Hollywood in Dambusters Remake!
 

No, really!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5301998.stm

Can't wait to see those brave boys of the 617th Bombardment Squadron, USAAF, take down those German dams in their trusty B17s!

Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the remake, you just know that the main focus of attention is going to be what they call the dog.

If indeed they include the dog.

:ugh:

Oh my, oh my. I hate politically correct clap-trap and this one will take the cake.

Guy Gibson being told that his beloved dog, Afro-American, has been hit by a car. Tears and drama!

AAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! !!!!!!!

That would by Colonel Guy 'Chip' Gibson, would it?

No doubt the brave boys and girls of the USAF will be depicted in a daring raid to destroy the bridge on the river kwai with the first atom bombs having used the enigma that they captured to discover that the communist dictator Saddam Bin-laden who singlehandedly masterminded the start of the WWII with the sneak attack on perl harbour, had based his terrorist training camp under the bridge.

Can't wait
:}
JAS

On the subject of the dam-buster raids, is it true to say that it that it didn't really change the outcome of WWII (as the original movie portrayed). Not trying to slight those brave people who took part, or the brilliant engineering involved.

Langball, largely correct - German industry quickly recovered. However, it did remove a lot of German troops from the front line to form units to protect the dams. But the main effect was a huge boost to civilian morale in Britain.

Not forgetting the appearance of Michelle Pfeiffer as Guy Gibson's 'batwoman'
Here's a location shot spotted en-route from Cyprus to UK
http://jjd.pbase.com/image/66065590.jpg

From http://www.heureka.clara.net/lincoln...dambusters.htm :

"In the long term, it proved to be little more than a minor inconvenience to the Ruhr's industrial output. A beneficial side effect was that 27,000 men were withdrawn from Atlantic Wall defences to rebuild the dams and 10,000 men were allocated to protect Germany's other dams in expectation of further raids, although no further dam raids took place.

Where the raid did have an impact, was that the pictures of the broken dams proved to be a huge morale boost to the Allies, especially to the British, suffering under German bombing. It also told the Germans, the British could strike at the heart of their war machine. Maybe even more important, it showed the Americans and the Russians, what the British were capable of."

So, as with many "elite force" operations, the direct impact may have been small, but the ongoing fear, and the re-allocation of assets that followed added to the pressure on the German machine. 10,000 men defending the dams who could have been in Northern France in 1944....

Er.. It's Peter Jackson, so it's New Zealand, not Hollywood!

Wonder if the WETA workshop people are going to visit the BBMF to get some Lanc footage to base their effects on?

If Peter Jackson delivers half of the faithfullness that he did to Tolkiens books then I think that everyone on these boards will rate the new film in their top 5.

Worried what they will call the dog though....blackie?

I hope they manage to use the special effects to good use and don't make it look like a glorified xbox game.

Peter Jackson remember is responsible for the excellent Lord of the Rings Trilogy and also the terrific remake of King Kong. I wouldn't write this one off quite so fast. Better than Tarantino getting the job just imagine, "Hey Gibson yo Mutha, I killed your dog N**ger and F*** yo mutha, now I'm going to torture you and give your wife a foot massage".....fades into scene of RAF airmen dancing to Sing Sing Sing whilst cutting each other with a switch blade......

No real choice but to use computer generated Lancs - but I'll put up with that if they get the sound of those four merlins right.

And the name of that non-white labrador too!

There are 2 airworthy Lancasters and who knows, maybe the budget would stretch to getting Just Jane airworthy too.

Good point. Eyes watering at (zero probability) prospect of seeing three Lancs in the air. :sad:

To be honest, the dog is totally irrelevant to the story and was only added for "human interest". It would avoid a lot of hassle, and stop attention being detracted from the real story, if it was left out altogether.

Chorttled my way through the early posts, however,have fath, Sir David Frost will be the executive prducer.

Given Jacksons track record it should be a good movie. Have to say, however, that I am now standing by for the announcement that Ewan McGregor will play Guy Gibson though.:rolleyes:

Talk elsewhere that PJ has already done some Lanc footage.
This Guardian blog post/comments on the subject mentioned TDB's appearance on The Office:
and a likely "rebooting" of that Labrador:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2.../dambuster.jpg

would this be a better idea than the Hollydud film? :hmm:

Greg

OH THE IRONY!!!!:D :D

Having an anti-semitic New Yorker lean out of a Lanc, dressed in a Wg Cdr's uniform, shouting "Don't you know who I am?"

Hmmm, more bombs Grommet? And a nice cup of tea.....

Sorry to disagree, but if there was no reference to the dog, how would you explain the success codeword for the breach of the first dam? 'Nigger' is an integral part of the story, IMHO.

I understand that in the remake, 'Chuck' Gibson's B-29 clips the conning tower of U-571 on the Mohne See during the run-in and is hence able to recover the Enigma cipher tool.

A picture of some prototype bombs:

http://www.wensleydale.co.uk/images/mature.jpg

Sorry Orac I disagree. The dog is an important part of the Dambusters story. That is why his grave is still tended at Scampton.

Not only anti-semitic, but anti-English... The Patriot- the English portrayed as evil bar stewards, and eventually the commanding officer is skewered on the Stars and Stripes (at which point the veins were sticking out rather prominently of my forehead). Braveheart- need I say more. That's irony for you.

So almost everyone on this thread so far has been anti-Hollywood if not anti-American, so that's different how than Mel's apparent dislikes?

