

Slightly off thread I know, but I've had a few fighting beers.

Never lol not of interest to me. Why drop to the bottom of the ladder again.

Actually, you spelt 'your' 'yor'.

Intrigued as to the nature of your business. I do hope it doesn't involve customer service as I fear you are sorely lacking.

So why bleat on like a spoilt brat when you weren't interested in the first place. The flying pay issue as so many have said here is a specialist pay that is paid throughout all three services.

The other specialist pay includes

Diving pay
Submarine pay
Nuclear Propulsion pay
Submarine Escape Tank Training pay
Hydro graphic pay
Mountain Leader pay
Parachute pay
High Altitude Parachute pay

For a SNCO you don't appear to be very bright.

Good banter chaps. Nice to see a fighting attitude.

But come on we all know the pay out side is better we are just geting bribes to stay in (this trade that trade each year as things come and go.)

Had a few fighting G and T's here too lol (god and not a zob (G and T what next))

Over the fence is a big world go for it one day you are going to be kicked out make sure you escape on your terms............. look after the wife and kids and those below you in rank. :ok:

Now then, toddle off to bed like the good boy that you are.....after all, you've got many people to look after 'to the max' tomorrow.
Sweet dreams.

Shall I leave a light on so you don't have nightmares about all those nasty pilots types?

Every business is run on customer service... :ugh: and some of us don't need to advertise word of mouth ...is all you need and a little bit of time... happy days.

What is that supposed to mean? How do you advertise then?

'not a pilot'

Damn, sorry, I could only get it into 3 words....

Looking forward to your FOI return....SIR.

FOI act your dream come true only costs a second class stamp (or could have put that a (ground crew stamp.))

What? You do realise that drug taking is frowned upon in the Armed Forces.

FOI requests cap at £600 per request. That is, if the time taken to answer it equates to more than £660 worth of 'company time' you may reject it. That doesn't buy you a lot of aircrew time now does it?:hmm:

Like i have never seen a pi$$ed up Pilot taxi to the end of the runway then come back saying smell of smoke in the cockpit cant fly ...........Grow up....

blogger,

If YOU were putting in so many hours and working so hard in the mob as you think others should, how come you had enough spare time and energy to run your own business? I take it this wasn't done in the Queen's time.......

Blogger,

You're a disrespectful arsehole.

L Met

It seems to be all about the hours for Blogger....

How many hours would you like each pilot to fly before receiving a day's rate of FP ?

Strikes me this Blogger fellow is a prime target for some kind of temptation from Johnny Foreigner... Disaffection or something? Any scruffers about?

Well, my solution is to clap him in irons until he cheers up a little, because he's clearly a grumpy old git!

Blogger

Honest question - who looks after your business whilst you are out of area or on detachment (or, god forbid, holiday)? All the business gurus will tell you that it takes considerable effort to build a ltd company up to having a turnover sufficient to be VAT registered without substantial effort 365 days a year (and doing this after a full day in HMs employ as well, together with your fair share of detachments and out of area stints.....).

W

blogger

I've earned plenty of respect throughout my career, thank you. Both as a SNCO and as an officer.

And despite your crowings about just how good you are, 22 years and still only a C/T? You can't be THAT good can you? Or you'd be a WO or commissioned.

And I still hope your business dies on it's arse.

But I suppose you could always auction your QGJM and LSGCM on eBay to keep it afloat.:E

The RAF doesn't need dinosaurs like you any more. If you've had time to run up a VAT registered Ltd Co, then you're worth even less to the RAF than your ill-educated and vitriolic posts suggest. Do remember to let us know when it's your last day. We could all raise our glasses and drink to the passing of another old-school whinging, bigotted dinosaur who give groundcrew a bad name. Unless of course, we're on Ops.

And Ops aren't just something you have in hospitals.

I wonder how many fast jet types joined up because they were going to get flying pay? I imagine that salary was the last thing in their mind.

Aircrew should be rewarded for the role they are in with an appropriate salary. Flying pay appears to be a bonus just for carrying out their job.

Gents,
Suspect Blogger is on a fishing trip here - rest assured that the vast majority of us fully understand the fg pay issue. There is no real lack of respect etc for aircrew (at least in the GR4 world) generically - apart from the odd arse that would be disliked no matter what he did for a living! But, some of us did work hard at school and made the choice to work on ac rather than fly them - and would not swap even if given the option.

