oh dear
 

I quote from the above thread:

By way of introduction, apart from my role as a member of the House of Commons Defence Select Committee, I am also a serving member of the Territorial Army and it was in this latter role that I travelled through your station on the way back from Kabul on Tuesday 26th September after an eight week operational tour in Afghanistan.

Whilst I have served on several operational tours before, my motivation for volunteering for service during summer recess was to see first hand what our troops were gong through and whilst much of what I experienced was positive, I regret to say that the service provided by your station was not. If I may I would like to recite the experience, and whilst I appreciate the start and end of the journey are not your responsibility, the majority of it was. My overwhelming impression was one of a complete lack of service by the RAF and of what little was provided, was done so merely at the convenience of the RAF with little or no regard for passengers.

I am sure that there was good reason to have to arrive at Kabul airport at 05:15 for a 09:30 flight, but I would be delighted to know what it was. Having been given just 15 minutes for breakfast we were told we had to be back in the departure lounge by 07:30.

The flight finally took offshortly before 10:00 (D+30) and landed in Cyprus shortly after14:00 local. On landing we were told to take off all of'our hand baggage due to a minor problem with a widow that was expected to be fixed during our two hour stay on thc ground. (I subsequently d iscovered from a member of the crew that the fault with the window was discovered and reported in Kabul, but the crew were keen to get to Cyprus rather than stay in Kabul).

On entering the terminal, troops on the front patio were quickly told to come inside as they were not allowed to stand outside, no explanation was given. ShortIy after entering a Flt Sgt announced that it would take two days to fix the Tri-Star and that a Titan Airways 737 had been held back to fly us home. We subsequently discovered that this plane 'that had been held back for us' was in fact not due to take off until 20.00 and was in fact scheduled to take home elements of 3 PARA post decompression.

The flight was scheduled to go first to Hanover but these passengers (almost 311 returning for R&R) were informed that the flight would no longer be going there and that their onward travel would be 'sorted out' when they arrived at Brize. Shortly after our arrival all RAF staff disappeaed and no facilities were offered to troops to ring home to let families know of the delay.

At approximately 17:00 buses were lad on to take troops to dinner, being on the last bus that left a 17:20 I was told that I would only have 10 minutes to eat behre having to travel back. Not it turns out due to meal times, hut apparently due to a shift change, the airmen escorting us were due to end their shift and keen to go home. I cannot begin to express the anger that this revelation caused with the many troops who had been on a six month 'shift' m Helmand. Having been forced to return to the te rminal to meet your stations shift patterns all RAF staff once again disappeared.

20:00 came and went with no departure. Approximately 20:10 the duty mover (a Ft
Sgt) came into the terminal to announce that there was a problem – it turns out the weight of the passengers and bags were too great for the 737. He was rightly questioned as to why this hadn't been established 6 hours before when the Tri-Star first went U/S, he was unable to answer.

At approximately 20.30 the same Flt Sgt rushed in to announce that passengers had 30 secs to decide whether to travel tonight with no bags, or wait two days for the Tri-star to be fixed to travel with the bags. Understandingly passengers were not happy and when asked when and how they would pick up their bags he was unable to answer. Potentially passengers going to Gemny on R&R would have to wait two days at Brize for their bags only then to be transported by road to Germany and so miss the first 3 days of ther R&R.

It was suggested that since the flight would be travelling to Brize, the Germany passengers bags should be taken off allowing the remainder to travel to Brize with bags and the Germany passengers to travel the following day to Germany with the Tri-Star and avoid a road transfer. Whilst it was accepted tllat this was a good idea, we discovered that it was impossible because all of the bags which had been carefully segegated in Kabul had been mixed up when unloading the Tri-Star.

It was interesting that up until this point not a single RAF officer had been present in the terminal.

The Flt Sg then apologised for suggesting that passengers travel without bags as it was clearly a mad idea given the uncertainty of when the bags would follow. Unfortunately for him 15 mins later a Flt Lt (the first officer to be seen) turned up and 'ordered' passengers to get on the plane without their bags.

