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Muslim accosts injured Para in hospital
From today's Daily Telegraph:
Muslim accosts injured Para in hospital By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent (Filed: 02/10/2006) A paratrooper wounded in Afghanistan was threatened by a Muslim visitor to the British hospital where he is recovering. Seriously wounded soldiers have complained that they are worried about their safety after being left on wards that are open to the public at Selly Oak Hospital, Birmingham. On one occasion a member of the Parachute Regiment, still dressed in his combat uniform after being evacuated from Afghanistan, was accosted by a Muslim over the British involvement in the country. "You have been killing my Muslim brothers in Afghanistan," the man said during a tirade. Because the soldier was badly injured and could not defend himself, he was very worried for his safety, sources told The Daily Telegraph. A relative of the Para said the man had twice walked on to the ward where two other soldiers and four civilians were being treated without once being challenged by staff. "It's not the best way to treat our returning men," he said. "They are nervous that these guys might attack them and, despite being paratroopers, they cannot defend themselves because of their injuries." The Ministry of Defence, which said that it had no record of threatening incidents, indicated that there was a military security presence at the hospital and it co-operated closely with local police. A MoD spokesman said there was "appropriate security" at Selly Oak for the 11 servicemen currently being treated. But Liam Fox, the shadow defence secretary, called the treatment of wounded troops "an absolute disgrace". "They should be in completely separate wings even if this means shutting down entire NHS wards. It is a betrayal of our troops having them treated in mixed and open wards. Those who have been injured on operations must be with those who understand their predicament in a secure environment. "The Defence Secretary should be having urgent talks with the Health Secretary to do this otherwise this Government's commitment to our Armed Forces is nothing but talk." There is also resentment among serving troops unhappy about being treated in a NHS hospital that they believe is unsuitable for military patients. Soldiers on operations say they would rather receive a more serious injury and go to the top American military hospital in Ramstein, Germany, than end up in a NHS hospital. They now half jokingly refer to getting "a Boche rather than a Blighty" in reference to the wounds that would send them home. Ramstein has an outstanding unit for brain surgery, and neurological intensive care beds in Britain are in short supply. "The blokes see it that if you are unlucky you get wounded and go to the UK at the mercy of the NHS, but if you get a head wound you get sent to Ramstein in Germany where the US has an outstanding medical facility," said an officer serving in Afghanistan. "It also does not do morale much good knowing that within 18 hours of being wounded you could wake up in a NHS hospital with a mental health patient on one side and an incontinent geriatric on the other." The latest figures show that 86 troops have been injured in Afghanistan during the past six months of fighting. More than 600 soldiers have been flown back to Britain after being injured on operations abroad since 2003 with most treated at Selly Oak, which is also the headquarters of the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine. In the past decade the seven military hospitals in Britain, Germany and Cyprus have been closed. The remaining military hospital at Haslar, Portsmouth, is expected to be sold to developers next year. |
That is appalling, I had a gut feeling that this sort of thing would happen. I am all for a multi cultural society with freedom of speech but please.
The last time I returned from a warm and arrid place I was a little uncomfortable stopping in a garage to get a coffee in my desert combats, but to have that happen when you are completely defenceless is an utter disgrace. Once again the cutbacks of yesterday have a marked effect on our servicemen and women today. |
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this seems to be the product of a slow news day. Some Muslim bloke sounds off at a Para, so what. Are we really saying that our troops should either be kept in foreign hospitals or put in wards here that are exclusive and guarded by armed police? That is way more worrying than some gob****e sounding off.
