GeoIntel: Saddam realised that the Iranians were the problem back in the early 80's and decided to invaid. Twenty years later we are back to square 1 - thanks to US.

You may ask, what has this got to do with Nimrod and pprune? I say everything. Nimrod is just part of the big picture. I get very angry because 14 good men lost their lives, and good men and women lose their lives on a regular basis; not defending Queen and country but (1) fighting poppy farmers that the CIA trained to fight the Russians and (2) fighting an enemy in Iraq that wasn't there before 2002.

We have limited manpower and money, it should not be wasted fighting Bush's war.

And before you say anything about "knocking" our troops, I am not doing that. Our troops are the best in the world, it is just that they are being directed by fools.

DV

MODE-S
 

If anyone wants to talk to me about MODE-S and the Nimrod fleet please PM me.

May be of use:

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=810

http://www.eurocontrol.int/msa/publi.../homepage.html

S_H

Thanks for the information S-H however I am more concerned with if it is being fitted on the Nimrod.

I know a new EU ruling comes into force with regard to aircraft safety. All aircraft with a maximum take-off mass in excess of 5700 kg,need to have a MOde S transponder fitted by 31st March 2008 to fly in European airspace.

Is the Nimrod having it fitted?

Distant Voice
 

Agreed! It has everything to do with what you said, but reality is much worse. This isn't even the "US's" war for the vast majority are against it, and many more military units and hardware will be sacrificed before it ends. You are now at the core issue behind this original thread! And for the record it is Cheney's war.

GI

Take it elsewhere will you. Either to another forum or start another thread, but don't please don't turn this one into a political debate for you to voice your irrelevant (to this thread) opinions on.

You are wrong about getting to the "core issue behind this original thread". If you can't work out the core issues for this thread, and the others I referred you to, then you really should stick to organising tea parties. And if you can't be bothered to read the rest of the thread, because your'e too busy cosying up to people, then it's probably best not to bother at all.

S_H

S_H

You are out of order. The whole thing is political.

DV

DV

A fairly predictable, shallow and easy to make response. Yes, you can easily say "the whole thing is political", you could just as easily say "it's all down to money" couldn't you ? Then we could all quieten down and enjoy/suffer the status quo.

Wouldn't it better to keep the global political debates for another forum/thread ?

S_H

Herr Helmut
 

Ja mein Helmut. Ve should worry about the engineering specs and operating rules of der ovens and not vorry about these lines of screaming people. Ve are adhering to SOP's and ve should ignore and NEVER speak politics.

Sorry for being so flippant with such a serious subject Helmut, and yes there needs to be another thread for the political discourse so you can quietly grease your nipples and ignore the dangers to our front line military, and the population of our major cities.

Organizing Tea Parties? With the world spiraling out of control I may just take your advice and do that. Earl Grey anyone?

You could answer a question for me as I pop off and cosy up to talkative politicians, "Why was XV230 and other Nimrods being wasted over Afghanistan and not tracking North Korean ships." If you don't understand the question, ask the Israelis. Why are we penny-pinching the only platform that can potential save London?

Clue:You won't find that answer on any Health and Safety poster, it's political!

GeoIntel

What an interesting home page you have.

Born in Wakefield, Yorkshire in the industrialized North of England he has worked in every major city in Europe, and fully appreciates the culture and traditions of Europe. He served in the Royal Air Force and worked closely with all military services, giving him a firm grounding in leadership and protocol. For President Reagan he visited over 125 Embassies and Consulates developing Public Diplomacy networks.
He has spoken at the United Nations on five occasions, testified to the US Congress and keynoted conferences around the world. He now advises corporations, business leaders and government agencies on Corporate Diplomacy and executive entertaining.

No wonder it is all political to you.

The Straw Man
 

Absolutely correct!

You missed serving on the Air Safety Group in the House of Commons, and teaching hundreds of senior airline and military captains in safe flight operations in Dallas, TX, when I left the dirty world of politics and went back to aviation for a while. You also missed being one of the very first Brits to be allowed to Join the US Intel Association.

That does not alter my absolute disgust at what we are doing with our Maritime Intelligence capability, as large amounts of nuclear material is on the market and our recce capability is being used to watch Pongos shooting at mud hut villages.