I wish my departure from Cyprus was the end of this sorry saga, I regret it was not. Having arrived at Brize we were handed pre-printed cards (presumably this debacle is a regular occurence) giving a number to ring to find out when the bags would arrive. Ringing the next day I was told first that the flight would now be arriving at Stansted and that my bags would be taken to Colchester. The second time I rang I was told that my weapon was at Brize but my bags were at CoIchester. Finally at my third attempt, I discovered that my bags had arrived at Brize only a few hours after me, obviously the Tri-Star damage was not a serious as was first thought.

Overall it was an appalling experience that gave the impression of a station being run entirely for the convenience of the RAF (and particularly the 'shift' system) with scant if any concern for returning troops from theatre. You will be aware that the Defence Select Comrnittce are due to travel to Cyprus as part of an investigation into the support that the Garrison provides to Operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and after my expericnce I intend to focus on the role played by the RAF.

In the meantime I would gratefu1 if you could provide answers to the following questions. If you feel unable to do so I intend to table Parliamentary questions on the 18th Oct so answers can supplied prior to the Committees visit at the end of the month...
Yours ever
Mark Lancaster

Akro has not changed then!! Regardless of how much of the above is true, I think many would agree aircraft get in the way of a 3 year tour in the sun to some of the staff in that location.
Had to giggle at the other letter.... get this!!

In summary to solve the problems at BZN, "Flat panel" information totes are to be installed!!!

And they cannot provide a BA style service....... :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

