Thats the one. :) was a nice man, the replacement was something I wouldnt step in................. Pulled me up one day for long sideboards, well it was the 70's.... asked who I reported to in the mornings, so thinking damage control gave him the name of a fair sergeant.... he called him on the phone and asked have you seen the state of this Airman? answered well he normally has is overalls on so cannot comment on his dress lol. had him over the guardroom, bollocked him and had him have a haircut too........ was not amused..

There was also a slightly slow SAC? Brooks with a broad accent in the Guardroom whom everytime he made a tannoy message, we used to call the guardroom so the phone was ringing in the background, u would have thought he would have cottoned on............:ugh:

Last NCO Pilot in RAF.
 

I distinctly remember a Cpl ATC Asst (probably a Runway Controller) late '50s, with Pilot's brevet and war ribbons.

In the guardroom at Manby in 65/66 was an SAC "Trade Assistant General" similarly attired with pilots wings and war medals. I was told he never adapted to life outside the RAF, and rejoined to stay 'within the family'.

airborne artist,
I met Brian when he was a Hercules Co on 30 Sqn in the 90's. A class act.

I seem to recall an Air Traffic Cpl at Valley who wore pilots wings....this would be in the 70's.

There were still plenty of "AG" and "B" brevet wearers around at that time and my first flight commander at Halton actually wore an "O" brevet. Which possibly made him unique at the time....68-70.

I was very nearly a Sergeant Pilot. On one of my interviews with the CGI at Oakington in 1961 I was asked whether I would like to be one; it must have been something to do with my Ps & Qs. I declined the offer inferring that I would rather leave the service. They must have been short of recruits because it was never mentioned again.

IIRC when the Varsities arrived from Valley I am sure that there were two sergeant students among them. When I arrived in Borneo in January 1966 there were two sergeant pilots on the squadron; Jim Lawn and Dave Cramp; possibly the same two.

Eventually Dave Cramp did my captains qualification and line check at Sumburgh in November 1978.

There was a Master Pilot instructor on the Hunter Sim at Chivenor in early 70's. Can't emember if he moved to Brawdy when Chivenor closed and the OCU (TWU) went there.

At end of WW2 weren't there a lot of acting NCO aircrew who reverted to their substansive ranks at war end? Former F.SGt pilots with wings and medals dressed as SAC. Apparently a lot of people thought they had been demoted due to LMF or some similar 'crime'. :confused:

Not quite unique, a certain senior officer at nav school 1969-70 still wore this brevet. There were some mutterings that the old description of the 'O' brevet as "the flying a****ole" was particularly appropriate in his case.

I thought that he was gentleman, albeit a slightly eccentric one. His successor on the other hand was a very strange individual and he could have been described and you put it!

YS

On my Varsity course at Oakington (30/84 course) in early 1964 there were certainly 3, perhaps 4 Sgt. Pilots. One was subsequently on the same MOTU course as me in the September, another must have been on a later course, as both were on Shacks on 205 Sqn in Singapore in the late 60's. Another, I think went onto helicopters.

Had an OC Admin at Watton in the mid 60s who wore the "O" brevet - pretty appropriate too, given its nickname.

Last Sgt Pilot
 

I believe it was me. Wings awarded 3 Apr 64 at Leeming. Retired as Commandant (Lt Col) SAAF. Civvie Hercs thereafter - all good times.

Why does the RAF only recruit pilots who are commissioned these days?

Is it down to politics or is there a valid reason behind it, i.e. fast jet pilots usually only have a limited half life so would require a decent pension to retire earlier than 22 years?

Or is it down to the fact that the RAF insists that its senior Commanders are aviators so they have an understanding of air power?

Why do you say RAF as I am struggling to think of any comparable air force anywhere in the world that has NCO pilots?

Wow. An 8 year resurrection. Is that a record? :}

Following on from Post 46, in addition to Jim Lawn and Dave Cramp there was also Cherry Springate and Mel Buckley. These guys all went through Ternhill or Tern Hill (depending on what the service decreed) at the end of 1964.


There were several non commissioned instructors of whom Master Pilot Don Sissons springs to memory and Master Navigator Les Fuggle who IIRC ran the crewman training.


Several experienced Masters came through from fixed wing but at least one didn't like the idea of sitting beneath a demonic telegraph pole and so returned from whence he came.


My last go in a Sycamore was with Master Pilot Ray Rowe in Singapore in late 1966 but several others, such as Taff Walker have already been mentioned.


Old Duffer

Is that a record?

Perhaps someone will be clever enough to find out, but I am just grateful as ever to Danny for resuscitating the thread.

