WINGS AND CS95 - Please help!
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/159500..._troops150.jpg
OK, so CAS can wear wings on his CS95(desert DPMs) and he is on the Air Force Board Standing Committee - who authorises what we can wear on our uniforms. Also the PM is fine with it as well.

Does that mean we can put our wings on CS95 now??:E

Seriously, anyone know how we get things changed in AP1398 on RAF Uniform. I'd like to get a few things off of my chest about aviator's insignia and attire to someone in charge.

PM me if you don't want to post.

Personally, I'm not too sure why somebody would want to wear their wangs on their cabbage kit but I guess if CAS is doing it, that's all the top cover you need. There are times and places where you don't want to be drawing attention to the fact that you are driver, airframe. Need I say more?

The PM doesn't know the first thing about military dress regs and probably couldn't care less if CAS had appeared in a pink feather boa. Remember that on a recent occassion when the PM addressed the troops in the sandpit, his turnout was a bag of sh1te, looking like a double glazing rep having a lunchtime sharpener in the slug and lettuce. Great guy.

Point of DPM = to not be seen easily by the enemy.
Add big white set of wings at the top of the left lung.
Possible consequences:
1. Get mistaken for an albatros a long way away.
2. Require a rubber vest to breathe properly.

WTF do you think cabbage kit is for? It's not a fashion statement designed to make you look attractive to the opposite/same sex (delete if/as/when appropriate).

It's designed to allow you to hide behind trees and rocks and become invisible to the enemy, so why the f:mad: :mad: ck do you want to draw attention to yourself?

Do you fancy having your toenails pulled off with pliers while your bolleaux are toasted over an open fire, so they can get videos of the brave driver, airframe, bubbling all up on Al Jazeera?

Frankly I'd suggest no badges of rank either, as that will be easily picked on too, but that would be going to far for the anally-retentive that make up the middle-management.

Suffice to say that in the hooligans we managed without rank badges (even the Ruperts) in the field, and no-one died :E

Errrrr, if they were caught, wouldn't the fact that the individual was fat, wheezy and talking incessantly about themselves give away the fact that they were RAF aircrew?!!! It may well be beneficial to wear wings and claim to be an AT driver, in which case you would likely be handed back to friendly forces in order to further disrupt the allies war effort.

And in case you think the banter from fellow/former mil mates is too cruel, read what the farmstrip flyers dished out to one of their own when as a newly-minted PPL he asked about wearing epaulettes.

...also, what rank do you have to be before it's okay to wear an SD cap with CS95? With all due respect Sir you look daft.

What's the matter, afraid you might have to rely on your personality to get you noticed/through a conversation?:{
Maybe the law should be changed to allow the wearing of flying suits and associated coloured badges even when you leave the RAF.:}



Chump

Seconded. In reverse, this is equivalent to wearing a "deputy dawg" ECW hat with No1s. Equally hilarious, though unlikely I fear.

Oh well go on then, in the most tenuous way I can think of linking it.

Seeing as we are all talking about dress regs whilst on det, can I ask why it is that we can't get desert flying suits here in JHC but there appear to be lots of them going begging for Air Stewards, movers etc on the AT fleet.

Oh and Sir, you do look a bit daft with that hat on in deserts. A mite Soviet I think is what first sprang to mind when I saw it.

There you go Ratty - happy now :E ?

He also appears to be wearing a joint/combined service stable belt rather than an RAF one.

Joint appropriate for CDS, but surely not for CAS ...:confused:

...and of course I agree with Melch about desert grobags ;)

Do pilots, on combat missions, therefore remove their name badges and Squadron Crests? Cos surely if they had to bail out and go covert over a war zone - a big flashy badge and yellow Squadron Crest would stick out like sore thumb.

Melchett01

money all spent on green grow bags by mistake and the fire proof DCC is on the streets so why need dessie flying suits ?

PoR!
The higher up you go the more you can get away with.

It first happened in 96-ish when a det co asked BZZ to send out a couple of sets of brevets to put on his DPM. Totally against regs (then) but who were we to argue? We packed them up, sent them and chuckled.

Since then, it seems to be the men on the ground who wear them. The boys (and girls) who do the work in the air don't seem to need them.

Still - only on a par with overweight sky-queens at BZZ wearing jumpers all summer so we knew they flew. :ok:

Not sure when the photo was taken and I can't count how many stripes there are on his shoulders. It does look as if he is wearing Air Mshl rank which would mean that he was CJO at the time.