SUPPORTING THE OPERATIONAL AIRBRIDGE
In recent months, there have been a number of high-profile articles and letters on the subject of the Airbridges between the UK and our operational theatres. As the officer within PJHQ charged with co-ordinating the service, I felt it was time I wrote outlining some of the facts about the manner in which we move our personnel and equipment on operations. In doing this, I hope to provide some home truths about the performance of military and charter aircraft so that you will better understand some of the problems we face and how we are trying to solve them. Fundamentally, no-one wants to see or hear of personnel who are delayed en-route and, for example, consequently miss some of their hard-earned R&R, but it is my aim to reassure all travellers that the very best is being done to reduce the instances of delays.
Firstly though, there is no higher priority in our planning than the safety of our personnel. The fact is the threat to our aircraft is real, constant and can not be ignored. We wish to reduce risk as far as possible, and to this end, CDS has directed that all personnel moving into and out of the operational theatres in Iraq and Afghanistan on RAF AT must be moved on suitably protected aircraft. I am well aware that some other nations operate differently. That is their choice, but the UK position is to err on the side of safety and, consequently, we are more limited in the choices available to us.
Unfortunately, not all our aircraft are equipped with the same levels of Defensive Aids Suites (DAS), which reduces the flexibility when problems occur – as they inevitably do on operations when using aircraft that are far from new. Naturally, this small pool of assets has to be used carefully in order to deliver operational effect most efficiently. Where we can not fly directly to the theatre, we use a hub and spoke operation (this means flying a large aircraft like the TriStar to somewhere like Akrotiri or Al Udeid and then transferring personnel to an aircraft like the smaller protected C130 for the final leg into theatre); this type of operation is expensive to resource in aircraft and personnel and does not, despite popular belief, always deliver a better service. We can not simply purchase more protected aircraft to fill the void in the short-term; therefore, we must work within existing capabilities. The RAF C130 fleet is almost exclusively working in support of our principal operations; adding an aircraft to one theatre inevitably means taking from another. We are, however, increasing the number of suitably protected aircraft. Lengthy and complex modification programmes will increase the availability of C130 aircraft and provide more protected Tristar KC1 aircraft early in 2007. These additions will give us greater options and the flexibility to recover situations where delays have occurred. We must remember, though, that we will never stop the impact of weather or diplomatic clearances which can serve to unhinge the most well-laid plans. When trying to recover a delayed aircraft, we can sometimes be forced to wait for up to a week before diplomatic clearances allow aircraft to arrive at an airfield. Equally, the altitude and time of year, runway restrictions and fuel availability all serve to compromise payloads and our ability to make rapid programme changes.
The improvements to aircraft numbers is only one way we are trying to improve the service to passengers. The RAF is implementing a range of improvements at RAF Brize Norton, all designed to ensure that passengers are made more comfortable and better informed if delays occur. Examples of these changes are, the provision of internet terminals, flat panel information totes and easier checking in for some categories of passengers, such as those carrying only cabin baggage. Of course, while we will do all we can to improve the situation, we can never expect to achieve the BA Business Class standard, as I am sure you will appreciate.
My staff are also currently undertaking a review of movements manning and processes (including a major review of passenger handling), in conjunction with the front line commands, across all operational theatres. This review is aimed at ensuring that we have the most effective practice and staffing levels possible throughout all theatres. The RAF and Army Movements tradesmen being considered are amongst the most stretched when it comes to operations; the review has to consider how we best balance the need for adequate personnel on operations with the obvious need to maintain functions in the UK.
Sometimes, the very nature of the operation itself limits how we can serve a theatre. A land-locked country such as Afghanistan leaves us very little choice. For the future, we hope that we will be able to use Kandahar airfield as the strategic point of entry to Op HERRICK. We are, however, still constrained by current infrastructure work on the runway and the capacity of the taxiways to take a large aircraft such as Tristar. As soon as possible, we will adjust the way we fly to that theatre. In Op TELIC, the C130 fleet is being re-configured to give a more flexible service to the theatre as a whole. Much of the work is ongoing, and takes time to implement, but will produce dividends.
It is important to look at some hard facts. I have heard the groans when we talk of introducing a Tristar service to a theatre, but the reality is that during the past year, when it flew in support of Op TELIC, its performance was quite good. 89% of tasks actually ran within 6 hours of planned times. This was achieved at a time when we only had between 1 and 2 suitably protected aircraft available for the majority of the year. We experienced a few 24-hour delays, but even including those delays, the average delay to all tasks was only 3½ hours. Setting aside reliability and looking at pure journey time, the hub & spoke operation, currently used in Op TELIC, takes an average of 8 hours longer than direct flights from Basra for passengers to get home. On balance, I am convinced that the Tristar is capable of delivering a good and reliable service over time. We will never avoid the occasional difficulty, I have already outlined our limited resources and some of the constraints, but as more protected aircraft come on line we will see things improve.
To summarise, the PJHQ places significant importance on the maintenance of the moral component of its personnel on deployed operations. Frustrations felt when individuals’ travel arrangements are affected by delays are always felt by the Commanders in theatre, at PJHQ and the front line commands. We are, however, operating in environments that have significant levels of threat to our personnel and equipment. It is that very threat that drives the manner in which we transport personnel and equipment. The UK has no intention of compromising on the safety of individuals travelling to/from operational theatres, given the threat and operating constraints with which we have to live, we will continue to make maximum use of scares resources. However, I have described a number of measures under way which I am confident will improve the service at all stages of the journey for passengers. We can never avoid delays altogether, and we must remember that we are dealing with operations; expectations of the service should be placed in that particular context. Certainly, we are not resting on our laurels because it is our responsibility to provide the best service we can to those who are at the sharp end of Defence.
Air Commodore M J G Wiles MBA FCILT RAF is Assistant Chief of Staff J1/J4 at PJHQ, responsible for all Personnel and Logistics support of UK forces deployed on operations overseas.

Good informative letter about the way ahead with aircraft. Shame about Mark Lancaster's experience.

Not really, just full of excuses about years of under funding of major transport fleets coupled with lack of manpower. Still that’s what people expect from the senior airships; one couldn't have them pointing the finger at themselves and saying we let this happen. RAF, never has the F stood for Farce more than it does today, its all very embarrassing.

Agree with Snakepit - with the rider that if the Airships had been really brave they'd have told the MoD and the PM before GW2 that they did not have the AT assets to support exped warfare so far away.

Still, at the outset GW2 was going to be all over by Christmas, wasn't it?