Military hospitals should not have been closed but they have. The only other option is to use NHS hospitals and as to being put in a bed next to an old person or whatever, the last time I was in Wroughton I was on a mixed ward and the bloke next to me used to scream in his sleep. I do believe however, that our seriously injured service personnel should be bumped to the top of the list for all treatment (I suspect they are already). As for verbal abuse, well, if we are fighting for democracy and free speech overseas, best we practice it here. Personally, I think any Muslim with attitude would be well advised to keep away from an injured Para, a bit like kicking a rabid dog in the nuts. |
If Walter Wolfgang, the old git who shouted at Tone last year was grabbed under terror laws, then this 'brother' should have been hoiked off for a serious kicking, er fall down the stairs to the cell, M'lud.
Then, ANY amount of public money should be used to fit him up for: threatening behaviour; trespass; or being a berk. And I'm a very, very easy-going bloke. CG |
It was amusing to read Liam Fox's comments getting all steamed up about the derisory facilities for the treatment of the wounded. It was John Major's Govt that brought in the swingeing cuts to military hospitals. I would rather hear what a future Tory administration intends to do about the mess-aside from sticking windmills on top of NHS hospitals. Maybe we should drag out the former Tory Ministers and ask them to account for their actions.
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The old military hospital at Halton is still sitting idle and empty. It may be impossible to return to the full network of military hospitals, but it should not be impossible to fairly rapidly return one to use.
When not required for op casualties, it could and would accomodate dependants and civilians, as it always used to. (My dear old mum passed away in Halton, and while advanced cancer is never going to be a bowl of cherries, the PMRAFNS staff and RAF medics certainly provided the best possible environment, care and treatment for her, giving her useful and happy extra months, and then treating her with kindness and respect, allowing her to fight and die with dignity). |
I googled miltary hospital closures and found an article in the BMJ back in 1994. It raised the concern that should the closures go ahead, this would erode the military medical training base to the point where you couldn't simply re-open a full hospital even if you wanted to.
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko
(Post 2883839)
The old military hospital at Halton is still sitting idle and empty. It may be impossible to return to the full network of military hospitals, but it should not be impossible to fairly rapidly return one to use.
When not required for op casualties, it could and would accomodate dependants and civilians, as it always used to. (My dear old mum passed away in Halton, and while advanced cancer is never going to be a bowl of cherries, the PMRAFNS staff and RAF medics certainly provided the best possible environment, care and treatment for her, giving her useful and happy extra months, and then treating her with kindness and respect, allowing her to fight and die with dignity). The RN doesn't want it to close, nor, as far as I am aware, do the other Services. Why can't the ******** in central Government see this and actually do what's right for a change? |
Jacko I was treated at Wroughton and have similar memories to yourself. Wroughton would take overspill from the Swindon NHS hospitals. It had a state of art MRI scanner, which was why I was there. Of course this hospital was closed by John Major, for jam tomorrow, even though it was located between the 2 military air heads in the UK. The Tories have been ominously silent on the Defence Budget, their turn may be coming once more. Liam Fox should not be allowed own goals whilst his policy lite leader ignores the plight of troops taking appalling injuries on the killing fields of Afghan. There has been fierce fighting in recent days, it is not reported because journos cannot get in there. This war continues and so the casualties will mount.
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Originally Posted by BellEndBob
(Post 2883815)
Some Muslim bloke sounds off at a Para, so what.
As for verbal abuse, well, if we are fighting for democracy and free speech overseas, best we practice it here. |
Had it been a westerner sounding off about muslims causing death by bombing tube trains the police would have been quick enough to arrest them!
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Slow news day or not, this should not have been allowed to happen; where was the security and is it being reviewed? I have been involved with the repatriation of injured servicemen who have managed to avoid the ultimate sacrifice by the skin of their teeth and should be given the security that is needed to recover with dignity. I was accosted by a man and woman at a service station whilst RTB from BZN whilst in dessies, and told that what I had been doing was wrong. All I could do was agree in the case of Iraq and pay for my goods and walk. The headlines 'Officer batters living cr@p out of couple out for country drive' was starting to illuminate. People like these are in the minority though, and most seem to support us when they see us.
