I had the joy of attending a meeting in Abbey Wood last week. In one of the tree house cafes, there was a Sqn Ldr aircrew type in DPM rig and special non reflective boots. Perhaps the airlines are saving us from JS uniforms regs. That said; doesn't explain the requirement for plain clothes on the Timmy down to MPA.

A serious point: many years ago, wasn't there a hijack of an A/C with uniformed US serviceman on board? I seem to remember that they were singled out for special treatment.

FWIW, we at Yeovilton are positively encouraged to wear uniform ashore - since the change in policy wrt NI - mess kit in the pubs in Sherborne before the JCP always goes down well. Keeping the RN and especially the FAA in the public eye is just one facet of the whole recruiting drive to ensure we get sufficient inflow through Raleigh and BRNC's doors.... Just like SiClik's Royal Navy badges for all FAA aircrew being another way of recruiting... We have (or had) a Lynx away as either a static or displaying as the Black Cats almost every weekend this summer, with as many maintainers and aircrew talking to the public as possible.
I cannot believe this policy as described above - did someone actually think it up to annoy us? It really is a fanastic retention measure :ugh: . Looking at the Busch Heroes site above reminded me of this:
Disney World - Golf Resort - don't see Tussaud's handing over the Alton Tower's Hotel to the NAAFI or SAFFA to run....
jk

How many of those ar$e-licking sycophants in Bliar's so-called government have any sort of military uniform they could wear in public?

Fatty Two Shags in his sailor suit doesn't really count, of course.

One thinks that if that old dear with the handbag was still driving No.10, some faceless bureaucrat would be doing a bit of an Axminster shuffle over this.

I garher that, not only do the lads have to try to change in the lavatories at the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome, but most of the loos are u/s and whatever the latest silly name for MoW/MPBW/DoE is won't fix them as a priority? But that IS only a rumour.....

until about four years ago i used to work at a major north west airport and still keep in contact with one or two of my work mates....

one of them told me that they regularly got/get medi vac flights in from those nice places in the world that our boys and girls are fighting in, and they are almost sworn to secrecy when they are arriving/who is on board etc etc.....

it was the same when i was there! a trooping flight would be parked up at some remote side of the airport and it seemed to me that the coaches bringing/picking them up would almost sneak in like some unwanted disease and off they went to where they were heading!! BUT........................

when someone famous turned up, same corner of airfield, but almost a fanfare as they arrived.... i know for certain that a certain group of charitable soccer players arrived a few weeks back, they were caught on the ramp smoking!!!!!! but i have it on good authority that no one 'important' said anything as they didn't want to upset them....

it sort of brings it back to a post earlier..... the press, and maybe even the public(although there is one or two on here that i will distance from that comment) would rather hear about some pop star/footballer/celebrity's everyday life than someone else who has risked or for that matter lost theirs!!

the society we live in is all wrong, we pamper to the WRONG people, i have noticed in the last 48 hrs the complete lack of moronic idiots walking around draped in the george cross! where have they all gone?? i thought that they were english/british and proud of it!! i would be interested to see how 'patriotic' they really are and issue them with a challenge.... change places with the next poor soul tasked with yet another tour in some god forsaken place, and wear that flag with pride.............................. WHAT NO TAKERS??? TOO SCARED OF LOSING YOUR EASY, BENEFIT FUNDED LIFESTYLE EH?? THOUGH SO!!!

oh well the tabloids must really be in a bind to find space for the next installment of WAGS or which pop star is smoking what, because some soldier has got himself killed, somewhere or other.... but we need the space in the paper!!!

tigs, i hope that all them e-mails have some sort of effect with alton towers etc.... the yanks do put us to shame in some respects......


also i remember talking to a 'hostie' once at the airport that was about to go pick up some squaddies from somewhere.. i asked her if she had a problem with it, ie what flights were best club 18-30 drunken idiots, or sqn/regt x??
her answer was fairly simple.... " i TRY not to bend down too much, as it seems like 200 sex starved sets of eyes are staring at me constantly, but as long as they get a beer or two i would take them over said drunken idiots anyday!!!!"

ok rant over.... or is it????


