Ginseng
 

Many thanks for that and I understand what you are telling me. Making the decision on OTT in the RAF should have been a relatively easy one to make as most people would have known whether they were likely to serve until 55 or indeed if they would want to, I imagine that there was a massive uptake of the offer.

The AAC on the other hand made it perfectly clear, including MCM unit briefings to all non-AH line pilots that the chance of serving past 22 years was effectively NIL. This has to have been a major factor in making the decision to stay on AFPS 75 (well it was the clincher for me). I could probably quantify this by asking how many people (non AH/QHI) elected to change to AFPS 05. I could be wrong but I reckon I could count them on one hand.

I'm sure that when/if VEng is introduced then those same people will feel a bit cheated by the system. This is in fact changing the whole picture and as such I feel it would be only fair to re-offer the pension transfer option. We will not be the only Corps with this problem and I would be interested to know how others are feeling.

I realise what the "rules" state. But I also realise that rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men. If they can change the terms of service then surely they can rethink other options. Actually the offer of VEng combined with the offer to transfer to AFPS05 would be a useful carrot to have in the bag for retention, it puts people straight back into a pension trap that they wouldn't want to leave early.

I also believe that pigs can fly. Of course the easy solution is to make it clear that extended service of any kind is voluntary and as such I can get right back in my little box.

All of course just my useless opinion.

Three guesses what...
 

Hello fellow PPRUNERS!

I have been very active behind the scenes trying to get our voice heard about this pay **** up. To date, I have written to my MP and David Cameron. Also I was able to speak to CGS at length about it and he was shocked at our treatment by DAAVN. I have 'heard' that the SUN newspaper has wind of this also.
I will try every option (including a good moan) before I make the final move and jump ship. Perhaps a joint petition? Or everybody being grounded due to stress? It sounds really desperate (almost mutanous) to say this stuff but what loyalty have DAAVN shown us? Being told to mark time by the Regimental Colonel isn't good enough in 2007, or pretending that they are protecting some from repayments!!!! Bull ***

Ron F
 

Don't get me wrong, I do not disagree with the sentiment of your main argument; it just isn't going to happen.
There probably were differences between the 3 Services in the rate of uptake of AFPS 05, and I don't know what they were, but I can assure you that it was by no means an easy and obvious choice for the majority of RAF personnel. The fact that across the 3 services as a whole, the voluntary transfer rate was limited to about 8% should tell us something about how wonderfully tempting the offer was for the majority of people!
Regards
Ginseng

Lost, me old skip jack son of a sea dog.

Whilst I'm sure the vast majority of people would agree with everything you say, I feel it may be a little harder to actually get them to act. I for one am more than happy to voice my displeasure, and this whole episode is making me think of my next move VERY carefully.

Getting everyones ears to go pop on the same day would certainly make people take note. However, it would only have the desired effect if you can get enough people on board. On paper that shouldn't be too hard, in practice?....

Come to think of it, I am a little bit sniffly today. Is there something going round? :E

:ok:

Lost in Space.

A credit to you my pruning friend. At least someone has the gumption about them to do something, albeit probably to no avail but your stance is credit to you and all that support you (definately me) in this diabolical fiasco. I have just come off operations and due to go back on operations middle of the year and for what reason - to keep this country safe and sound against terrorism.
Now the question is can I really sustain my level head in an active operational area while worrrying about my finances and the lack of the extra money for which I was expecting and based my mortgage on, guess thats not the kind of thing you want in the back of your mind when the bullets are flying. What will the hierachy say "Get on with it" just as they always do but your right, in 2007, this day and age, do I really have to just get on with it, my a--e I do.
All we are is a statistical object and they give not 2 ****es about us so bout time to start thinking of numero uno.
Cannot wait to see the outcome of the letters to MP and Cameron and looks like the sun news will be well worth the 35p a day for the next few weeks.
No wonder they wont let us join a union which I am sure is a violation of my human rights cause they know fine well that they would not get away with any of the s--t that comes our way.

Re the swapping of AFPS75 to 05 or vice versa, the OTT was purely based on a "snapshot" of your circumstances at the time, decisions were irreversible aside from as stated earlier those made redundant within a certain time frame or if you inconveniently died, your spouse could elect to change. The only exception I know of was if your terms of service were incorrect at the decision making time or you had every reason to believe you were under certain terms of service (for example, a signal from your own desk officer telling you that you are now IRC and have a job until your 50th birthday) but then it subsequently turns out that the AAC are not going to conform with the rest of the Army, the OTT board have been sympathetic. What galled me was not a single acknowledgement from anyone accepting the error and recognising the angst it had put so many of us through. It's all about people.