Where's his problem.. The muppets didn't lose his baggage, and it landed at the same airfiled he did:)

Totally agree with snakepit.

Surely 'as a member of the House of Commons Defence Select Committee' he should be taking a step back from childish jibes and look at why we are in such a mess with AT. Having been on the receiving end of similar treatment, I agree that the movers/ adminers at many DOBs could do more to make passenger/ baggage handling a better experience for their 'customers'. However, I'm sure these 'passenger terminals' are equally frustrated by the lack of resources (manpower and material) they are given to complete their task.

Childish jibes on a forum from an inconvenienced MP, rather than using his position to address the root cause of the problem with the government? I'd never believe it!

An 8 week look and see in Afghanistan....nothing to do with getting a piece of shiny metal for his chest then?

I'm posted to Cyprus soon; bet the cushy life has been axed by then, especially in response to the letter!

Seriously, the attitude of the movers has been shocking for many years; morale may be low in the RAF, and the military as a whole, but you should still be able to provide a good service and particularly to your fellow servicemen. Shift change excuses are poor skills; you stay on shift until the job is done and staying half an hour for late pax to eat a meal is not that difficult to arrange.

I experienced something similar coming back from Telic for R&R but we had 15 mins for breakfast! At least bunk beds and a TV were provided though. When trying to return from R&R back to theatre, I was told that my name wasn't on the list and I wouldn't be able to travel (despite having written confirmation from the FMCC in theatre!). I eventually convinced them (why didn't I just go home?) that they should squeeze me on, only to be told that they now needed me to be the PRO (despite a Lt Col on Board and I'm only a Flt Lt). Cheeky Barstewards. I did get a row of seats all to myself though.

Edited to add that WPH has the MP bang to rights; he's there to improve things, not whinge like us.

Mark Lancaster is one of two MPs in Milton Keynes. He is a member of CIMIC and during his time in the 'gan his blog was published in the local free newspaper. During his time in theatre he seemed to spend a lot of time flying around the country and seemed very adept at finding constituents with whom to press the flesh. From his blog he didn't seem to do a great deal of work (although perhaps he left the boring stuff out ;) ). It was a good read and certainly preferable to the local wimpish Labour MP who was against the war but voted for it.
The final blog which detailed his travails in returning to the UK spoilt it all. He seemed to have no comprehension of the difficulties facing a stretched AT fleet. Fact is, aircraft go u/s and when they do the RAF can't simply conjure up a replacement there and then, British Airways it ain't. Most importantly he got back to the UK in one piece and his baggage arrived the following day. In his blog he accepted this was not inconvenient as he had to return to BZN to collect his weapon in any event.

Complete Lack of Service
 

No Complaints
 

Am I one of the few that has had excellent experiences with Crabair ?

Telic: Flew home via Cyprus, superb service, lift from the terminal to the mess, room prepared (the lass that works in the mess office is rather nice and was there earlier this year). Flight home on time.

Various trips to the Falklands: Slight niggle having to arrive at stupid 0'clock at Brize (for what reason?) but great trips down and the customary "airshow" from the F3 mates (bless'em) on arrival.

Various trips to Cyprus to visit RN Cyprus Squadron: Again on time, friendly and even some Billy Idol played through the cabin on approach back at Brize!

Her Majesty's Flying Club do a good job with the resources and I have no complaints. (Air hostees in flying coveralls very funny, heck some of them are quite attractive)

MFWF :D

Had me going there for a minute.

It is an appalling way to treat anyone, let alone battle-weary troops. Ten quid says that any one of those people involved would moan like h*ll if his Easyjet flight to Malaga was 5 minutes late or if any other part of the service was a fraction below par, adding: 'Of course, I have to move hundreds of battle-weary troops every day swiftly and efficiently.......blah, blah.' Tragic.

Ppers,

Sorry for the following rant, but one or two comments posted above let your Service down.