Strange though, AAC can wear pilots' wings on CS95 etc and the great airborne warrior race (of all 3 services) can wear there wings but the RA(run by pilots)F have written a rule to say that they can't (and then they (the people responsible for the aformention rule) just ignore it anyway).:ugh:

The "Jointery" belt will be from his time as CJO. :ok:

I actually think we should advertise who we are at work - it makes it easier to find a subject matter expert (those bloody WSO/WSOp wings are a nightmare; you don't whether your speaking to a Nav/Eng/AEO or ALM - quite a spectrum of different abilities, don't you think?).:ugh: If I had my way there would be a badge or emblem to distinguish all personnel's profession - don't you think it would be useful?

On the subject of sanitising before missions, I've always thought it a little excessive. There you are, standing with your hands up because your Walther has jammed, next a smoking wreck with the biggest fin in NATO, trying to say in Farsi that you're "not aircrew honest Abdullah!". Having looked into the Somali Blackhawk shootdown, I wouldn't be surprised if the fact that the captured US mate was a pilot may well have saved his bacon. If he was a grunt he would not be worth looking after after and would probably be handed to the angry mob with Mr Machete.:eek:

Ratty, what a great idea about Trinny and Susannah. "What Not to Wear, Sir!". Having seen some of my Boss's detachment "Going out kit" they are ripe for the treatment.:8

I guess no-one has any helpful tips on how to get in touch with the "Uniform Police" then??:confused:

No. Sorry! When I went through IOT the briefing was "berets are for Regiment officers and airmen, no self respecting officer would wear one". ;) Ergo SD hat and combats!!:ok:

"Berets are only for rockapes, enlisted filth and French onion-sellers", I was told.

Seems about right. Same goes for cabbage kit.

And ALJs should be mandatory with blues - to make the point that one is not some ground-pounding penguin Untermensch, but a noble Brother Flyer!

Leon, you are a prat.

So, grunts are not worth looking after? These are the same grunts who are fighting for their lives every day while HM RAF's 'finest' impress small children at Air Shows, say Happy Birthday to the Queen and play cops and robbers in OTA E.

I am just back from my 3rd stint and my respect to the SH and AAC guys. As for the 'Few', that is certainly true, did not see one in 3 months.

At least we all know Beagle is stuck firmly in the 70's, what is your excuse?

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Alternatively, if you are that desperate to look daft, just call it "Thursday Morning dress (ops)".

I'm sure you will get away with it as surely nobody in their right minds would bother or have the time to look up dress regs would they........LJ?????

You Sir, are a d:mad: ck:mad: ead of the first, second and third order - your concern about uniform regs is unhealthy to a degree :E

I say chaps, steady on!



If in doubt BANG OUT!

I used to sit up at the pointy end but was always of the opinion that anybody could do that, and that the real brains and courage sat in the back.



If in doubt BANG OUT!

Having 'been there' on a certain black & silver squadron when we started the wearing of aircrew leather jackets, flouting the dress regs and being banned by the Stn Cdr at Valley while on MPC, I feel I must stand up for the rather rotund Leon Jabberwocky.


Surely the air officer's dress should be impeccable if they insist we all adhere to a core standard? God knows he has about 4 minions to sort this stuff out for him? I know nothing about 'jointery' (other than it is a made up word) and the dress regs therein, nor do I care.


Some years ago I was at a senior officers briefing on the introduction of the new WSO branch and brevet. He declared that the RAF would fall in line with the americans in re-naming our navigators as WSOs ... this was much more descriptive of the role and emminently sensible in his opinion. When a wag (pilot) at the back suggested that we should go the whole hog and give all aircrew 2 wings, with a differentiator in the middle, said senior officer (& Harrier pilot) just about imploded. So forgive my cynicism, but I think the only people who really give a toss are those in the middle, who can make a name for themselves one way or another.

As an aside, SD hats and CS95 DO NOT GO TOGETHER, whatever twisted officer viewpoint you may have - a chip bag is a much more discerning alternative, one where you neither look like a prat nor a grunt.


And as you know Leon, I could never begin to answer your question as I've never had any idea about things like that.



Interesting side debate ...