tigs i see you have a loved one away at the mo? hope she is ok and keeping well! tell her i (and i think that i can talk for others on here) think what she is doing is very commendable, brave and i am in awe at her and her friends!!
tell her that no matter how hard things get, there is ALWAYS people back in britain who would support them no matter what!!!!

regards to all

J6T

J6T
Thank You.

i think that we forget that not all people are in agreement with the papers, the political do gooders and those in this country who hide theirselves away from what is going on around them.....

what winds me up is that our troops are in a sort of catch 22 system! you would of thought that in an 'almost' ideal world it would be a case of... thanks for risking your life out there...here is a few weeks off to catch up on things with your family and friends... don't forget to use your voucher to get the fortnights holiday to somehere you can top up your tan and NOT get shot at... but instead it's a case of.... don't hand your kit back in, you will need it again in six months... oh never mind it was only xmas you missed, but whilst you are waiting can you pop over to..... well you get my drift....

these boys and girls should be treated like hero's when they set foot back in this country...

isn't it amazing how much 'passion' an american commercial for beer can bring out in people???

the poster earlier is correct about the british mentality of kicking the backside out of any sort of discount the military would get!! it's a shame but unfortunately true.... the painted picture of the parachute regiment in the business class lounge has me roaring with laughter... you are right my friend, i think they would behave like gentlemen, until some stuffy businessman told them to take their feet of the chairs and to talk a little quieter.. then the fun would begin..... ring side tickets anyone??????

regards

J6T

This uniform thing is the same at Chillwell for reservists - you're ok walking around a service station in uniform on the way there from Brize, but when you are picked up by unit transport, to be taken straight home, you have to be in civvies, (though must admit I just took off the shirt to get out of the gate) The danger is, out of sight, out of mind and no-one will even think of it as a career. There was someone about a year ago produced GB stickers with a yellow ribbon around containing the caption Support Our Troops - unfortunately didn't catch on.

That was a great ad - made my spine tingle watching it.

their was a video knocking about with a tribute to an american families lost son.... now that did have my goose bumps raised...

can't remember when i last saw the VERY unfortunate sight of the rear of a C-17 being unloaded with 'our' heroes!! maybe it's not happening anymore! but i suppose the world cup AND big brother have been on!!!!!

This must be an RAF/Army reg....In the RN we are positively encouraged to wear rig ashore...almost becomming compulsory

GBZ, it has something to do with potential divs en-route. If not sensitive, maybe AT bod could explain.

Thats because the diversion for MPA is/was Brazil. Apparently they dont like foreigners in uniform wandering round :)

Thanks lads. Now I cast my mind back, past all those beers (year 2000 to present), that was the reason. It may be heresy but DPM never actually felt like a uniform; and on some, it never actually looked like one either!

G B Z

PS.

Just a thought; I wonder if it's the en route diversion aspect that's the driver to this thread? I can imagine a few countries in N. Africa/ Middle East where a UK serviceman might not be a welcome sight. Anybody got a definite on that?

Went to Florida in May this year and took advantage of the Sea World free military entry, saving a whopping $260 {beats 10% at cotswold camping} for a family of five and we even got "Here's to the Hero's" wrist bands but the reception in the Shamu stadium was amazing! we had just got settled in the soak zone when they played the advert with US servicemen in the gulf and one of the staff asked any serving millitary personnel and thier families from any nation, to stand up and receive thanks from the crowd! i was so gob smacked from the crowd clapping and cheering i was unable to stand up! quess we are just not used to being thanked.
Halty

In times gone by, when we had to wear civvies on RAF trooping flights in case of en-route diversion there was a reason. For example, our French 'friends' didn't permit military overflights so AscotXXX masqueraded as a civlian flight. A UK airport and domestic flights etc. don't come anywhere near the unwelcome diversion rule. Its home, its our country and our military. I'm pleased, not to say proud to see servicemen out and about in uniform and I'm sure that the majority of people are too.

In any case, is it actually legal for servicemen to be out and about in disguise? ;)

Hero's day
 

I have also enjoyed free entry in to Seaworld - in San Diego. I thought the short film at the shamu show about their troops was a bit over the top but the reaction afterwards was amazing. The 'Heros' were asked to stand up and got a full on ovation. More of that please!