Thread drift I know, but quite interesting to note from the thought-provoking link http://www.fleetairarmoa.org/Content...AA_amp_BoB.PDF that five of the fifty-six FAA pilots who fought in the Battle of Britain were Petty Officers, the equivalent rank/rating to Sergeant. I regret that I do not know when Chief or Petty Officer pilots were phased out of the FAA, although I would hazard a guess that it was probably in the mid 1950s.

Jack

I'm sure I had a QFI in the 70s, Gerry York, who had been a Sgt Pilot on Shacks... Must have been one of the latter examples of the species.

Ditto.

He's flying JPs out of North Weald these days I believe.

I seem to recall that on our IOT training course at South Cerney in 1962 we had some guys who were going through with us but were remaining as NCO aircrew. I believe a couple ended up as NCO Beverley navigators.

On my Bev OCU in 64 we had relatively young, ie not WW2, Fg Off Biff H.....d who wore the AFM or DFM (cant remember which) gained as a Sgt pilot on Meteors I believe. Ace bloke.

There were 2 NCO QFIs on 1 Sqn at Cranwell 64. time, and ISTR each disappeared for a few weeks and reappeared as a fg off. Cannot remember the names but will look in my log book

"Cherry Springate and Mel Buckley". (Post #56)
They were on my Varsity course, as was Keith Macbrayne, who was then on my MOTU course. (See Post #50) If C.S. and M.B. went to choppers, then I am pretty sure there was another, as I definitely recall two of them on 205, one being K.M. There was also Horace Gallop, who was already on my first Sqn, 206, in 1965 when I arrived, so he must have been a course or three ahead of us.
I wonder if there was a policy at one stage of posting the Shack N.C.O. pilots overseas, as the overseas Shacks did not carry the same weapon load as the U.K. based ones, and the cousins were not happy about non commisioned captains carrying a certain bit of Kit.

I did National Service 1951-53 and was commissioned as a Navigator. There were still a large number of NCO aircrew then, including my brother who was a Master Pilot, and QFI.
All recruitment then was was commissioned Pilots and Navigators, but I believe some NCO Radar and Radio aircrew were still being accepted.

MG, I had no idea you'd been away so long.. :p

My 1st posting out of Boys service was to BCBS Lindholme 1954, we had Lincolns and Varsity's. Most of the Lincoln pilots seemed to be NCO's, many sported the Pathfinder badge and the other common denominator, many were Polish!

Deciphering signatures in the F700 was a challenge :sad:

nco pilots
 

Chick Parkinson was the other sgt pilot

A bit of a long shot really ... But does anyone remember a Master Pilot by the name of Alec Hammond ? Sadly he is no longer with us, he passed away in 1999 aged 76.

Alec served most of his flying career in England, but he also served in Canada as a QFI, training British and Canadian Pilots in the 1940's (on Harvards) and later serving in Singapore and Germany (RAFG Comms Squadron late 60's) during the 1950's & 60's. Alec served a total of 37 years with the Royal Air Force completing over 6000 solo hours as an NCO Pilot. He eventually retired from the Reserves (AEF Chipmunks) in the late 70's ... interestingly he had to be commissioned as a P/O in the RAFV(T) to be an AEF Pilot ... which he thought highly amusing.

On leaving the Regular RAF in the late 60's/early 70's he worked in the City for a Bank ... I believe he finally retired as a village postman here in East Sussex ... a great chap and exceptional pilot who had many interesting tales to tell.

A couple of pics that might help ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2c295ed4.jpg

Alec Hammond (Left) : As Sgt Pilot with his Co-Pilot (Ralph ?) : Ansons (which I now know is an Oxford)

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...psee1cf794.jpg

Alec Hammond (BR 4th Left) : No 1 Squadron RAF 1963 : Hunters

Best ...

Coff.

What's a Nav? Sgt doing on a Hunter Sqdn.?

Somebody has to plan for them if they go out of the circuit.

1 Sqn - bosses name and face seem familiar, but cannot think why. Was he at the Towers in the 60s?

Wha do you call a Master Pilot/Nav/Sig/AG/LM/Uncle Tom Cobbley 'n All ?
 

Rigga, (Your #14 - a long way back !)

"I remember referring to him as "Mister" Riddoch, a term he seemed to like very much!"

So he should, it was his correct form of address (from above and below), as a rebadged Warrant Officer.

(So it was with P/Os and F/Os).

Danny.