I didn't see this thread before posting a new one "Dambusters MK2", but according to the news in Wellington, and it's on the front page this morning, Hollywood isn't mentioned, and Mel won't be in it! It looks very much as though Hollywood, and American, involvement will be minimal, and besides, Peter Jackson is a stickler for accuracy. Most, if not all of the previous posts are therefore irrelevent!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3782818a10,00.html

At least this one actually has a genuine US hero - McCarthy - as well as assorted Kiwis, Canadians and Aussies.

As for the dog. The name is racist now and it was racist in 1943, even if the use of it by Gibson and his contemporaries was unconcious racism. You don't need the name in the film, even as the codeword. :=

They will start off with something like this... courtesy of CGI Artist Dan Meyer.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3...07_03-copy.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3...ate/may_29.jpg
I personally think the new Dambusters film is in good hands with Peter Jackson. He is a pilot and I think owns some vintage aircraft.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0405/S00185.htm
Aviate 1138

2OLD,

We can't go around deleting pieces of historical fact just because it doesn't fit in our Nanny State PC world. It was in the original, I see no reason to leave it out of this one, though I suspect they will.

Heh, I knew it wouldn't be long before the dog controversy started up.

Personally I agree with ORAC. If there's even the slightest chance that hand wringing revisionists decide that altering the past to suit today's morals is the way forward, the whole dog angle should be left out of the film. There's plenty of other things concentrate on and having a dog called "Off-white" or something would just p!ss everyone off, insult history and divert attention from the story of the crews. Sorry state of affairs, but there you go. It's going to occupy a lot of column inches whatever.

Good CGI above - however the biggest issue I have with CGI creations in aviation films is generally not their appearance but the physics of flight, which is generally shocking.

Still, Jackson, a self confessed Anglophile and military aviation nut is probably the best man to hold the reigns so fingers crossed. That Kiwi article above says they're building ten full-size Lanc mockups for the ground shots. That'd be quite the sight!

Mr Jackson has a good track record, he is a aeroplane enthusiast to the core, CGI and the use of it has improved since "Pearl Harbour", thank God. The chance to show a story of what happens when tyranny meets sheer bloody mindedness, brilliant minds, and brave & heroic defenders of their way of life can't be brushed aside.

While I think the original has all of the above, the modern audience hasn't got the capacity to fill in the gaps in the picture on the wall in front of them. If the remake is true to the story with the bravery and spirit of all concerned, of all nations (there’s the multi-national ‘hook’) and shows and makes audible the never to be seen or heard again sight and sound of a squadron of Lancasters, in Surround Sound…well, I’ll watch it. Hopefully, so will enough people to re-coup the cost. Let’s face it, Mr Jackson only has to get the studio’s money back, he’s in the position to make films because he wants to, not because he has to.

“We’re having trouble getting hold of a Wellington bomber for the trial of your bomb, Wallis”

"Do you think it will help if you told them I designed it?”

At least in the original film the aircraft were Lancasters flown by RAF crews; the Technical Advisor was Sqn Ldr HB (Micky) Martin DSO DFC & Bar and the Actor who played Wg Cdr Gibson was (in WW2) Lt R Todd MC (7th Battalion Parachute Regt) who, on D Day, was the first to arrive with his platoon at Pegasus Bridge in support of the Glider borne Troops of the Ox & Bucks Light Infantry.

Now, where do you find a team who would have one tenth of one percent of the actual WW2 knowledge of that team?

On that basis, should we have a general rule that any movie based on historic facts over, say, 70 years, should be forbidden?...... :hmm:

Anybody else seen any other Dam Buster threads knocking about?

Sqn Ldr Micky Martin?

From Scapegoat 2004>> Having recently inherited a ltd edition print I would welcome some info into it's origin and history. It's entitled 'Tribute to 617 Squadron Past and Present' by John Pettitt from 1986. It's signed by the artist and and is number 77 of 500. It is signed by 8 former 617 Sqn aircrew: AM Sir Harold Martin, Gp Capt G L Cheshire, Gp Capt J B Tait, Wg Cdr P J J Day, Sqn Ldrs G E Fawke, T C Iveson & D J Shannon and Flt Lt R S D Kearns. Grateful for any info.

Scapegoat

If Ewan did get a part, it would be fitting in respect to the fact his brother Colin was a modern day 'Dambuster' during the nineties! :D

NavalEye

The word doesn't need to be airbrushed out of history - quite the reverse, because it is an example of how Gibson was a product of his age, class and upbringing.

But it does not need to be included in a modern film of the operation, because a repugnant controversy would distract a modern audience from the key elements of the film - the dedication and sacrifice of the crews.

And if you want to complain about the airbrushing of history, what about Mrs Gibson? It wouldn't surprise me if PJ included a girlie interest, but it will probably be Gibson's duty WAAF, not his troubled marriage.

So, when it comes down to it, what's the key moment; the sight of the Mohne Dam collapsing, with a third of the squadron down and more to go? Or the historically correct codeword being received at base?

Or Gibson going off to write the letters?

"Let’s face it, Mr Jackson only has to get the studio’s money back, he’s in the position to make films because he wants to, not because he has to"

Scoggy, as far as I can tell, there is no "studio" money involved as PJ is more than capable of funding the whole thing himself from his small change......

The quote in my morning paper here in Wellington mentions a mere $76 million!

There is an excellent review of Gibson in Max Hastings book "Warriors" published last year.ISBN0-00=719885=x