To give all of this some perspective - consider the following:

The following is calculated over the period at which DAAVN has now set our mid rate flying pay.

So from wings to AC Comd (15 months in this case), and then a further 4 years from there before middle rate:

Under the new system:

Total pay would be £23,629.

Made up of P2 pay of £4,205 and A/C Comd pay (aka flying pay anywhere other than the AAC) of £19,424.

Under the ‘old’ system (where middle rate is 4 years from wings):

Total pay would be £30,002

Made up of P2 pay of £4,205, A/C Comd pay of £10,270 and mid Rate flying pay of £15,527.

Even more morale giving:

Compare an AAC Officer pilot with any RN/RM or RAF pilot getting wings at the same time:

Total flying pay of £33,848

Made up of flying pay of (aka A/C Comd pay in the AAC) of £18,320 and Mid Rate flying pay of £15,527.

The figures get more ridiculous if you then look at how much you lose out on over the 8 years from wings and into top/enhanced rates.


What is so grating about this pathetic measure is that the decision has been made by those who are more than happy on their enhanced rates of flying pay and whose likelihood of getting in an operational helicopter, let alone flying one around Iraq or Afghanistan, is distinctly remote.

Of course these people count their jobs as ‘flying related’. If you can count watching aircraft fly past the window at DAVVN a flying related job.

Call me cynical but with these sort of incentives to work ever harder with less and less it’s increasingly hard not to be….!

This cannot go unchallenged.
 

The Directorate needs to be made quite clear that this is not simply about the money ... it is about a failure of leadership by the AAC's command.
.
Even if the Lt Col who signed his name to D/AAvn/31/003 dated 1 Mar 07 bothered to fight the cause on behalf those who will be worst affected (which I very much doubt), there has been a monumental corporate comms failure by HQ DAAvn through their complete lack of desire to have any dialogue with the Corps' aircrew over this issue. This simply exacerbates the perception that we are held in complete contempt by them.
.
Anyone who has earned their wings since Feb 1995 will be affected, and will receive less pay than they will have had a legitimate expectation of earning. The opening line of that letter claims that "the rules for transition to P1 rates of flying pay .... have been interpreted in an inconsistent manner across the Corps for some time".
.
I challenge you to name a single AAC officer, at any time during the last 16 years, who has not progressed up the rates of flying pay on the 4-yr anniversary of their wings parade.
.
There was nothing inconsistent about the interpretation of the rules at all. This is a blatant change in the accepted practice, which effectively reduces the value of the rewards package that an AAC pilot receives over his/her entire career.
.
In my case, the difference will amount £16,185.42. Or, to put it another way, I have received a pay CUT of 8.34% for each and every day between now and when I eventually catch up to the level I believed I would be at. This will happen again in 4 yrs time (although in my case, I can categorically state that I will not remain in the AAC long enough for that to matter - I wonder how many others are feeling the same way?)
.
Others, who will suffer disproportionately more, include all Cpl pilots who were prevented from occupying aircraft commander LSNs until they promoted to Sgt, and pretty much anyone who took longer than the minimum six month period because of the attrocious serviceability (particularly on Lynx) during the late 90's and early 00's.
.
The present Director is quite happy to bask in the reflected glory of the Corps and its aircrew ... and so he must also be prepared to bear the responsibility for the weaknesses of his staff, particularly the G1 branch at HQ DAAvn. All the officers involved must be made quite clear that their failure to fight this, their failure to communicate honestly and openly with those most seriously affected, and their treachery in trading off the Corps' best interests in return for being 'allowed' to remain on enhanced rates of flying pay themselves, is utterly disgusting and reprehensible to pretty much the entirety of those they are supposed to serve. I hope they choke on their 30 pieces of silver. This scandal will tarnish them for the remainder of their careers.
.
In the meantime, may I suggest that everyone registers their disapproval by cancelling their 'two day's pay' contribution to the AAC Association.

I'm sorry chaps - I left the Corps in 99 after some 20 odd years, I only left because the w**ker in Glasgow f***ed me about from ar***ole to breakfast and was unable to give me any of the information I needed about extending and all promises expired spectacularly. I was really p**sed off about having to leave. I thought someone might appreciate a 5000hr QHI who really did want to go AH. As it happens I was out on my ear before I knew it... and it has taken nearly eight years to realise what, as an NCO, my net worth to the Corps really was. Answer. F*ck all!!! Vote with your feet and leave if you feel hard done by, no other action is as remotely effective. There are plenty of opportunities out there, just bite the bullet and go.