On my first posting as an 'Assisting Air Traffic Contoller' at a secret airfield not far from Cambletown, aka RAF Machrihanish, there was a certain Master Pilot by the name of ' Blackie' Blackwell.
He would say that due to his flying pay, as he'd flown most types in the RAF inventory, including the Hornet, he was the most highly paid person on the unit, the Staish being a lowly Wg Cdr Admin wallah.

"Chick Parkinson was the other sgt pilot"
Of course. He was on 30/84 at Oakigton and latterly on 205 (Post #50)

In the Spring of 1965 there was a young sergeant pilot on "F" Flight of 2 Squadron, the Meteor target towing flight at Chivenor. He was on his first tour after training. I can only surmise that he was not considered suitable for a commission when he got his wings but after a short time on the flight he made the grade. A good egg.


In June '65 I was posted to Seletar where there were several nco pilots on the Whirlwinds.

Went to S Cerney as a J/T,sub Cpl,A/Sgt(aircrew cadet) in `62/3`; lovely,bracing BreconBeacons,frozen rivers,and `zip` wires,lived in the Sgt`sMess Annex with 4 other ex-airmen , with our own `batman`....no `bulling`,polishing,etc whilst all the rest on 181Cse were learning the ropes..much time spent playing snooker whilst the `orfissers` had haircuts/polished boots/brasses,blancoed belts/ends of rifles to be avoided ,etc. Went to Syerston after that,but I think we may have been down to 3 ,or were shortly after..Myself,Bill Taylor and Pete/Dave .? Harris.
Other NCO Aircrew there were,Jim Lawn,K McBrayne,Al Mavin,and `Smudge`Smith,on course ahead of us(160 Cse).We were told that we were the last NCO Pilot Cse,assuming that was RAF wide.The course that had just graduated had been `p***ed-off because the `trophies`( best handling/navigation/ground-school/aeros/had all been won by George ? Black? ,a Sgt pilot,who would have won the Leadership trophy as well,but was deemed `ineligible`.... Think he was commissioned straight away.....
My main instructor was MPlt Alex Naismith,and there were several other Masters there as well,also in the Link Trainer,and the Station Nav,both Polish(Z S Boyko?); Station Barber was Polish as well.....
Anyway,in the fullness of time, Bill Taylor and I both got our Wings; mine is dated 20March 1964 in the logbook,but I have no date for the graduation Parade,even though I was a `pimply swot` and got the G/School trophy.
Other names(horfissers) on the course were Frame ,Budd,Ray,King ,Goddard,Dacre,Fisher,H-Baker,Wyer....
Taylor went to Shacks..later BA I believe ;I didn`t fancy being a co on Hastings/Bevs/Shacks,and we,as NCOs were not allowed to fly real jets,so I went to helos...

Jenks, I really don`t remember whether any of the guys at either S-C,or Syerston,who `dropped out`,went to be Navs or whether we were training NCO Navs at the time....was only interested in the stick and pedals....only when I got to the Far did I meet my first Nav.and he was as old as my Father..!
I know `Marvellous` went to TwinPins,probably in Mid-East..? later met again at `Sheffield Doncaster RobinHood`/aka Finn on the `Wetdream`...as he was leaving for the CAA..?

In all of this Thread, I've seen no mention of F/Sgt Ron King. Ron returned from IIRC 225 Sqn and was commissioned at about that time (late 1964/5) and became a QHI. His photo appears in a history of 84 Sqn but I don't know what happened to him and can't track him through the Retired List.


Hanging on the wall of my downstairs loo (being posh, the house has more than one inside and all with a flush too) is a framed photo of Whirlwind 10 serial XP405. Ron brought this aircraft to RAF Upwood in June 1974, whilst scrounging a Skeeter which I had on 'my slop chit' and which was cleverly concealed in the middle of an empty 4400 sq ft aircraft shed.


Ron gave me a quick 20 minute flight around the local area, which proved to be the last time I went in the type.


O-D

Sycamore,

I had the good fortune to be Jock Naismiths NCO student on the course (156) which you followed after our graduation in May '63. Subsequently, after being commisioned in Jan '64 I returned to Syerston as a "scummed off" QFI. Took 3 more years of JP driving before I could grab a Hunter slot at Chivenor.

In 65/66 at RAF Strubby, there was a regular weekend visitor. A Meteor from Chivenor would turn up late in the afternoon (unit callsign was either 63 or 69, IIRC) and out would step Sgt Boulter. His squeeze would pick him up in her Jaguar, and return him to the airfield on Monday morning for his return flight to Chivenor. No idea what he did at Chivenor - I doubt anyone saw him for more than a few minutes in dispersal ;)

Coffman Starter - That Anson is an Oxford :)