Just loved the shallow, crass and peurile comment from Mutley; just goes to show that the RAF should be wound-up by the end of the year. Why am I not surprised that the significane of the MP in question, having given up his summer recess to serve, is entirely missed and his actions ridiculed by a junior individual (within a junior Service)?

A childish jibe? Any resolution from the MP's concerns will begin, in one part, by tabling questions, which he has aldready done. Pse allow the Defence Select Cttee the freedom of their actions and, hopefully, the RAF will be re-aligned to providing a more effective service to its customer.

Rant over.

:-)

After 16 years in the RAF I can categorically say that my experiences of Movers, overwhelmingly, and Akrotiri, very often, were not pleasant. These folk are sh1te, double sh1te and triple sh1te! Simple. They don't have any excuses, they're just plain vanilla sh1te. :*

Regie Mental: "...aircraft go u/s and when they do the RAF can't simply conjure up a replacement there and then, British Airways it ain't." I can tell you that BA doesn't have spare aircraft either, they just have more of them. If one breaks, they may pull another from a different schedule .... but that schedule suffers nevertheless. However, BA are unlikely to behave like those monkeys in Akrotiri.

Call me Benjamin if you like, but I don't suppose a Tory MP would be trying to make any political capital out of any of this, would he?

Sorry all but I have to agree with WPH.

An MP's job is to look at all the facts before shooting from the hip and criticising the troops he wanted to "be in bed with". What he experienced is the result of under funding and undermaning full stop.

The blame cannot be place with the very small cog in a very big wheel that let him and the R&R troops down. When the DSC looks at this they hopefully will look at the big picture in a professional manner and not make offhand criticisms.

I too have experienced the good and bad sides of movers, but much like any baggage handlers/airport staff they are easy targets for frustrated travelers when things go wrong, through no fault of their own. However, everyone including the movers are undermanned, and being in Cyprus does not stop people from doing OOA ops. Who is to say that the one mover on shift that day hadn't in fact given up his post det leave from a 4 month tour just to look after the passengers in question. Who then would criticise him for wanting to finish his shift to get home?

We are all undermanned and working with seriously knackered kit. I don't think it does us any favors knocking other trades when we should be blaming the lordships and MP's who are happy to send people to war in this state!

I promise never to defend movers again.

You aint seen my right.

Oh me miserum....
 

Once again I am moved to apologise to members of the other services for incidents over which i personally had nothing to do with. I have friends from way back who have joined the Navy and, more particularly, the Army who have rapidly become increasingly critical of the RAF despite suffering similar equipment and financial constraints in their own services.

The problem is this in my mind. Whilst the originating events which caused the delay to the Honourable Mark Lancaster were accidental (the window fault, which, incidentally, may not even have been a consequence of ageing equipment), the main source of discontent, yet again, is the way in which WE treated them subsequent to this problem.

It is this ineffective management and cr@p service, with more concern for one's own end-of-shift time than others' discomfort which makes my blood boil. I am proud to serve in the RAF and proud of the task we achieve with the pi$$ poor equipment we are left with after years of financial neglect. But I cannot be proud of this, and many other similar tales. Quite simply, it is not how you would want to be treated yourself so why do people (ie movers) do this? The returning troops have every right to expect that their precious R&R will not be frittered away in a deserted RAF AKT terminal building, and they have every right to expect their bags come home too, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY they definately have the right to be treated like human beings and with a portion of customer service. Correct and timely information, with opportunity to pass on the news to waiting relatives, its not so much to ask!

Time and time again, conversations with friends in other services focus on poor AT back from theatre, and time and time again it is the inhuman and unthinking way in which they have been treated that causes the most offence. We can excuse the technical failures and actual delays with ageing fleets and lack of investment (and they do seem to understand this), but that does not excuse the way in which these guys are treated and served by US.

Its a disgrace and I am ashamed to be associated with it. But I can assure passengers that the crews who actually operate the aircraft in these roles (of which I am one) go to whatever lengths their rules allow to make sure the needs of the passengers are accomodated.