No Tax for OOA's, bringing back service hospitals.......short term vote winning sound bites Mr Cameron, put your money where your mouth is because I truly believe if you get in next time, you will be the man who reaps what Labour has sown - and it isnt good. := |
I received EXCELLENT care from Prinecss Alexandra's Hospital, RAF Wroughton, and also had my broken leg repaired nicely at RAF(H) Wegberg. I heard (not sure how true) that Wroughton was offered gratis to the local NHS people on closure, but was turned down, as it would have derailed plans for the new Great Western hospital. Absolutetely disgraceful that the military hospitals should close in the first place, then to compound it, they are left to rot.
As for this individual in Selly Oak, I wish injured bloke's mates had taken him round the back of the incinerator and beaten the living **** out of him. Bu what would I know? I'm just a retired old pongo that's hacked off with the whole shooting match. God speed to those still serving this "government". |
Originally Posted by BellEndBob
(Post 2883815)
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this seems to be the product of a slow news day. Some Muslim bloke sounds off at a Para, so what. Are we really saying that our troops should either be kept in foreign hospitals or put in wards here that are exclusive and guarded by armed police? That is way more worrying than some gob****e sounding off.
I'm not labelling Birmingham as a bad place, its not however, it is any area of concern in relation to terrorism, fact. You can't walk into a maternity ward without passing through a locked door in most hospitals so, it would not take much to do something similar to the wards where our troops are recovering from their injuries. It's hardly an invasion of public rights & I'm sure any visiting relatives would welcome the security of their loved ones. |
Tombstone.
My point is that if you have to protect our servicemen from the society they are supposed to be fighting for, then something has gone horribly, horribly wrong. The simple fact is we are fighting in 2 unpopular wars where people on the street feel we are far worse off now than when this began. (extra security, petrol prices etc). I have had far more respect from the locals in Basrah and the Stan than I have had from our beloved public back here! With that in mind, our politico elite are not going to open/retain any military hospitals. It does not grab headlines or win votes. Makes you proud to serve doesn't it? |
We are second class citizens mate, shocking.
Can you imagine how the public would react to the news of one of our Paras being killed in a UK hospital by a muslim, perhaps using a suicide attack? Not to mention the effect that would have on the morale of every serviceman. |
Originally Posted by Tombstone
(Post 2884039)
We are second class citizens mate, shocking.
Can you imagine how the public would react to the news of one of our Paras being killed in a UK hospital by a muslim, perhaps using a suicide attack? Not to mention the effect that would have on the morale of every serviceman. |
Let's be careful not to go down the route of anything which the PC-nazis might construe as racism.....
The true scandal is the appallingly run down state of the UK's Armed Forces - particularly the so-called health care. I was advised by an RAF doctor (who saw this coming) to sign on with BUPA rather than risk the wreckage of the once proud RAF medical service. |
Just been reading the Telegraph in which there is an article on munitions used throughout the Paras tour of duty:
443,000 rounds. 3,500 mortar rounds. 400 hand grenades thrown. Not to mention the tonnage dropped by the Bona mates & A10s. I can only imagine how much John Reid regrets stating that "British troops might leave Afghanistan in 3 years time without firing a shot." Dr Reid, you really are a :mad: kn*bber who represents his party in an uncannily accurate manner. :ugh: |
What would have happened if the Para had defended himself, and swung for the Muslim bloke?
No doubt the Para would have been classed as the gulty person, in a "racially motivated" attack. If that muslim doesnt like what the government are doing in Aghanistan, then he should poke off and find another country to live in. Or are there no other countries where he can live IN SAFETY (thanks to the forces) that'll let him in? |
I am becoming angrier and angrier at this inept governments ability to handle any situation that they allow our brave military to fall into.