Cracking statement, I havent laughed as much for ages.


Of course it's SIMPLY about the money, in fact, I would say, it is ONLY about the money. :rolleyes:

Greenie,

I was as surprised as you are about to be when I learned today that there are a lot of officers out there that did not progress to middle rate flying pay until after 4 years as an A/C Comd (5-6 years from flying trg), meaning they will not be affected by the "revised" rules. Basically I spoke to 3 different DE Officers in different departments that all said the same thing so I'm (probably wrongly) assuming this is the case for many others. I should add that these people don't work at DAAvn so there wasn't a party line to be seen.

Personally I haven't even seen the list, nobody in my CoC has mentioned it to me. Can anyone tell me if the list also has DE officers on it ? I'm only asking to see if this problem is confined to NCO/LE aircrew. If so then maybe the people making the decisions won't feel so guilty. If I am right then it would logically mean that ex-Cpl pilots and those taking a long time to achieve A/C Comd satus will be worst hit. I'm not suggesting for one second that it's fair but if this is the case then it will be harder to defend.

Can anyone correct me ?

Ron,
It affects everyone from direct entry AAC Officers to retreads. If you still havn't seen it pm me with a fax no and I will dispatch forthwith.

SL

Ron,

There are indeed many DE Officers on the list and, quite a few Majors at that, although the majority affected are the former Cpl pilots who could not progress until promoted to Sgt.

Greenie,

'In the meantime, may I suggest that everyone registers their disapproval by cancelling their 'two day's pay' contribution to the AAC Association.'

I think this action is divisive, although I agree something has to done to highlight the issue. I have a couple of mates who are now disabled and the AACA has paid handsomely for adequate facilities to assist their condition whilst at home. The AACA has also recently paid for a deceased pilots children, who was not a AACA member incidentally, to complete and indeed start private education. They also donate an awful lot of money to ex-AAC members who have fallen on hard times in one way or another so I cannot sign up to your option.

h

I dont believe for one minute that any officers waited 4 years after initial Ac comd to go to middle rate, ifs there is only 3 then they must have been a bit wet behind the ears and should have kicked the pay office into action to get onto middle rate 4 years after wings as everyone else did in the corps.
As for the AACA, I will remain as would like to think that if I ever fell on hard times someone would be there for me. However I agree that someone in the Directorate should be standing up with big shoulders and owning up to the fact that they were the one, or ones, who sold us down the river and then
f--king resign in disgrace before the corps falls from around its feet. You know who you are!!!

A suggestion would be to have a open discussion at the corps birthday when hopefully everyone will be present apart from those on op tours working their balls off for not as much pay as they originally thought they were going to get, a severe chest poking session in the AACA tent.
In fact can any one tell me - If you are a member of the the association does this guarantee you entry to the AACA tent as one year I was told to hoof it as I was a SNCO and only Officers were allowed in. Food for thought.

Sloppy,

Many thanks for the offer but I have just seen a copy.

Ouch!

I can imagine the discussions at MOD with this one.

AAC Rep : Er Sir Humphrey, we wish to change the interpretation on Army flying pay so our chaps are not penalised financially, it would be a positive retention measure but it is going to cost more money.

Sir Humphrey: Really, what do the other 2 services do?

AAC Rep: They do it the way we want to do it.

Sir Humphrey: Ahh I see. You just wish it to be the same across the service aircrew?

AAC Rep: Yes

Sir Humphrey: Perhaps they could do it the Army way, might that save more money?

AAC Rep: Well that might get my chaps orf my back .....

Total fiction right?

Any tuther news about the fiasco. Any one heard through the grapevine that all pilots are to receive back pay for P1 top rate from wings and a £50000 tax free bonus for messing us around - No i thought not - wishful thinking again. More people required to comment on this site, it it affects you then comment so at least the readers from DAAvn will know it is fully supported across the corps.

As an army pilot I would like someone to tell me why as an Army Pilot am I being paid much less than my fellow mates in the other 2 services!!! Im trying to get the reason behind this into my head, lets think, same pilots course, same standards, same job, same tours, but totally different pay? WHY??? JPA (joint)??? How on a joint pay scheme can I be paid less than an RAF and Navy pilot??