Does it matter what you're wearing after being shot down? Your aircraft lies smouldering some 1 nm away, you're in a flight suit and the helmet nearby is a suspiciously reasonable fit (squipper dependent!). I'm with Leon here - most grunts capturing you may do little more than rough you up for fear of damaging 'the goods' if they know you're aircrew, as they may get into trouble for lessening the ransom demand.

There is no answer to this - only that I really think it makes no difference whatsoever whether you wear wings on your CS95 or flight suit in an operational zone. The only comment could be that the white could stand out too much - in which case a return to the black on green would be fine.

Yes.

All badges are fastened with velcro. Still gives the game away. One ex-Int O (Green Slime) was in Belize in Apr 1982, when some RAF types in growbags came in. They had no badges but patches.

As an expert Int O with a hobby of observing badges he knew they were 39 Sqn.

As they were 39 Sqn aircrew maybe the colostomy bags gave it away.;)

It does matter in a helicopter. Who are the pax and who are the crew (apart from the obvious of the crew being the ones looking down the wrong end of the gun)?
It also matters in FOBs, where snipers able to pick out such details as badges can take one look and say to themselves "ooh - I can down an aircraft here without it even getting airborne, and save HMG a shed-load of flying pay in one go..." Which is in itself an argument for wearing berets in such areas.

Nah, they were 24 years younger then.

Shows what little you know then doesn't it :rolleyes:

If you want to take the risk, if ever in the situation where you are captured, of giving your interrogators lots of things to 'talk' to you about - your job (brevet), squadron (badge), wife (photo), address (driving licence), etc - then that is up to you.

MadMark!!! :mad:

We used to p*ss the stn cdr off big time. The old Mk 4 flying suit (temperate climate) was a shiny slate grey/dark blue rather than the (tropical) lighter blue one which soon became grubby.

Mr Staish decreed that all flying suits were to be badged, one light blue was for airshows etc and the dark slate grey one was for VIP visits. To a man we all refused and reserved the grey/blue - no badges - for QRA.

Flying Clothing used to write big identifying marks on the label - which we then cut out :) . When they painted the outside of our bone domes with COTnn we went ballistic and made them remove all the markings.

OK, a big smoking hole in a Russian city and a bedraggled airman in a blue romper suit might have been a bit of a give away.

The white wings you crabs wear look daft anyway! If you were any good you'd have a gold set! And we ony wear ours on our flying overalls and coffee mugs! We rely on professionalism to stand out while driving a desk and wearing a shirt and tie, rather than accessorising every bloody shirt and jumper!

The team works and all that! It's hard enough to combat the "all wafus are wankers mentality" in a fishheads' mob without rubbing their faces in it all the time!

You've changed Ratty, you've changed!:E

Who really cares what CAS wears! and as for people who wear chip hats and black leather flying jackets! don't get me started.
Why would anyone want to purchase a chip hat to wear when the RAF provides you with a perfectly good free beret.
Also I believe that the current rules for theatre mean that you don't have to completely sanitise before you go flying, name badges , sqn crests, brevets etc are all considered fine, the thinking behind this is that the type of people on the ground who may capture you post crash aren't interested in what your job is or what you might know about the aircraft or it's systems, they will just be extactic to have captured any coalition member to parade and use in the propaganda war.

I agree with everything.

Except this;

Surely you're not suggesting wearing a beret with a leather jacket, a la one of our cheese-eating surrendering allies? Good god man/woman, have you no dress sense?

ps. There's something to be said for paying £25 and looking ok than paying nowt and looking stupid.

If only you could get a guarantee that you would look ok in your £25 chip hat. Especially the ones who think they are making some kind of statement by having it tilted towards the left (i.e. wrong) ear. :ugh: Almost always Navs I’ve found. Says it all.

May I refer the honourable gentleman to his previous question ...



Methinks you'll be shunned by McDs and end up at Wimpy. :p

You appear to be in a glass house ...

Not I, I will survive.

A very popular song in a certain type of Disco apparently.:)

If you want to look like a dogs dinner, then wear CS 95 (covered in various badges indicating your service, trade, command etc) finished off with an SD hat and flying boots. I can remember what my service and trade is, and would expect anyone else to work it out by the rank I wear and where I sit in my aircraft. As for berets - please don't start Beags off again - I seem to recall the forage cap had a nickname that was the vernacular for part of the female form, and suggested what one looked like when wearing it - I rest my case.