And as an aside, whether or not the Right Honourable gentlemen gets a gong for his service or not, I can't express enough how glad I am that at least some members of the government are trying to understand what it is they are asking of our chaps in the 'Stan and Iraq. Well done him. And some part of me is pleased he experienced the very worst of RAF AT experiences as there is a better chance something may be done to rectify it.

So glad you enjoyed it, oh and not a junior and not in the Junior service either!

:D :D :D

MF,

I wondered how long it would take..................imagine him thinking you were educated enough to be an airforce chap:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Thanks ABIW, he should have realised that my diatribe was merely a narrow minded attempt at bringing a little grin to those that doubt an MP's real intention.

Bravo for going to Theatre but I for one have been and came back with the usual run of delays and problems which I am all accustomed to without complaint. I would much rather he pursue why the Government hasnt funded the MOD more adequately or indeed why the AT fleet hasnt been provided with more DAS equipped airframes which would preclude these events from happening.

If you operate a fleet of transport aircraft which other countries would consider as a historic flight it's not that amazing that you have breakdowns!
Invest in some Airbus to do the leg to Cyprus and take the load off the Tristars - stop cutting at the coal face and look at the upper echelons!

I agree Riley, in the short term move the three DAS aircraft to Cyprus and have a different means of delivery from Cyprus back to UK. We should also as a matter of urgency get the rest of the fleet DAS equipped as soon as possible.

It's good to know that the ongoing purchase of lots of Typhoons will relieve the pressure on our rapidly crumbling AT and rotary assets.

I think you're missing the point...

He wasn't maoning that the aircraft had gone U/S, he was moaning that he'd been delivered to the teminal 5 hours before the flight time, then delayed all day with little time to eat and no chance to call home, with virtually no staff to explain why and those that did making very vague and misleading statements. No wonder he was annoyed, and he'd only been gone 8 weeks!

As for carrying the fault to Cyprus, it makes sense since it would be a lot easier to obtain spares and repair than it would in theatre. Being a window, it may also have been within limits to begin with, and deteriorated on the next leg...

We tend to foget that we are simply a means to an end for the Army. We pat ourselves on the back and nob off home / to the hotel when we complete a flight. They regard us as an obstacle to be overcome or endured on their way to their proper jobs.

Be nice to change that so that they looked forward to being treated with respect and appreciation for the crappy job they've just completed...

Glum, what I am saying is that if the RAF had more than three DAS equipped Tristars the problem would be reduced. Couple with this the forward basing of that fleet would reduce the UK to Cyprus leg that could be easily done using alternate non DAS equipped aircraft. That way we reduce hours flown and keep a spare capacity forward. Hopefully then the only delay in Cyprus would be during baggage transfer.

Reading Mr Lancaster's report I am not surprised at how badly the RAF was treating our lads in Green.

As an Ex-RAF Airman who was a Lyneham some 20 years ago things certainly don't seem to have changed much, particularly in the RAF's ability to manage SLF.

And the fact that RAF Officers were conspicuous by their absence.

I remember copping 'Duty Airman'at Lyneham on a very regular basis, usually once every 3 weeks.

Very rarely did I even see the 'Duty Officer' let alone get any direction from them.

However, on one instance I did and both I and our friends in Green could have done without it.

A TACEVAL was called early one morning when I was on Duty Airman. Within minutes of the hooter going off the whole of 3 Para turned up at the gates, apparently as part of the TACEVAL, and were due to be flown out PDQ.

At that precise moment the Duty Officer turned up screaming "Don't let them in! Don't let then in!".

Bear in mind that there was a convoy of Land Rovers and Bedfords stacked up at the gate tailing back for Gawd knows how far.

"Why not sir?" was my perplexed reply.

"They're not allowed on Station until they've been booked in" was his reply.

A Para Lt. and a very large Corporal (I'm not kidding - this bloke made Jaws out of the Bond films look small) appeared demanding where they should go to get the planes.

The D.O. spluttered "You can't proceed until you've booked in. I want every vehicle registration number and the names, ranks and serial numbers of every person in the convoy."

Both the Paras and I looked at the D.O. and looked at each other.