Well i think the powers that be are must be realising there are alot of unhappy chappies out there!

You can put up with the sh*t but as soon as the £ signs are mentioned and you effect what's put into people's wallets, they'll turn around and bite you in the ass!

So stand by the door is open and the feet are a walking and you can keep your carrots!:mad:

Hear, Hear!

I have been reading PPrune for a couple of years now and this has finally spurred me on to register.

It is, frankly, shocking that we are being treated in this way and I, for one, will not be renewing my subscription to the Journal...

AHV

Guys,
Come on, do you really think that HQ DAAvn give a flying **ck what you think. Your opinions count for squat on their horizon. Clearly there are a
lots of concerns and squabbles regarding pay, however in the current climate of jobtastic in civi street, why oh why,do you remain. I'm sure some of you are on time-bars but the majority are not, so just leave.

If your waiting for a reversal forget it, someone would have to say sorry or god forbid admit they **cked up large, and we all know that will never happen.

You are worth more than the treatment your getting, but you are still putting up with it!

I have raised several issues regarding the performance of various HQ eliments within the AAC and have taken flak for my comments, but sorry to say it again, told you so.

We have gone through similar events like this before and the majority held tight in the hope that things would improve for the better, they seldom did it has to be said. This time things are beyond recovery; No FRI, Delayed flying pay and you can look forward to increased operational tours, over commitment and no thanks.

So.............No Thanks....has to be the way ahead!


PP

PP,
Usually your caustic posts get my back up, but on this one I am with you. However, what has allowed the powers that be take 'ownership of this risk' (i.e. gamble) is that despite all of what has been said above and despite the significant differences in pay and conditions between Army and the RN/RAF is that there has not been a rush of people voting with their feet.

Of course there are those that are leaving at or around pension point - the 'cushion of a pension' making the decision easier. The Corps had factored those in and actually would like them to go. It always had invested a lot of responsibility in youth, where as the other 2 services have some well seasoned operators/high hour operators in command.

It is the 'bums on seats' and middle managers that would really hurt if they voted on mass. But despite the disparity and high op tempo forecast in the years ahead, the personnel figures look as though they are staying put.

Unless you know differently, I do not see or hear from the crew rooms of any stampede to civvie street (despite a very bouyant market, looking to explode in the airline market). This either signifies that either life is not as bad as portrayed, or the AAC retention measures do work (in comparison to the other 2 Services) or that it is infact true and the AAC pilot (given background, education, character etc) is a more stable Human Resource and not as mobile in the job market as his/her RN/RAF colleagues.

Whatever the reason, I do not think that people are voting with their feet, just whingeing and whining in crewrooms, with a real kick in the nuts for morale, just at the point when the Corps could proudly hold its head up high in the Joint Helicopter arena.

Front Seater, some very worthy points to ponder but I must point out that is isnt always as easy to vote with ones feet spontaneously. There are other considerations such as family, schooling, homes etc etc to consider and so to expect a stampede just isn't realistic.

What is realistic however is when considering the future and weighing up the reasons to stay or go, the arguments for are rapidly turning to against.
Furthermore, this whole vote with your feet argument just isn't condusive to human rights as I should have an option to very easily approach my employer regarding changes to my contract etc. What is needed is for a cessation of out of court settlements and a drive to push the MOD to pay for its errors to all whom have suffered as well as those that will follow.

I shouldnt have to give up my job just to show my discontent as all those that have done will agree it simply proves worthless.

There is also the small matter of having a licence either via bridging or the long route. I think what you will find now is a lot of people who were debating licencing are now actively seeking it. Lets face it, no-one is going to want to leave and be unemployed just to make a point. I think the effect of these changes will be felt in a couple of years time.

What might be more use at the moment is the prospect of a class action, I'd have no idea where to start with this but surely the disparity between services can't be right, especially since flying training became joint.

I agree you shouldn't have to give up a job that you enjoy just to show your discontent as unless there are big numbers involved no-one will bat an eye lid at 1 or 2 people leaving before their 22 year point. This won't bring the system down! Lets be realistice about leaving, its not to show or to prove to anyone what you think as this is not only worthless but also pointless.
You've got to be doing it for your own reasons forget the good of the service, whether you are leaving because of financial or family reasons get the most out of the services and bother yourself to get a licence at the earliest opportuniuty so you can leave if someone decides to change your terms and conditions without dicussing it :=

have licence. will leave at initial pension point (not long to go now). If I hadn't got a licence, same result.

