Uniform at UK airports
 

Having recently arrived back at BZN from somwhere sunny in company with a lot of tired but stoic troops from the various sandy wars, we were told by the unusually helpful mover over the PA that personnel were not to wear uniform at UK airports as the operators had 'agreed a policy' and we would be removed from the premises (presumably forcibly if necessary).
I must admit, I found myself a little outraged that guys who are coming back from theatre (especially many of the Army guys who have put up with a lot and are hero's in my mind) should be treated in this way if they need to travel through a UK airport. Before I start writing to my MP is there anyone out there, movers, Mil Pol, anyone else who knows the background to this 'policy'? Has it come down from the govt? Or is this just a company policy - if so is it legal and discriminatory?
If there is a good reason then fair enough - neck wound in - but I can't think what that could be other than some kind of PC embarassment (which is not a good reason). In my humble opinion the UK public, and foreigners arriving from overseas should see more uniform in public not less. If we can't be proud of our troops and our uniforms then who is going to be?

Speaking purely as a civvy I think we should be proud to see the services in uniform, in public if they are happy with that. I've seen the forces of other countries in uniform in public & I think it creates a good impression not a negative one.

Stealth
 

My understanding of this issue is that that the airport operators do not want bods in uniforms on their patch, presumably from a security standpoint. I believe it has been agreed at MOD level. The theatre commanders (whichever one you may be in) have been told that part of the return brief is to have a set of civvies to change into if you are moving onward through a civil airport (not that the suntans and nice green sandy luggage wont give the game away).

:mad: outrageous!!!

Or the weapons, assault vests, kevlar, ECBA etc. All coupled with a plane full of guys, even the most polite of which, will have undoubtedly developed the usual case of detachment Tourrettes Syndrome that won't start to wear off until after a couple of weeks leave. Makes it all a bit academic really doesn't it :E

But then a detachment just wouldn't be a detachment without the pointless REMF rules and regulations to dick you around and push you just that little bit closer to having your very own Private Pile moment!:ugh:

Contrast with THIS.

Yes I know it's only a commercial, but the sentiment is there!

Totally outrageous.

As if the overstretched, underfunded forces don't have enough buggering about as it is, for some faceless pratt to have decided that they may not be seen in uniform in a UK airport is scandalous.

This policy MUST BE ****CANNED NOW!!

That commercial pretty well sums things up - the contrast between the way the US treats its forces and the way the UK MoD does......

Return the favour,send the mandarin (who thought of this 'dog toss' idea!!) over to Basra in civvies, then get him to change into DPM!

Playing devils advocate - I think it is not unreasonable to expect military personnel to wear civvies at civvie airports. This "request" is not made lightly and you should respect other peoples rules on security too! After all, many of the management genuinely love the publicity of an Armed Forces presence at airports.

Wearing Uniform, in the present situation, is no different from hanging around the Ticket counter at Luton/Stansted with a banner stating who you are and where you all mainly congregate on a regular weekly basis.

Awaiting the (thankfully written) Flak.


(Edti spelin)

Those are actual US soldiers in the commercial, but you will notice their uniforms were devoid of any insignia. The commercial was shown during the 2005 Super Bowl, and was ranked as the best ad among the nearly 60 shown during the game.

Land of the Free, Home of the Brave...

Cheers! M2

MightyGem, that commercial was the first thing I thought of when I started reading this thread. Unfortunately, as Brits, you go and live in the desert heat for months, getting shot at, and when you come home you are treated like a third class citizen, a warlike embarrassment to this tree-huggy nation, or even a threat.

Incidentally, I was chatting to a cab driver last night. He drives cabs as his second job, being a university IT techy by day. He takes home 50% more than me in a good month, the same as me in a bad month, from his cabby job alone. He was also very proud to tell me that he only declared about 10% for tax purposes.

Sometimes it makes you wonder why you bother.

Rigga,

I see your point, but only to a certain extent.
On the way home from some hell-hole, you'll only pass through a civvie airport as a one off. It's not as if it's a regular thing. Catching the train every weekend to go home whilst wearing the uniform should definately be avoided, what with creating patterns and predictability and all that.
I know everyone is concerned about security but common sense has to come forward at some point.