Be it - lack of men for any task. - lack of support. - lack of equipment. - lack of money. - lack of respect! - and now, when trying to recover from wounds received whilst fighting for us, they have to put up with any Tom, Dick or Mad mullah or terrorist! freedom to enter their Hospital ward and berate them for fighting their so-called brothers. Enough is enough! Where is the security to prevent this? Damn, I'm mad now! I award the government ministers involved one of these:- http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...er_closeup.jpg For their lack of courage and moral fortitude and their damn lack of respect. Perhaps we should E-mail them with white feathers to show our true feelings about this. I really am glad to be out now! |
Back on page 1 BellEbdBob said:
My point is that if you have to protect our servicemen from the society they are supposed to be fighting for, then something has gone horribly, horribly wrong. I think there would be many here who would agree in the strongest possible terms with those seniments, Bob. Look on the bright side - at least the guy accused the Para of killing his Muslim brothers. When I wore the not so light blue while another unpopular war was taking place some 30+ years ago, we were frequently called baby killers whenever we appeared in public at home (in Australia). And you didn't need to be in uniform - in those days, a short back and sides haircut was as good as announcing yourself to be a serviceman. I have to agree with another poster's comment. If the fellow hurling the abuse has been white Anglo Saxon Protestant directing his comments at a fellow Briton who happened to be Muslim, I can't help but feel that handcuff weilding plods would have paid him a visit poste haste and he'd almost certainly be now enjoying free accomodation in one of Her Majesty's less salubrious hostels. |
Out of trim,
I am so much with you on this point, I'm thoroughly disgusted and ashamed to be British these days. If anyone has the address of this Para, please pm me because I'de like to send the guy a get well card, and show him that the good amongst us are grateful and proud of him. As for the civil servant on wods of ££££ - yeh, I can believe that, pretty much sums up what the government think of the military when compared to the pen-pushing blunties of the civil service - bastards! I need a stiff drink Thanks to the paras and every other British servicemen out there. I'm pleased I'm not with you all anymore, but I sure do feel for you all, every day! TSM |
1. We hear from the report that this was a "tirade" directed at the soldier. If the soldier had reason to believe that he was under threat of physical attack, such a tirade would satisfy the definition of "common assault." It isn't necessary for an actual physical attack to take place, simply that the victim had a justifiable fear that an attack would take place.
2. Religious 'aggravation' is a crime: The Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 amends the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 to include religious aggravation within the definition of Section 28 CDA. Casework Bulletin 35 of 2001 provides further guidance. All references in this chapter to racial aggravation should therefore be read to include religious aggravation. The question now is, "What are the police doing about this incident?" Has the perpetrator been 'interviewed'? Charged? If not, why not? Too busy handing out speeding tickets? Or too hot to handle? Though I've been against our involvement in Iraq from the very start, Afghanistan is a different matter. The drug dealing and deviationist Islamic teachings are where the real threat to the west always came from. When I read about this assault on one of our soldiers it made me so bloody angry I could hardly speak. |
:ugh: :ugh: Utterly speechless.
There is no point anymore and anything we might say will be 'spun' to make it our problem/fault/intolerance etc. :mad: 'em. |
A campaign to fight for the post-combat medical care that servicemen and women deserve would be one of the most worthy things that could be done by PPrune and ARRSE members.
Perhaps someone might like to raise the issue through the " Be the Editor" feature on the Victoria Derbyshire programme on Radio 5 Live. http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/morning.shtml I think in the post-Loden email climate this would be best done by one of our former serving members. Perhaps the editorial staff could be directed towards this forum and ARRSE. I see that they are talking about this story over there but I haven't read through it yet. The care that our people are (not) receiving is the biggest scandal of the whole chapter. |
Originally Posted by Brain Potter
(Post 2884957)
A campaign to fight for the post-combat medical care that servicemen and women deserve would be one of the most worthy things that could be done by PPrune and ARRSE members.