By the way I would have preferred "negotiating" instead of "entertaining" in that blurb but the more I find absolute ignorance at what is going on in the world I may take SH and my wife's suggestions and focus on bringing people together to discuss and negotiate through "Tea Parties", we do own "Chef's Studio" and LTN. Hmmmm... Earl Grey, and Gourmet sandwiches!

Just remember there is as much gossip and leaking in the UN, Congress and in Parliament as there is in the Crew Room. That's how you get through the "Iron Curtain of Secrecy."

Geointel, I once had a flying instructor who like you was a Yorkshire man. Unlike you he was a man of few words, but I suspect that the ones he would use in your case would have been his trademark "F...ing stuff and f...ing nonsense". It is perhaps for DV to say what "the core issue behind this original thread" might be, seeing as he initiated it, but as I understand it is about the loss of XV230 and the 14 men manning it. That is a big enough issue for myself to grapple with, and I suspect the bulk of the other posters to this thread. For those who might wish to follow you into a digression about "Life, the Universe and the meaning of everything" why not take Safety Helmut's advice and start an appropriate thread of your own?

Good idea, although I like the Tea Party suggestion better.

Carry on Gentlemen!

It seems the thrust of recent posters has been a debate on what this thread is about, each concluding that the others don't understand or are mistaken, thereby successfully avoiding actually discussing the subject of the thread. If you've managed to get all the way through that last sentence can we get back to why 230 exploded?
s37

TD, it is my understanding that Mode S is not going to be fitted to the Nimrod, certainly not by Mar 2008. I also understand that failure to comply with the Mar 2008 deadline would require the Nimrod to take an enormous dogleg to avoid European overland. To get around this problem, I expect an engineering det to be set up at Akrotiri. It would appear that the MoD will do anything to avoid spending any money on this aircraft.

Chugalug2 & RBL
 

Your comment re the RBL covenant is rather out of place. I placed my name on the list, but how many of Joe public had any idea of this. I posted this to all my industry & personal chums who had/have connections with our military (all services, but mainly aviation), they posted. Out of the total who posted, how many were service military, how many ex, and how many non military such as I?

It frightens me that this level of apathy could possibly be self generated, yes the media seems (to me it IS) anti military. This is surely down to the Chiefs of Staff who only bollocks-up when they've the pension!

I thought the RBL did not get the publicity right, maybe this can be reborn with the upcoming Poppy appeal?

Niggilb....and I suppose TCAS is fitted as well!!!!!! most of the sevice fleet did not comply with TCAS when I was flying the routes!!!!!And what else do not only the Nimrod have not fitted but the rest of the Multi engine fleet. This is not a new problem and is one that will be completed only when aircraft are re routed many times and end up unable to complete tasks. Boy am I glad to be out of it now.

Quote:

---

Chugalug2 & RBL

---

Not only out of place, but wrong, as I see that the count on page two of the RBL thread reached in excess of 7500, to plunge to barely 1000 on page three! I can’t find the up to date figure on the RBL site, without going through the signing up process again. So apologies to all for posting data that was both incorrect and out of place!
None the less, my personal experience has been to hear some pretty tough minded attitudes from some civilians, to the extent that those who volunteer for Military Service should know of the risks involved and not complain, or expect special treatment or recognition if they fall foul of them! I feel that there is a message for this thread here if one includes military airworthiness (or the lack thereof) in such “risks”. For that is surely the MOD philosophy that is in play. Personally I find it even more contemptible than the ignorant views expressed above. Perhaps some of those hard minded civilians might think otherwise if they consider that such compromised aircraft are flying over their houses, schools and hospitals as well as over AFG!
As to publicity for the RBL campaign, it was here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6947770.stm

and here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6953500.stm

and here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6992430.stm


Just for starters!

My understanding of Mode S is that, like TCAS, it is required only at or above above FL300. If I'm correct, this is not an issue.

The military exemption is time limited. Nimrods in theatre need to get back to the UK for maintenance. The fuel penalty to avoid Mode S airspace is massive. For this reason an engineering det in Akrotiri is being considered.