Coff - whatever next - naughty step for you!

MPN11 - But we know what he did near Strubby !!!!!!

Sorry Chaps ... I must try harder ;)

Flew at Cranwell in in 1964 with F Sgt Lawton, and in 65 with a F Sgt Elliott and also a M Plt Jackson. The latter ISTR had only one ear lobe following an accident.


Jacko did the final Nav Test for a good friend, I A-R, sadly no longer with us. As they walked out Jacko insisted that A-R swapped his immaculately prepared map for the dog eared version in Jacko's flying suit. A-R flew an immaculate test and on landing was asked if he had "Any questions".


"Yes, sir", says A-R, "why did you swap maps?"


"Because your Father bollocked me for being late for Pay Parade in 1948. Anyway, you passed. 98%".

ISTR the lady in question lived in Skegness. You can't win them all ;)

During nav training 1964-1965
 

At Hullavington flew with Master pilots Trezise, Ward, Bryce, Moss, Reddell, Hunter, Waterman, Topp, and Culpin, all on Varsity and Valletta.
On Meteor NF 14 flew with Master pilot Chapell and Sgt Boulter.
What a wealth of experience, didn't really appreciate it as a sprog, 18 year old, Pilot Officer trainee navigator.

There was a Sgt P A Boulter at Chivenor in 1967

23 June 1967: Meteor T.7 WH208 overshot runway at Bovingdon. Sgt PA Boulter, Gp Capt HL Calder-Jones.

He was still at Chivenor the following year when he flew a Meteor 8 at the Air Day.

Sounds like the same man.

Just picked up on this thread, and must say that as an Aircraft Ground Engineer late 80s early 90s I was lucky enough to fly on several routes with Brian Skillicorn. An absolute gentleman, and always a pleasure to work with.

Smudge:ok:

An old and respected colleague at CFS, told me of his time at Feltwell, when all the students assembled in the Ante Room. The CI then announced that those standing at one end of the room were to become Officer Cadets - the others would be Sergeants!

Top West 50,


Do you really mean Feltwell?


Postwar, Feltwell was 3 FTS, then a Thor Missile base and afterwards the OCTU, at which ground branch candidates did their officer training, together with former serving non-commissioned personnel. It follows that in that last guise everybody was going for officer but as an FTS, arbitrary commissioning seems unlikely.


O-D

Ahhh, JENKINS, why indeed commission pilots? :cool:

At the risk of diverting this thread from its intended course, I once had the task of justifying the number of officer ATCOs vs SNCOs who did, fundamentally, the same tasks on console. The answer lay, of course, in the "supervisory and executive" roles that needed to be filled by officers, in addition to those in senior Staff appointments. That led to a requirement for a certain proportion of JOs working their way through the system, whilst SNCOs/WOs just did the basic tasks. Thus it was that 60% officers and 40% SNCO/WO was validated.
Could not the same philosophy also be applied to aircrew? ;)

Cranwell in mid 60s, FS Lawton and MPlt Jackson; as previously mentioned; plus Mplts Saxby and Gunnell, all JP QFIs. There were a couple more MPlts on the Varsity, but I cannot recall their names. However all were gone by 1970. In the same period, MPlt Shepherd was a QFI at Oakington who was later to become a wizened but equally competent Fg Off. Shep was the last and oldest crossover that I can recall.

YS

YS

Was this the same M Plt Shepherd who had been a Vampire QFI at Swinderby and then a JP3/4 QFI at Syerston. If so he was my instructor for a year at SJ and I could tell some interesting tales about him.

He had been thrown off three commissioning courses at Jurby for drinking too much but I am glad he finally got commissioned.

ACW

ACW418
That's the man, definitely one of the air force's characters.

YS

Smujsmith - Brian Skillicorn pretty much taught me to fly. He was by a mile the best QFI I experienced ;)

Uffington sb,

I knew Master Pilot Blackwell, he was an Air Traffic Controller at RAF Manston in 1979, I believe he had flown Spitfires, Hunters and I think the Lightning before he changed Branch. Still collected his flying pay!