Perhaps someone might like to raise the issue through the " Be the Editor" feature on the Victoria Derbyshire programme on Radio 5 Live. http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/morning.shtml I think in the post-Loden email climate this would be best done by one of our former serving members. Perhaps the editorial staff could be directed towards this forum and ARRSE. I see that they are talking about this story over there but I haven't read through it yet. The care that our people are (not) receiving is the biggest scandal of the whole chapter. A wounded Para, on a ward in a hospital situated in the largest Muslim concentration in the UK, gets verbally assaulted (and yes, a race hate crime was committed), and it makes precisely zero column inches on the BBC,and there is no outcry from Neu Liebour for an increase in security or a review. Anybody else spot the difference? |
Originally Posted by PompeySailor
(Post 2884974)
Anybody else spot the difference?
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The latest issue of GQ has a long article on the treatment of wounded and discharged service personnel who have served in Iraq. Worth getting your hands on.
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Jimlad,
I'd bow out of this one if I were you. One of the key points in a dust up is knowing when to leg it. A lesson you don't seem to have ever learnt. Aside from that. I have heard that there is an awful lot of stink being caused by service men going into NHS wards. This is happening at a very high up level and the practice may soon be coming to an end. If so, it will be a triumph for common sense, but unless the media get's stuck in I won't be holding my breath...... No chance of the military hospitals opening up again unfortunately. |
US Military Pay....for comparison.
The extra pay entitlement can be found on other pages at this site. Perhaps the Retired Military folks, members of Veteran groups should stand up and form volunteer groups to assist the wounded and their families. That is a very strong part of the support network we provide our servicemen and women. Para's have a strong bond as do the Marines....our Muslim friend might be a bit less likely to repeat his rude act if the proper baby sitter was standing by that Para's bedside. The US Marine Corps has a Liasion Team that provides full support to the wounded and their families at Bethesda Naval Hospital. They book airline flights, meet the families at the airport, see them to the booked hotel, carry the baggage to the assigned rooms, transport them to the hospital, and just plain go the extra mile to help out. These guys are primarily Reservists with some Active Duty staff. All it takes guys is for someone to give a ****....and DO Something! Perhaps one less pint in the mess each night and a donation to a group that is doing something for the wounded and their families is in order. Do you have a group setup at your base/station dedicated to looking after returned casualties in your area? If not.....why not? Get the Wive's Club off the Gin and out helping other Military wives whose husbands are away....go around and fix a leaky tap yourself....remind them they are not forgotten. If these guys were laying in the dirt wounded....you wouldn't walk on by without lending a hand would you....what is different now. They need you every bit as much now as during the gunfight, if not more, because they are alone now fighting a really tough fight. I had some guys open milk cartons for me and give them to me when neither of my hands were up to it ....a small gesture but very much appreciated. If you get involved you will get far more out of it than what you put into it....I promise. It could be your turn one day. |
It seems so different over here
Did a boat trip round Hampton Roads to see Norfolk Naval Base last week - apart from some fairly obvious differences in systems and ship numbers it was impressive to have the commentator point out, and then sing the praises of, the massive VA hospital, and the medical treatment being provided to US wounded.