I seem to recall saying to the D.O. something along the lines of "Sir, these guys are on our side!"

The Paras comments had quite a few F's in them.

The Paras and I walked over to the Convoy, me armed with a clip-board and the Para Corporal with an LMG in his paw (I jest not - it was the first time I'd even seen an LMG and this bloke was waving it around like a pistol!).
We quickly sorted out where they had to go and I just stood there looking offical making up vehicle regs, names, ranks and serial nos as they drove past and for many hours after.

I seem to remember that the names 'Smith' and 'Jones' appeared on my list a lot.

And what did the D.O. do when I'd finish with my list?

File it in the round one.

Thank God I'm a Civvy now.

This unfortunate affair seems to have re-fuelled some not-to-distant events of the past; even so, I cannot help but agree and sympathise with the sentiments of both the MP and his fellow passengers. My own experience of returning from both 'eastern' theatres has never been anything but sad. I've put up with having to leave homeplate 9 hours(!) before my flight is due to leave BZN, with no reason why; I've watched movers take the baggage of troops and literally hurl it through the air and then come crashing to the floor; I've been courteous to movers and had rude, almost alien, responses to simple questions most of the time. IMHO, the one common thread is that RAF movers can be relied upon to make your life difficult/uncomfortable, never be polite and never do anything quickly. They also wield their power for their own amusement.

I think this recent letter from The Hon Mark Lancaster should certainly raise some questions about the standard of 'service' on should expect from the Royal Air Force. It's high time someone took hold of the movers and re-trained them on how to be polite, task-orientated and proud of doing a hard job with some very old aircraft. In contrast, my experiences once on-board the RAF AT fleet have always been very pleasant. I just never look forward to the purgatory between leaving my own front door and walking up the aircraft steps.

ICBM

Not BA certainly. Time to spare, go by air.

I wonder if there is a clue here?

How many feet on the ground are there at LHR to get the SLF loaded and a 747 off the ground?

Checkin desk staff - no SNCOs at front of house.

Luggage handlers - out of sight.

Documentation check - RAFP

SLF hanging round and wait staff - newspapers, magazines, cafeteria, last minute shop etc - all airside - BZZ? none?

Departure Lounge checkout - ground steward/ess

To aircraft - bus driver or guides.

Never a mover in sight and each to their own job.

However when it goes pear shaped their 'DAMO' is often invisible too. The clue might therefore be in the landside and airside entertainment. Make Brize etc a bit more customer friendly rather than a late night bus shelter.

At ASI, when the Timmy started through it came through at 0'Chr*st hundred but the NAAFI cantee was only open 0800-1700. Al Bowman, the stn cdr soon put paid to that.

At an O'Chr*st hundred turnround in Colombo the entire shop/cafe area opened up for a single Vickers Funbus. I still have a hideous piece of Singalese porcelain to prove I was asleep at the time.

I am told that there isn't even any money in the budget to fix the broken lavatories in the 'Air Terminal' :hmm: at Brize, let alone to provide any of the other facilities to which you refer, PN....

Once upon a time you could set your watch by the departure time of the Vickers FunBus... Not any more - most AT is well past its use-by date. Not that the fast-jet centric MoD-box dwellers would realise that, of course.

By the way WTF left Brize at o-dark-hundred last night and yet again failed to follow the SID? Was it that $hagged out African DC-8 again? It sounded as though it was coming through my windows!

BEags, yes, hard to remember the funbus was a young filly back in 84, barely 18, even the T* was just growing up, 8 or so was it not?

Now the geriatric jets are 40 and 30.

You should put in a flying complaint and get the underfunded RAF to pay for triple glazing.........................

Which came first? BEags or Brize?

Stupid question, probably BEags :)

Get compensation?

Stupid question again:

"We have procedures in place to ensure that . . .

"We are aware that . . . but the flights are essential for . . .

"African Airways? Sorry nothing to do with us, take it up with . . . in darkest Africa . . .

No, no, make a £1m claim for the noise. It's all the rage.