He made quite an impression on me as a young LAC AATC, he was most respected by all at Manston.

I remember he was an avid Arsenal Fan!

Anyone know if he is still around?

When ?
 

As a former Sgt/Pilot myself (don't get me started on when I was a fortnight overdue for my "crown" - and never did get the money), I did, on my return as a Fg.Off. in '49, receive uniformly excellent instruction from P2 Lamont (Harvard), P2 Willis (Meteor), and as a Flt.Lt. from M/P Wiseman (Balliol), and Sgts McCockle and Quinney (Harvard).

(Ring any Bells ?)

Of course, up to retirement in '72, there were still old M/Ps and some old F/Sgts in ATC, and all over, and some still flying, and may be yet for aught I know. So, among the flood of reminiscences, may I draw attention to the #1 Post (eight years ago) from FirstFiveEighth:

"G'day,
Following a question from my uncle, an ex-RAF Flt.Sgt. Pilot (Mosquitos), I'm trying to ascertain when the RAF stopped recruiting and training NCO Pilots. I have the feeling it was pre-Korean War, possibly 1949".

So when did they ? Someone must know. Danny.

NCO Pilot recruitment.
 

Danny,

The final batch of NCO pilots were recruited in 1961. All recruitment was limited to serving personnel and I believe not more than 100 were taken. Training was conducted from 61 to 64.

The success/failure rate was similar to commissioned students with the exception that a significant proportion were ex-NCO aircrew who, with the advantage of experience, mostly succeeded.

Again, most of the successful graduates from pilot training were either commissioned immediately or within a few years.

I recall that all NCO pilots were destined for multi-crew aircraft and underwent AFTS on the Varsity at Oakington. Many found their way into the rotary force. A few became first tour QFIs after which they entered the fast jet world.

Hopefully, my memory of those days has not failed too badly. I was one of them.

Fixed Cross, that ties up nicely with T.S leaving 152 Sqn in Bahrain and starting Pilot flying training in 1961, then ending up on choppers.

Pete Boulter
 

Pete Boulter was flying as recce pilot on II(AC) Sqn Phantoms at Laarbruch in the early/mid 70s as a flt lt. ISTR that when he left the RAF he became a wheel in RAFA. At the same time, we had Jace Hill, also flt lt pilot on II(AC), who had also come from Chivenor, I think from being a FS not that long before.

A lot of our navigators on the V force were ex NCOs who were commissioned into the Branch List. They had their own tie; a ladder with just two rungs at the bottom.

Fixed Cross,

Thanks ! (As late as that ? - YLSNED).

Danny.

Coff
[I]A bit of a long shot really ... But does anyone remember a Master Pilot by the name of Alec Hammond ? Sadly he is no longer with us, he passed away in 1999 aged 76.[/I]

I knew Alec Hammond, he was a F/Sgt flying the Varsity at Watton, becoming a M/Plt in 1962, before going to Germany. After that he was back in Lincolnshire but I don't think he was on Hunters.
Perhaps that picture might be from the Varsity Conversion Unit at Manby? Fg.Off Williams has too many medals for a new Fg.Off perhaps he was recently commissioned?
I also knew Flt.Lt Brian Clark in the picture and am pretty sure he was not on Hunters

Many thanks Donthaveone ...

Interestingly I've also had a PM from another source which makes the Varsity link with Alec ... 1 Varisty Refresher Flying Squadron at Manby :ok:

I've got to pop out this morning ... I'll drop you a PM later today ;)

Kind regards ...

Coff.

NCO Pilots
 

Our sweatbox (SIM) instructor on 232 at Marham in '73-'74 was a master pilot. I can't remember his name but shall never forget his sense of humour.

I seem to recall there was a good deal of ill feeling when some of the remaining 'Masters' (pilots & navigators, that is) were moved into ground tours from which there was little likelihood they would ever return to flying.


The story goes along the lines of: (a) no more flying pay and (b) you're now a warrant officer in a ground trade so get your badges changed.