Flew from Chicago to Madison the next day courtesy of American Eagle - last person to board was an archetypal USMC officer in desert uniform. Flight attendant starts her usual introduction by pointing out how proud the airline is to have a USMC officer on board and the whole cabin clapped and cheered - what a difference of approach. JB |
Daily Telegraph, 3 October 2006
Our wounded soldiers deserve better treatment Tony Blair is the most bellicose Prime Minister in British history, punctuating his premiership with military intervention in distant lands. He has sent troops into combat on six occasions – air strikes against Iraq in 1998 and against Kosovo in 1999, the "invasion" of Sierra Leone in 2000, of Afghanistan in 2001, of Iraq in 2003, and now the second deployment in Afghanistan to quell the Taliban insurgency. Mr Blair adumbrated the philosophy behind this serial interventionism in his 1999 speech in Chicago in which he warned that appeasement does not work and that the most pressing foreign policy problem facing the West was "to identify the circumstances in which we should get actively involved in other people's conflicts". The corollary to Mr Blair's in many ways laudable desire to right the world's wrongs is unprecedented pressure on the UK's Armed Forces. With the exception of the last century's two world wars, it is arguable that they have never in modern times been so stretched and so hard-worked over such a protracted period as under this New Labour Government and its Chicago doctrine. In these circumstances, our Servicemen and women have a right to expect only the very best treatment before, during and after combat. If only. To the dreadful catalogue of equipment shortages and failures that have all too frequently characterised these armed interventions must now be added the unforgivable treatment meted out to wounded soldiers. The grotesque spectacle – reported in this newspaper yesterday – of a wounded paratrooper being berated in an NHS ward by an angry Muslim who accused him of "killing my Muslim brothers in Afghanistan" simply beggars belief. Military casualties are only being treated in NHS hospitals at all because successive governments, in a crass display of short-term expediency, sold off military hospitals to property developers to help raise cash. The result? British soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq joke that they would prefer to take a more serious combat injury because that would mean them being sent to the US military hospital in Ramstein in Germany – not thrown on the mercies of a general NHS ward and taking their chances with the possibility of being harangued (or worse) by an aggrieved Muslim wandering in off the street. Mr Blair's assertive foreign policy in a world made dangerous by Islamic terrorism can be justified. What cannot be justified is the casual neglect with which the brave men and women who have helped him deliver that policy are being dealt with. Their courage, skill and professionalism are rightly lauded around the world and this Government owes them an enormous debt of gratitude. It's time it started to repay that debt by ensuring wounded soldiers receive the treatment they so richly deserve. |
Seems to me that this is an area in which a Federation could raise the issue with the media, and hopefully improve the publics awareness of the realities of life in the services.
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Here's something we can do
Even if its not much!
On their website today, the Telegraph is running a chance to post your thoughts about how military personnel are treated. The link is: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ublview03.xml It wouldnt hurt for dozens (maybe hundreds) of us put up a one liner or even more. BTW I'm not a journo. i was just feeling pi$$ed off at not having anything to do so I went searching. Regards XRAF:ok: |
I agree with Pompey Sailor...Now lets see Jimlad walk the plank
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Going back 20+ years - imagine the fuss if injured Paras had been put on civilian wards - and an Irish Nationalist had been caught "berating" a Para about Bloody Sunday.
Something Would Have Been Done. |
Something Would Have Been Done. 20 years ago = the Blessed Margaret :ok: Now = the Cursed Bliar :mad: QED! Back to thread -military hospitals were wonderful. Had an overseas misfortune many years ago (here goes the incognito). Patched up in the local MASH/FST in theatre. Then to BMH in Cyprus for slightly more comprehensive care. Back to UK - overnighted in Wroughton (so handy for Brize), then off to Halton for plastics and orthopaedic stuff ..... Good as new eventually, except a slight limp when anyone mentioned going on a parade!;) And then there were the Sisters' Messes ....... :E |
[quote=BellEndBob;2883815]I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this seems to be the product of a slow news day. :ugh:
Well looks like this slow news day is continuing to attract interest from the hacks. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...nsoldier03.xml The closure of dedicated military hospitals must have seemed an "easy win" for the numerous budgeteers, but who would have predicted the steady flow of casualties requiring specialist health care? Once again there has been a serious lack of joined up forward thinking. The Services have always looked after their own, and leaving them to the mercy of the NHS was always asking for trouble.:eek: |
RAF Nocton Hall, an RAF Wg Cdr surgeon (Spud Murphy) and the best part of a year at the excellent tri-service rehab establishment at Headley Court means that I CAN walk, albeit with a slight limp. Eternally grateful.
Cannot believe the erosion of the level of care that has occured since - it borders on criminally negligent. BEagle continually reminds us that he would join the Air Force that he joined but he wouldn't join today's air-farce. I totally agree with him. |
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