Glum, what I am saying is that if the RAF had more than three DAS equipped Tristars the problem would be reduced


the problem is also the spares for the DAS.

If the route was flown via Dubai (or abu Dhabi)as in the past the day would be 4-6 hours shorter for the passengers. ( and thats a long time after 6 months in Afghan) Akt of course is the low cost option.

The Co, loadie, stewards and GE all fly BZN-KBL-AKt there are 2 engs and capts.

Compensation? Nope.

Just get the hired mercenaries the MoD has to augment the undermanned, underfunded, overstretched RAF with these days to follow the published SID please!

Well, here goes.
I too apologise to anybody who has been messed around on RTb from theatre, or indeed any other Tri* flight. I make this apology on behalf of the crews, the squadron, RAF Brize Norton, the RAF, and indeed the MOD (who seem unwilling/unable to make their own apologies for the lack of servicability of the AT fleet).
It is not excusable in any way to be treated as these experiences portray, and I sincerely hope that this form was not continued once actually on the Tri*.
Rest assured that certainly everybody I have flown these trips with has done their utmost to get the trip done with as little disruption as possible to our passengers, and although it may not seem the case at the time, we, the crews, are doing our best with the assets available. As noted in a previous thread, we are doing up to a 24 hour day to try and make these trips work if at all possible, and more often than not 'carrying' faults where necessary (and safe to do so).
Please also believe that it is utterly devastating, degrading, boring, tiring, and unsatisfying, to be constantly apologising to people who are trying to get home to snatch their R&R (or for whatever they may be travelling) for the delays and disruptions. Where delays have been numerous/significant I have tried to get to the terminal to brief the pax myself, so that they may get the story from the horses mouth.
As a final note, if anyone does in the future experience problems on board with the way they are being treated, or even if it's just a question, certainly I would be more than happy to answer those questions if you were to bring them to the flight deck.
Cheers, all the best, and sorry,
FB007

flyboy,

Thanks for your post. Having been at the receiving end of the movers' worst efforts and passengers ire when I've had to pass on the bad news, I appreciate your efforts. I don't think anyone is attaching blame directly to the crews of the aircraft (jeez, did I actually say that to a crab?). Nearly all the AT crews I have met have been true professionals and I know how they want to get the job done. The finger-pointing is aimed at the people higher up who fail to ensure that the system works. Those who secure their own futures at the expense of the British Armed Forces as a whole.

The ones it is aimed at are the jobsworths, who seem largely to be in the movements train and whose managers at various levels just don't give a toss. It can be a thankless task I'm sure. But, as many crabs on this thread like often like to point out to soldiers; they joined, so lump it or leave. Worse still is the attitude of those at Cyprus, and I have personal experience of this in less pressured times. It is reminiscent of the Bishops Court approach to life in NI, "not my problem".

As someone pointed out earlier, the soldiers who rely on the RAF for transport really don't care about the whys and the wherefores, they just want the RAF to do what the RAF are supposed to do in this case, transport them from A to B. Without nause and without problems. It's a service and as from any service they expect it to work. It doesn't matter to them the reason why things go wrong, just get me home on time with as little hassle as possible.

Most soldiers don't have first hand experience, as Maj Loden did, of the RAF's sharp end. What they almost all see is the abysmal AT trail and the degrading and almost inhuman way they're treated by what they see as "the crabs" on their often debilitating, multi-day journey to where they need to be or home from it. Ask any soldier the bit he or she dreads most about deployments and that will usually be 'the move'. And that comes down to one organisation, go and guess who that is. So, for different and often ill-informed reasons, they still see the RAF (rightly or wrongly) as "utterly, utterly, useless" in this one respect.

I've read the often contemptuous comments here from a lot of the AT fleet about the people they're employed to transport around the world. If one word by an RAF officer/NCO conveys contempt of the Army as a passenger to his subordinates, that will spread to the organisation as a whole. I believe that word has spread RAF-wide, and sadly the movement organisation now takes it gospel: soldiers are beneath contempt and as such it matters not how they're treated. :=