Drifting away, the 1951 trade structure introduced the rank of Master Technician for those in the (mainly) engineering trades. However, other particularly skilled airmen in trades such as Equipment (Trade Group 18) and admin, could also hold the rank of Master Tech (and the lower ranks of chief, senior, Cpl and junior). In the 1964 trade structure this situation was abandoned but personnel 'wasted out' in the old ranks or until they were promoted. Hence at Brampton in the early 1980s, there was still a chief technician personnel admin clerk in the HQ.


O-D

Some threads here are as good as any historical document gathering dust in a forgotten archive. The two runged ladder on the tie, that CT scribbly. Brilliant.

Well Al R, then you'll like the: 'Twelve Month Unaccompanied Tour Tie'.


The motif of the tie comprised the roman numerals XII, beneath which was the female sex symbol of a circle with cross beneath. In the circle was the symbol for a 'No Entry' road sign.


The tie was generally not available until one was almost tour-ex.


One chap had the tie but it had a cigarette burn strategically in the 'No Entry' bit.


I suppose in these enlightened times, we would need to have two ties available to cover - how can I put this delicately - the more liberal interpretation of what constitutes sexual abstinence!


Old Duffer

How many thousands of items of military ephemera must there be out there? Enough of that from me, back to the thread!

"a ladder with just two rungs at the bottom.

The version of the tie I recall had lots of rungs, but the third one up from the bottom was broken.

My apologies for late response to earlier posts, but delighted to hear that my old "r/t acquaintance" Sgt Boulter did well :ok:

I recall that one as a Supplementary List tie ...

In the days when you took a promotion exam (B Exam) for "promotion" to Flt Lt. And if you didn't take it, you ended up as a 38 yo Fg Off - but having flown all the time.

"In the days when you took a promotion exam (B Exam) for "promotion" to Flt Lt. And if you didn't take it, you ended up as a 38 yo Fg Off - but having flown all the time."
I did not take the "C", stayed a Flt. Lt. to 38, and was always current, even through a "Ground" tour.
Now whether they would have promoted me is another question. I was once told by a senior oficer that I had a reputation for arguing with senior officers. "Not at all" says I. "I see what they mean" says he.

Sycamore, I think the "George" you refer to is George Lee, who ended up a Wng/Cmdr on Jaguars. I was a u/t Sgt pilot on the same Cerney course as fellow ex-app Dick Wharmby but was chopped in the last week due to a daft "Bends" run, and confined to the back end of the Shack. Ironically many years later as a 146 skipper, I had George Lee as my F/O, and an excellent F/O he was! We had a lot of good times. He also appeared on telly landing the 146 at London City. He is now i/c the flying club at Wyton, still flying every day.

Croq, yes ,upon reflection it was George Lee; never met him as he was a course or two ahead....PM later..Syc

My father - David 'Pop' Morton was a M.Plt and he retired in 1970 from Varsities at the NBS at R.A.F. Lyndholme. Prior to that all manner of aeroplanes including Hunters in Gutersloh and one tour on the Thor at Helmswell/Bardney.
After the RAF he joined SOAF based in Bait and I used to see him in Masirah when we went through on 203 Nimrods.

When I held at Binbrook in 1987 there was a Master Pilot working in the Lightning Sim. I recall him saying that he'd last flown Javelins and that he was one of 3 Master Pilots still serving, the other 2 were in ATC.

Regards,
MM

The name Saxby cropped up earlier on. Might it be the same Dad Saxby who was instructing at OATS Oxford for commercial ab initios?

MM,

I think you are refering to the late Master Pilot Tam Kirk. Tam flew Javelins with 85 Sqn at West Malling in 1960. I was his Nav Rad as an NCO Radio Observer and for a time we were the only NCO aircrew on the squadron.

A year later Tam recrewed with Master Navigater Phil Tyler (and I happily departed to Pilot Training). By then (61) 85 was at West Raynham and several more NCO back seaters had arrived.