Disgusted,

what should be happening at Airports is being asked into the VIP/exec area for a drink or two and then being escorted to your flight.

All provided gratis of course as after all it would hardly dent the profit these places make!

It seems we are to be treated as the Americans were upon return from Vietnam. A forgotten group of personnel that the Government use to appease the US which in turn are using us to appease any US civil unease by allowing troop reductions.

I remember getting a bollocking for not wearing a civvy jacket on the bus that ran between two RAF bases every weekday morning.
I mentioned that it was unlikely that a terrorist would think "Hmmm... that bus full of young men with short hair leaves one RAF base and drives to another everyday but they can't be military as they're all wearing civvy jackets" :confused:

Certainly we could learn something from the "cousins" and it's not often you'll hear me say that!

Indeed, I think I've had more respect in uniform in the US than in this country ... apart from one petrol station in Kidderminster who thought I was an ambulance driver! RAF Wings = Redditch Ambulance Force??

And don't those playing the "security" card know that the current baddies will target you if you're a Brit, in or out of uniform??

Bl:mad: dy hellfire, I'm agreeing with BEags again!

US military travelling on orders have to wear uniform on civilian flights within Conus.

So, I assume that you have to lug a set of (unusable) civvy togs around the sandpit for three or four months, just in order to satisfy this load of cobblers should you transit a civvy airport when you come back?:hmm:


Kin barking.:mad:

Flew on Dec 27 from Chicago to LHR for an onward flight to Middle East with an American carrier. Lady asked if I was military and was upgraded to Business class. In there were 5 uniformed US military personnel. Not that rank has anything to do with it, but all Private / Corporal rank.

For all the bad said about the Americans, they treat the ir boys and girls right.

Think that would happen in BA ? My ar$e it would !!

IN FACT !!!! The Bl00dy BA MOD Leisure line is more expensive than logging on as a civvi on their website !!!!

This country and it's attitude to those that fight for it sucks. It's embarrasing and as Max says, it makes you wonder why you bother.

Perhaps our government is further hoping to keep the embarassment of this £ucked up and ill advised campaign to a minimum. :rolleyes:

Perhaps they hope that the public will forget, if they don't have to see the uniforms at airports to remind them, that our personnel are still being sent into harm's way? :rolleyes:

Perhaps they are further hoping that a terrorist organisation is stupid and will fail to realise that our personnel travel are obliged to travel civvy air if they aren't actually seen wearing uniform? :rolleyes:

SNAFU. :ugh:

That's my take on it too.

Now just think what the Sun would make of this:

"Bliar ashamed of our Squaddies - orders them not to be seen in uniform at civi airports".

Hope somebody points the editor to this thread...

Sorry to say but when a bl:mad: y footballer handing his tapes in, is more improtant to the BBC/ITN than 2 military personnell dying in Afghanistan. You just know the country has gone to rat sh:mad: t:mad: :mad:
Tried explaining to work matees why I was so peed off about it and all i got was ' calm down, thats what they get pad to do':ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

I gave up after that :\ :\

did any one ever see the set up our american friends had at incirlik?? awesome!! morale tents ( thought they were something that you wouldn't tell the wife about at first!) free calls home, the usual food court type of stuff, and beer so cheap they were almost giving it away! strange that the said americans frequented our bar most nights!!!

i think the way our troops get treated here is disgraceful! the politics of what's going on does not matter in my eyes as the boys and girls don't have a choice in the matter and are paying dearly!!! i had a house party a while ago here and one of the neighbours wives was rattling on..." this is wrong, that is wrong, they shouldn't be there etc etc...." she was asked politely to leave!

i've been out of the mob now for nearly a decade and look back on how the world has changed, and how I was LUCKY to visit some great places around the world on detachment, but now the places don't seem at all fun, and surely never a party that my trips were!!!

i was at red flag one year and a few of us decided to visit LA on our long weekend, fantastic trip.... we even got 'twofers' on the flights!!!! dirt cheap accomodation in LA and taxi drivers that were simply in awe of the BRITISH MILITARY.... forces discount in all the eateries we visited etc etc .... my point being if you ever...and believe me i tried once or twice to see the reaction.. asked for forces discount in this country, you were looked at like some sort of criminal!!

i myself would applaud forces arriving back in blighty like it were second nature, even it i was in a packed terminal and no-one else bothered!!
these boys and girls are some of the most sincere, bravest, professional people in the world, they deserve that respect....

sorry to go on but my wife always makes a point that nothing will stop me from paying my respects on rememberance sunday! and tells everyone....
my worry is that the little kids are going to grow up and just not realise what people are sacrificing on a daily basis.....

will leave it at that, but am happy to discuss anything.....