If I'm going to get treated like sh eyte I'll go elsewhere and get paid more for the privilege thanks.

The thunder of hooves ...
 

There are a number of factors that the Army as a whole, and the AAC in particular, is not paying sufficient attention to on the issue of retention.

Firstly, for DE officers, the IRC was only invented in the late 90's. Before that, there were two types of officer - short service guys and lifers. However, the present generation of Capts/Majs have already twice been in a position where they have had to consider their prospects outside the military (once on conversion of SSC to IRC, and again on conversion of IRC to Reg C). The decision to stay has not always been easy, and many of my colleagues routinely express serious doubts about whether or not it was the right thing to do. These are the guys and girls who will shortly be approaching their IPPs, starting in 2008. They will have spent a great proportion of their commissioned service regarding their 16 yr points as the ultimate target, not the half-way point of a full career. The 'old guard' of SO1s and above have, largely, held Regular Commissions since they joined, or in some cases from even before that, so they cannot empathise or comprehend quite how many, or how serious we all are about our intentions to leave at the earliest opportunity. I think the Corps needs to radically re-assess just how many carrots it is going to need to keep anyone in beyond the 07, 08 and 09 Sqn Comd boards, and for each and every No 5 board thereafter. Standby for a lot of gapped SO2 and SO1 posts in the future ....

Secondly, for all ranks, the reality is that many people are marrying later, having children later, and many have partners who themselves have significant careers independent of the Army. The 'hooks' of boarding school allowance and subsidised quartering are simply not catching as many people as they did a decade ago, and many soldiers and officers will be reaching their pension points, before having become trapped by a reliance on these benefits. This trend is getting worse (from a retention perspective) and the only solution is to have a rewards package that gives cash, rather than allowances. (FRIs were an example of this trend). Again, the present generation of SO1s and above are already firmly trapped and once again, they just don't have the capacity to fully appreciate that for many of us, continued service is really only marginally more attractive than other options. The change in policy for flying pay progression (and it was a change for the worse, not just a clarification) is just another straw, but one that will break many camels' backs.

Finally, I sometimes think that the old guard (and maybe even some posters on this forum) underestimate our IQs. We all know that under the new JSP 754 regs, flying pay is immediately cut once we PVR, and so to have expected a knee-jerk response of a swathe of resignations is naive. We will go, eventually - make no mistake - but it will be on our terms, when it suits us. The real measure is not whether 2 or 3 people go this year, but whether 20 or 30 will have gone by 2008 and 2009. And the real tragedy is that these 20 or 30 won't be the natural wastage, whose loss the system is designed to cope with, or the garbage that we are glad to see the back of - it will be the best and the brightest ... the ones the Corps really needs to retain if it wants to make progress and develop.

For any CO, their influence is only temporal, but their reputation is eternal. Whether they are derided or celebrated is in our hands, and we must all make them realise that this is the issue on which they will be judged.

In the meantime - play the long game:

Write to HQ DAAvn to express your discontent.
Write to your MP.
Write to Professor David Greenaway (Chairman of the AFPRB), and every other member of the team: Robert Burgin, Alison Gallico, Dr Peter Knight CBE, Professor Derek Leslie, Neil Sherlock, Air Vice Marshal (Retired) Ian Stewart CB, Dr Anne Wright CBE and Lord Young of Norwood Green (and while you are at it, ask them to include an AAC unit on their visits for 2008).
Apply for a transfer to the RAF or the RN.

And above all, make your chain of command aware that failing to resolve this issue will cost the Corps dearly down the line. The four horsemen may not be riding across the lawn at Middle Wallop just yet, but I can hear the thunder of hooves not far off ...

I doubt the chain of command will care if they get 1 or 2 letters from a few DE officers as I suppose they will write this off as some misled officers being idealists or that they were misguided by their SNCOs, equally 1 or 2 gapped SO1 or SO2 posts won't effect the manning of a front line squadron.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of this rallying cry, 20 or 30 extra aircrew leaving a year can be easily absorbed by the Middle Wallop production line, long term your naive if you think anything will change because of a few disgruntled voices!
Do you think the chain of command cares about the noise of hooves?

You are of course right that a few disgruntled voices will not make any difference. That is why we must act collectively to force this to the top of HQ DAAvn's agenda. Have you seen the list? There are nearly 300 names on it. The greatest hypothetical financial loss is over £44k.