I can't believe we have given this clown so much air time (if you'll pardon the pun.) This guy must fish for the tri-services! Everyone with an ounce of sense knows the reasons for flying pay. The guy is all that's wrong with parts of the RAF nowadays, the sooner people like him toddle off to civvy street the better.
By the way mate i did 35 hours this month. For every hour flown i estimate a further 3 for planning, pre flight instruction, briefing, de-briefing and report writing. In addition to that, i like everyone else has squadron additional duties (i currently have 4) and Station duties (currently 2) to keep me busy. I'm in at 7.30 and leave about 5.30. Oh and unlike the rest of the unit, we don't shut down for an hour at lunch!
Crap, have i just bitten as well?
Oh one last thing, if i'd joined for the money, with or without flying pay, i'd be in the wrong job. Some of us actually joined to make a difference and do a job that we and our families are proud of. People like you Mr Blogger, who come on here and spout your poison against any trade group because of your bitterness and ignorance, quite frankly do a disservice to the vast majority of decent, hard working people in the the whole of the armed forces.
Please now muster up whatever dignity you can and toddle off to civvy street.
Mini rant over.

Blogger - FYI the VAT turnover threshold is £61,000, so while you may earn a decent %ge of that, by the time you've covered pension, healthcare and other benefits you'll be struggling....

I flew 44 hours one month while on EFTS - how does that sound? In my green phase I got para pay every day, but I didn't jump out of a plane more than four times a year except one year.

And now I have a business.....more than most aircrew.....zzzzzzzzzz :E

Captain Kirk. You are on very strong drugs if you think a Sqn Proj O adds anything at all to a deployment / exercise. You'll find your UMO & the Stn Movers do it all.

Blogger

As a mere dependent, I am, yet again, amazed that someone who 'works' in the same organisation, namely the Royal AIR Force, as of one of those aircrew Johnnies you so despise has so little comprehension of what they do and how hard they work. This is quite apart from your lack of understanding of flying pay.

My husband generally works a 10-hour day and that does not include the work he brings home to do, more often than not working until late into the night. He certainly does not have the spare time to run a business. In fact it would be nice if he had some spare time to spend with his family.

I also struggle to understand how you come to be so bitter towards aircrew. The aircrew cadre is generally made up of the most self-deprecating, unpretentious and good humoured bunch of highly intelligent, highly motivated, hard working and, perhaps most pertinent to this discussion, highly trained people you could find. Yes, they are confident but they have to be in order to do what they do. They are also, thankfully, quite free from the huge chip that you struggle to carry on your shoulder every day you go to 'work'.

Mr C Hinecap. Is that so. Could you please direct me to the movers at Odiham? Seems we've missed something there for the last gazzillion ops/dets we've been on!

Movers
 

Ah yes the movers do it all!!

Drive into planes, a VC10 is so hard to see must be the colour and then a 747, must have been the wind that blighted their eyesight causing so many people to be delayed in MPA.

Lost and damaged suitcases, delayed flights, equipment not tuning up on ops........... yes the movers make all the difference

Movers...
 

...they really come into their own when they get you to put your hold luggage in the night before departure and still get you to report 3 hours before take-off and then give you a hard time for having too heavy a flight bag (that's because it's carrying the change of clothes and my washing kit you forced me to keep because you made me give you my suitcase last night!)...:ugh:

Sorry, thread creep...:E

Sorry but
 

..........In my honest opinion the sqn UCO's have the highest PEAK workloads in the run up to and recovery from det's (beentheredonethatetc) as well as having their primary engineering duties to carry out.

However sitting in the PBF as Sengos buffer (LOL) was a real eye opener, the problem was that on the sqn the guys were not aware of what was involved. A program was initiated to bring the guys in and let them see what was actually went on, even some of the most "hardend" lineys did gain a grudging respect, most realised that it wasn't all "tea and medals" and appreciated the opportunity to see the other half. The result was a much happier sqn that pulled together more.