J6T

Was having a beer in RAF Garrison Carterton the other night. Two young squaddies came in to the pub in uniform.They had missed their flight because of traffic (they were in MT) and had to wait until the following day, so quite rightly before going off to the Sandpit for the Third or Fourth time, they decided to go out for a beer. They did not have any Civvies available to them.

When they came to the bar to order a beer, they were asked to leave because uniform is not allowed in the bar?? I could not help but intervene and explained a few facts of life to the barman who said this was a ruling from Brize for security. Security for what? 80% of the people in the two pubs in Carterton are military, ex-military or Civvies working for the military. I pointed out that with the money the pubs take from servicemen and women that in the unusual event a squaddie is stranded with no civvies, about to go off and run the gauntlet yet again that the landlord should give a free pint to all of those departing who come in for a pre-deployment refreshment. They would have none of it, they backed down on the uniform issue and i bought the lads their beer all night.

I have experienced the amazing warmth and hospitality afforded to US servicemen by their country, for the British Armed forces it is just a Joke.

Mmmm now what was that poem i once saw on PPRuNE about nobody wanting soldiers until its time to fight, and then when they do, please do it in the background because nobody really wants to know as long as everyone is safe in their beds?? I know somebody on here will have it or a link to it.

I am going to forward the link to the advert above to David Cameron (Our MP)
and see what he says. Why didnt we have an advert like that during all commercial breaks for the world cup??

This is a link to more from the people that did the commercial above. Just click on any state. Do Alton Towers do this?? http://www.herosalute.com/

good on you 'tigs'... interestingly did anyone else 'help' you out with convincing the barman??? places like that would only learn one way.....

" the bars empty tonight frank!... yes it has been every night since we barred them scruffy squaddies!"

nice to know that i'm not alone in my old age developing my 'military victor meldrew' attitude

regards

J6T

Tigs would this be the one you refer to:

Tommy by Rudyard Kipling back in 1890

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, 'We serve no erd-coats 'ere.'
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed and giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again, an' to myself sez I:
Oh, it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Tommy, go away':
But it's 'Thank you, Mister Atkins,' when the band begins to play -
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
Oh, it's 'Thank you, Mister Atkins,' when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Tommy, wait outside';
But it's 'Special train for Atkins' when the trooper's on the tide -
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
Oh, it's 'Special train for Atkins' when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?'
But it's 'Thin red line of 'eroes' when the drums begin to roll -
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
Oh, it's 'Thin red line of 'eroes when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that , an' 'Tommy, fall be'ind,'
But it's 'Please to walk in front, sir,' when there's trouble in the wind -
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
Oh, it's 'Please to walk in front, sir,' when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Chuck him out, the brute!'
But it's 'Saviour of 'is country' when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

greycoat

Thats the one - how quick was that response:D . Awesome thanks.
it says it all really about this country's attitudes.

J6T

Nobody else chipped in i am afraid, but now you've got me wishing i had used the line ' I dont bloody belieeeeeve it' whilst explaining to the barman.

Found another link here http://www.shortfamilyonline.com/lif...ves/000645.php

Its quite a nice tale of what one family experienced at Sea World in terms of the tribute to all servicemen and women. I wish i had been there. Does anyone know if they still do this?? I also had problems with the first link to the ad. There is a good link on this page.

you SHOULD send that link to alton towers! they may take you up on it!
they have been hired out for a muslim holiday according to the 'sun', so they may actually fancy the idea.... a forces day.... ID cards admit 2 adults 2 children (lets not forget they suffer equally when dad/mum is away!)
you could be onto something tigs.....
ps you are editting quicker than i can post..... how does it go again?
" i don't bloody belieeeeeeeve it!!"