And whilst the sausage factory can, quite possibly, churn out an extra 20-30 people over the next few years, these would be 2nd Lts, with 250hrs. With the LOS-based terms of service for officer careers, it will take another 12 years to replace the Majs and senior Capts that will be voting with their feet over the next 36months. This will have second-order consequences and compound effects as those who remain will have fewer and fewer opportunities for service at E2, increased tour lenths and reduced tour intervals, and of course less money than they had been expected for doing it.

What really makes me laugh is that the Corps fall-back option for the last decade has been to commission every Tom, Dick and Harry (these days they prefer to be known as Thomas, Richard and Henry, obviously) to fill the shortfall created by the Corps' patent inability to retain those people it had originally selected and trained for the job. However, the effect of D/AAvn/31/003 is to disproportionately disadvantage precisely those NCO aircrew who we have historically relied on to take up these LE commissions - and whilst I don't claim any expertise in understanding the British NCO psyche, I'm pretty sure that the bunch I've met who serve in AAC Regts are not tolerant of idiots, do not take kindly to being shafted, have very long memories, and will not easily forgive this act of snake-bellied treachery by the Directorate.

Like I said, it will be more than just a few gapped posts at SO2 and SO1 level over the next few years ...

Chaps,
I would have thought that it was obvious by now; it is the first stage of absorbing the AAC into the RAF, and the disbandment of a discredited HQ DAAvn and introducing JHC as the Corps focus. We all know that NCO aircrew are an anathema to the RAF, so first, lets get rid of them by having them leave of their own accord under the guise of a flying pay anomaly. And, of course, once the AAC goes, then the next target will be the Fleet Air Arm.Simple really. :hmm:

Thing is that with the arrival of JHC what exactly does the Directorate do, what do they direct?

Something in the title may explain; the Joint Helicopter Command commands operational activity and the Directorate directs (as in deals with personnel, airworthiness, flight safety structures and organisational matters, training policy and a whole host of other things that the JHC would not even wish to go near). Apart from fighting PS10 about flying pay, it does a remarkably good job given the circumstances. (Oh and I wasn't paid to say that; I know how hard some of those people work for the Corps).

Im sure they do perform a very good and wholesome job Breakscrew, it just doesn't always seem so out here in the sticks.

What circumstances are these :rolleyes: would that be the great and the good SO1/2s manning their desks and too preoccupied with their pet projects. At the same time keeping favour with DAAvn and hoping that the end of their own short postings hasten along before anything rocks their own career apple cart, but not so willing to put their heads above the parapet when it comes to standing up for the very people that HQ DAAvn should be trying to retain in the AAC and not alienate because of some short sighted penny pinching.

More worrying still is that their probably right and that DAAvn won't see a mass exodus of their experienced aircrew as these officers and soldiers all have their own careers with families to support to consider. In time this detrayal will be forgotten about and the new pay scheme will be all thats known, unless your one of those fortunate enough to be in a position to be able to leave now because of this last straw.

Unless you hope for this ;)

I'll be off then....
 

GreenieLynxPilot has hit the nail quite squarely on the head. This issue will bite the Corps squarely on the ass in a few years time. The tractor bean pull of the 16 year pension has got me firmly within its grasp and I would be foolish to sacrifice the pension for the sake of demonstrating my anger. However as a hitherto loyal member of the AAC I am disgusted at the way in which this change has been brought in. This is a disgraceful way to treat the hard working, loyal pilots of the AAC.
And so whilst I will not be leaving in the immediate future, D/AAvn/31/003 has killed off any lingering chance that I might transfer from an IRC to a RegC. I am quite sure that I will not be the only one.

Indeed you won't be. Next summer for me. :ok:

me too chicken leg. But to add to what greenielynxpilot said - he makes a very good point about such things as attitude changes and boarding school allowance - I wouldn't dream of sending my children to boarding school no matter how much money they gave me - so that is completely not a draw for me.

I have got a regular commission - but the writing's on the wall for the corps. I have to say that this pay change is a wonderful 50th anniversary present for lions led by a bunch of chiselers.

C Robin,

I see you got hit quite hard on the flying pay thingy. Nay luck matey.

Mutley,

Give me a ring or come and see for yourself. I will explain :)

Jeep

Thanks for the kind offer Jeep but my comment about direction was a bit tongue in cheek. :}

Greenie Lynx Bloke,
What a good post - genuine and well measured post.