And the embittered dinosaurs were even more isolated, which was a bonus, apart from the fact thay they held sway over our progression :sad::sad:

MoJo

Mr. C. Hinecap "You'll find your UMO & the Stn Movers do it all."

Yes, the UMO does do it - but as an SH pilot I had that job as a secondary duty.... and what are these "movers" of which you speak?

Blogger - having recently returned from four months away on Ops, I have to say that I find your attitude very sad.

Myself and my colleagues came under contact on most flying days and I for one can say that I most certainly earned my flying pay tens times over (as did your RAF brethren (front and rear) flying Chinooks into some very dangerous locations).
You do yourself and them a complete dis-service. It isn't all about retention. I also acknowledge with the greatest respect the contribution made by those that enable us to earn our flying pay - I very much doubt that you represent them.

What will you say when your children ask what you did in the 'war'..? You certainly won't be able to say that you were a 'team player'

Whats really funny blogger is that I don't even get flying pay but as NCA still earn a pot more money than a TG1 WO..............and I haven't flown for 3 months............there's no justice mate is there

How do you work that out then? Your obviously on PAS which is effectively flying pay by a different name:hmm:

Not like in my day...
 

Is it me or is trolling getting easier these days. Just type in flying pay or aircrew rations and watch the bandwidth fill up. Now in the old days, you had to pick something imaginative, like the aircrew leather jacket. Why I remember when....:zzz:

What a bizarre bloke. Why make such a big fuss about being VAT registered and the perks that entails. I'm ex-aircrew and now run my own company. Of course I'm VAT Registered, the threshold is so low that only low paid toilet cleaners wouldn't be (maybe Blogger is Cesspit Sid). As for the perks (VAT free computers etc)bloody hell mate if that's the best perk you've got from running your own business then you're doing something very seriously wrong.

Maybe the problem is that you never really learned that genuine hard work brings serious rewards. Those 9-5 days still a killer are they fella?

No not really as they don't receive flying pay, only a daily rate of pay. Flying pay being a specialist pay to do with retention against an equal civilian job could be removed at any time. PAS could be stopped but those already on it would not go back to PAY2000.

Is flying pay really for retention???? I was under the impression it was there to cover additional costs for things such as enhanced life insurance etc.?????

Oh dear - Over £40 per day flying pay and free rations when completing my primary duty of operating a large aircraft in hostile enviroments.

I actually love the job and the people I work with but this, and the aircrew ration thread, have made me realise how little respect the vast majority of non-aircrew types actually have for the flying branches.

It saddens me when I think of all the good times I used to have that are now being eroded through petty arguments.

Aircrew get free rations when flying - deal with it.
Aircrew get flying pay, per day - deal with it.

To all those people in the RAF bleating about the above - have a hard think about your loyalties. You are all in a job to support aircraft flown by aircrew. With the current op tempo added to the moaning and winging from non-aircrew types you really should start looking for other employment because at current exit versus recruitment rates the RAF will be 800 frontline pilots short by 2012.

Not enough aircrew=less flying=less airframes required=less support personnel.

Just grow up and stop bleating - or if you can't then just f**k off and stop dragging this once-proud service through the mud.

Well, having read this load of :mad:, I think that Trukkie has it the wrong way round.

I think it should read: "have made me realise how little respect the vast majority of aircrew types actually have for the non-flying branches.":ok:


It is a good job we will be 800 front line pilots short by 2012, as we haven't enough aircraft for them to fly in, and we cannot afford their free food etc etc.

Maybe, in 2012, aircrew will earn their flying pay (or be selected for PAS), for actually flying, lets take all those desk bound pilots and strap their backside to a Martin Baker in an aeroplane (Or just a seat in the imaginary A400M), and fill their empty desks with Engineers.

We may even get better specified aircraft for the very cleverer did lots betterer at skool, and well balanced (chip on both budgie wings) type chaps & chappesses to fly around the sky in.

Hand grenade lobbed, and I am running as fast as my legs will carry me.:)

Blogger you minion - Would you like a loan?

I cant seem to get to my ferrari through all these used £20s.

???
 

ZH......

WTF do you know about hand grenades?????

Ithought you wore blue and lived behind the wire protected by the green troops who earn their money.

Or are you Walter Mitty in disguise?

Now come on, come back with some war stories you REMF.