Yesterday :\

Swinging Monkey hits the nail squarly on the head when he asks 'why are the higher echelons of the services not standing up to this?' So come on 'your airships' tell us why

I agree that the Americans do often go 'over the top' with this patriotism stuff, but I would rarther have that, than what we (don't) have in this country. Why can our Armed Forces NOT be seen in public in uniform? Are the government or those high up so ashamed of them? It is utterly deplorable, and as an ex serviceman I am extremely annoyed and disgusted that it has got to this point now. BEagle is right also, there is NO way the Iron lady (bless her) would have allowed her service men and women to be treated is such a manner.

It never ceases to amaze me to what lengths this government will go to show the world what 'good eggs' they all are, helping those in Africa, debt relief here, more aid there. IMHO its high time we started to look after those a bit closer to home, starting with our armed forces men and women, who provide the cover for the likes of Bliar and that fat deputy of his.

My heartiest best wishes to all our serving (and ex) Forces personnel.

The Winco

Just had a thought, maybe the powers that be dont want us in uniform out in public just in case it offends any of our migratory friends. Would make sense as charity shops were asked to remove Christmas decs for the very same reason.

The relevant bit from RAF Dress Regs is
I don't know why there are 2 sub-para ds and no sub-para e.
And yes, it is sad that I know where the regs are.

The ISK transit
 

Oh to get the chance to go through a civvy airport. On a slightly different but related topic.

Air and ground crews from ISK transiting too and from the lands of sand, get the pleasure of travelling to and from Timmy's home by coach. At the beginning and end of the deployment they have to endure a 12-14 hour bus journey. The reason is not because of the large gathering of service men and women in one place but...........cost! Before the journey commences all concerned have to change into civvies to comply with "the regulations".

The cost of the coaches is many thousands of pounds, but "they" claim it is cheaper because Easy Jet or BA would charge a large amount of excess baggage, and the Service would have to pay for full price tickets to maintain the flexibility in case of delay.

Of course the country values its military.

Shadwell

Fitbin
Dont get me started on that one please:ugh: Its another thing that drives me nuts - I dont Bloody Belieeeve it!

TIGS2, Well done for buying beer for those lads and, although it would probably be wasted on them, a framed copy of Kipling's Tommy for the pub might be an idea. One other area where military personnel in uniform may be refused service is, of course, our respective messes? Makes you think doesn't it? I was refused entry to the Sgt's mess in the Falklands (mid 80's) when I finished work at about 10pm ish and fancied a quick jar before bed. How many other messes would apply a similar ruling today I wonder?

Go for it
 

What security issue could there be for personnel travelling through our own airports in uniform? Is BAA seriously suggesting that if al q'ada knew service personnel were using airports they would become instant targets? Utter hoop.

I'd be more than tempted to disregard this 'security' rule and do it anyway. I defy BAA to 'prosecute' me. They can throw me out if they wish, but my standing in their foyer letting everyone know what the airport's policy towards the UK's service personnel is would be a damn sight more embarrassing for them than me. As for the military regulations - should anyone step forward to enforce this utter b:mad: we would at least be able to pin down who it was that came up with this stupidity in the first place, where it is articulated, who signed off on the ‘regulation’ . . . . . rant, rant, rant :ugh:

And another thing - why aren't we allowed to wear uniform to/in MOD? (don't quote security, the fact that you're entering the building might be a clue that you are connected to the UK's military!)

CAS, CGS, CDS - want to know why 85% of Sqn Ldrs stated they would take their option in the next 5 years? (continuous attitude survey 05) - then read this thread and DO something other than pontificate!

Don't blame the political masters, at least not for this one. It is an own goal by the Army and RAF high paid help. As is often the case, the Navy are ahead of the power curve and actually encourage their servicemen and women to be seen in uniform in public. I bet it does great things for their self-respect and for recruiting.
The security rationale for creeping around like grey mice is frankly b*ll*cks. Even when there was a real IRA threat it was counter productive. When I was serving I hated having to disguise myself as a civvy, totally ineffectually as we all came and went from our place of work in full view, short haircuts, lean and mean appearance (I was much younger then!) and carrying a military duffle bag died red or blue or whatever. Didn't do much for our morale and self esteem but must have been great for the opposition to see they had us on the run. We are British soldiers. We should flaunt it proudly.