Uniform worn in public
 

I see enough airmen and squaddies around the local Sainsburys in uniform but not wearing headgear. Why should a civil airport be different? The Government isn't proud of its Armed Forces and the public are hardly aware of them. They are more likely to be shot in uniform in the sandpit(s) than when they are going about their business in UK. If they are shot at in an airport then it shows security is slack IMHO.

Sadly, I would suggest this attitude is a sorry legacy from, and "hollow victory" :yuk: for the efforts of the "darling boys":mad: At one time, personnel in uniform were a common sight. Then, as we all know, wearing uniforms off base ( more or less ) became a no-no due to the security threat. Fair enough. However, in the interim, before the order was rescinded, a couple of generations grew up without a clue as to whom / what the Armed Forces do or look like---other than on the TV news of course. And lets be honest here, unless you live in the vicinity of an RAF base, Garrison town or Naval establishment, a significant proportion of the UK population never see Service personnel---no more air shows, open days, few recruiting tours-if any. Consequently, the role and status of the Armed Forces has now been diminished ( aided and abetted by a collection of :mad:that you wouldn't really be able to distinguish from the bio-regradeable version produced by dogs --other than by the aroma of hypocritical political angst of course ) to the extent that, whilst the security issue is a valid reason, it is now much more a reflection on our "society" that they would prefer the status of a footballer to be prominent in their minds than the Armed Forces.
Just how long does it actually take to deplane and transit "xx" amount of troops through a civvy airport---with a bit of planning and co-operation from all involved I wonder ? . As for the lack of discount for Service personnel, well again, it reflects the fact that many simply have no idea as to what and whom they are dealing with.

And of course, said operators are more than happy to "entertain" p££ed up chavs and yobbos on their way to Ibeeza or Ibeefa (depending upon the standard of literacy achieved during their one day or so per week at school as to how it's pronounced of course) yet are twitchy about the short term presence of UK Armed Forces. Not much in the way of ££'s to be made out of them after all !!----

I suppose it would be too much to hope that somebody within the PR Depts of the various Services actually recognises an opportunity to positively promote their purpose and those who serve in such?.

Sorry about the rant----just a get a shade p££sed off when I read about this sort of attitude.

Tigs2, Was there 3 weeks ago and they still do it before the main show.

facsimilie

Thanks, my girlie is in Afghanistan and i would love to take her there on her return (it would be worth the flights and the time just to see her face). Thanks. (are you in the service? If so i hope you stood up and took the applause)


J6T
have sent the three links and an explanatory letter to the whole of the Tussauds group. Lets see what happens (I wont hold my breath), also to David Cameron MP..

Tigs2, Was in the military many years ago, we may slate the Americans for many things but the way they treat their military is quite humbling. Perhaps they learnt their lesson after Vietnam.

Yes, you can say what you like about the Americans, but the fact is that their servicemen and women are held in high esteem, Unlike here in the UK, where they are treated like (and regarded as) second class citizens.
Its well known that refugees and asylum seekers in this country are now treated infinately better than our military folk.

Shame on us all for allowing it to be so.

The saddest part is tho' that none of our very senior officers have got the balls to stand up and say NO!! Come on CAS, CDS and all the others, stand up and be counted and tell the politicians that you are NOT prepared to have YOUR men and women treated in such a disgraceful and shameful manner.

TSM

Here Here!

Had cause to take the young 4fs to the dentist in a town not far from the home of the British Army. I was in uniform, wore a hat and believe I am always smart. My sons could not believe the looks of either bewilderment or disdain I received. I walked 2" taller and returned the looks of those who choose to stare. Very very sad :(

As a civvy truckie, whose old man was RAF fast jets for nigh on 25 years, I can certainly understand the pride with which you should be allowed to wear your uniforms. ESPECIALLY in public.

TSM. I think those members of the public who have got any brains, hopefully me!, certainly do not regard you as 2nd class citizens. I have many friends in the RAF, and I grew up in that community, unfortunately for medical reasons I could not join it. I am rightfully proud of them, and you.

I don't own an airport:( But if I did I'd be buying!

Keep up the good work

Cheers

Chesty

PS Blair you are an ignorant c**t. Get a spine like the boys and girls who defend your country:ok:

Humble taxpayer makes further comment
 

Un- bl:mad: dy believable !!!

Who are the idiots who make up these rules ? Probably some civil-servant I expect, God forbid that an Officer in H M Services would be responsible !

Personally, I think uniforms should be worn with pride in our Chav State.

This policy is an insult to service personnel returning from active service who have probably used up their 'baggage allowance' just for essential kit and I doubt that many of them have suitable accomodation to keep decent civvy kit for the return journey.

Absolutely pathetic. 'nuf said

I put this thread here because I was pretty horrified by the notion that personnel in British military uniform would not be welcome at UK airports. People arriving from abroad will see heavily armed police in uniform as a security deterrent, but the military it seems are persona non grata in their own country unless it is at the annual remembrance service.
The guys who arrived at the same time as me from theatre were reduced to washing and cleaning themselves in the arrivals lounge toilets at Bzn as there were 'no shower facilities available to them' (gateway house anyone?). I must admit I admire the way they took it on the chin - I was furious.

Those that have commented that the troops might be a bit jaded and use some swear words in public are kind of missing the point. The whole country needs to wake up and see the faces of the troops coming back from theatres various and realise that we are at war. It may not be in Europe or on the beaches at Dover, but we are sending our young men and women off to fight in a foreign land and many of them are coming back dead or badly injured. I have some questions:

1. Why does nobody know (or they aren't telling) how many British service personnel have been injured in Iraq/Afghanistan since 2001?
2. Why are we hidden (the military) from the public?
3. How many govt ministers (or shadow ministers for that matter) have visited injured service personnel in hospital? If there are 'morale boosting' visits lets put them on TV so the whole country can see what the troops are going through.
4. Why does it take so long for a coronial inquest into each death? If, God forbid, a family member was killed in a car crash it would take less than half the time for the inquest to be heard.
5. In UK law the trial of persons accused of an unlawful act must be conducted within a sensible amount of time or the judge can throw it out based on the unreasonable nature of keeping someone waiting for justice. Yet, if you are in the military and accused of a crime it will take 3+ years to come to trial. Why are their different standards applied?
6. Why does our govt insist on putting ministers in charge of the MOD who would never have survived IOT or Sandhurst if they had joined up?

I must admit I found the whole hand-wringing and national angst about the World Cup pretty surreal against the back-drop of our friends and colleagues getting shot at and killed on a daily basis.

I said it before on the thread about the Dr from Kinloss who wouldn't go - that the only reason most of us still do what we do is for the mates and comrades around us. I lost my idealism some time ago and the cynical nature of the way the govt conducts its propaganda has finally finished me off. Most of us don't go to war for an ungrateful country and we definately don't do it for Tony Blair. We do it for our brothers in arms.

We must be allowed to wear our uniform in public, anywhere in the country with pride.

I've got two takes on this:

Firstly I think it should be made optional for people to travel in uniform. I'm personally not a fan as it's difficult to relax and No2 blues - God forbid No1s! - just don't travel well. I'd actually resent being forced to wear it when travelling for a variety of complicated reasons, not least I don't like being a walking billboard!

As for other issues - upgrades, discounts, free entry to places etc. I think we're being a bit naive. Similar schemes in Britain would be so widely abused they'd be withdrawn in days in a similar fashion to the Blue Peter badge wearers trying to get into a zoo en masse. Or can you imagine LCpl Bloggs and his mates from 2 Para showing restraint in BA's First Class Lounge Bar? As a race we're programmed to take as much as we can and pay as little as we can, unlike the Americans who - perhaps programmably - follow the spirit of their privileges by not kicking the ass out of them and, on the whole, self-police themselves. If you've ever tried to get a Spam to get you a case of beer from a UK BX you'll know what I mean - compare that to a tab-smuggling squaddie from BFG.

Where we are missing a trick is by utilising our combined buying power for proper discounts - not those published in the Forces Discount Brochure. If we were organised - some might say by a federation - we could be a fairly powerful economic bloc and could almost certainly negotiate substantial discounts for things like car insurance, just like the civil service do already.