Ill second that, I was Disgusted and apallled certainly by the BBC news, the England captains resignation gets seven minutes, two squaddies are killed and the BBC cover it with two minutes of coverage (And yes I did time it). IT makes me sick. I did lodge an offical complaint with the Beeb and Im awaiting my reply. Footballs a game, the war is peoples familes, makes me feel like HM forces are a worthwhile job. I personally am so disillusioned now the govt,media and worst of all the public do not care what happens to the forces, and it saddens me.

FCP
I agree fully with what you say. Crazy idea but if these overpaid bags of wind that pass as footballers took a huge pay cut down to something sensible (say 50K a year for doing your hobby), the rest of the money could be shovelled into the defence budget. That ought to buy our boys and girls some of the much needed kit required to do their job, which happens to be done for a far smaller wage than the footie freaks get.:ugh:

i was told...
 

that the reason we have to carry civilian clothing is because our Strat AT flies (sometimes) via the civilian airports in the Middle East, before going back to Blighty - and you could remain in compound (in uniform), or go into town (in civilian attire) - given those options I think bringing some civvies is worth it, as a Crab Air Stalag 18 compound is no fun on return from SANDGHANSITAN!
On the subject of wearing uniform in the UK civil airports, it is worth remembering that active terrorist cells collate information on us military types, so advertising yourself might not be the cleverest move. Shame I know, but the fact remains bad guys want to do bad stuff to us and ours.

I don't think the terrible-ist's really give a monkeys who they hit. If they were fussy, the London bombings wouldn't have happened. They won't discriminate, but will keep going till they think it's all finished, and if that means civillians buying the big one to achieve the goal then that's what they'll do. Ba:mad: :mad: :mad: rds.

Personally if I was a baddy, I would wait outside a military establishment rather than sit in an airport just in case a serviceman happened to go by in uniform.

I think it is a huge shame we don't wear it in public a bit more, was fairly downcast when I stopped to help a lady change a wheel and she thought I was a RAC man in my No 2s....

however comma
 

you're not a bad guy so you have balls. they won't sit outside the military base as it is considered a hard target, taking us (or civilians) in a civil airport is considered a soft target, making it easier for them to get their ration of virgins in the next life (or so they think).

Maybe thats the problem. Should we bin our uniform and dress like the RAC, or is the government embarrassed of those people too?

Deskpushinshiney

If you think you are more at risk going through UK airports in Uniform, to travelling around 'down town' in certain Middle Eastern countrys in Civvies then think again. Frankly, having survived a tour on Ops in Iraq or Afghanistan, i would much rather stay in the compound whilst waiting the next flight, and ensure i got home safely to my family.

We are misinterpreting the threat, and allowing the terrorist to do what they want i.e surpress our lifestyle. Airports are soft targets you say - or are they??. They haven't attacked one yet. An airport is actually a 'harder target than a military base in many respects, look how many armed coppers are on duty at any one time! Far more than at any military base. If a terrorist were going to attack an airport, they will attack one, regardsless of whos walking through in whatever attire. But they tend not to because they are full of armed police. Furthermore, if i were waiting to attack, the site of 20-100 military uniformed guys coming through the airport would scare me s*****ss. Not all terrorists are suicide bombers. Just like the IRA they plan with precision and if they dont have a reliable escape plan they are unlikely to do the job, because they want to live.

It's no wonder the government can axe the armed forces, with sweeping redundencies and cutbacks with little or no response from Joe Public, because Joe Public doesn't know we exist apart from Two minutes a day on the news. Try cutting 10, 000 jobs from Ford or Honda and see how much that hits the papers. The government don't want anything that will raise our profile/popularity with the public, because it would make life to difficult for them when they try to axe us.

Get the uniforms on!

Tigs

Hoorah, too right matey.

We need to make people proud to wear their uniforms, proud of doing something different for a living, proud of the immense commitment every 17/18 year old is making when they join up and learn to use a rifle.

Pride is difficult for many when they have seen so many changes, but the guys and girls on the ground on ops are just the same as those that have gone before, and recent events have shown us that people still die on ops as they have done since combat was invented. While we remain in the Services we should remain proud of what we are and what we do, we should wear our uniforms wherever we can and not hide away.

That is difficult for a generation that has been told to hide away because of the IRA threat and one that keeps being told that the overtly proud American way is well over the top and not the way it should be done. But that is tosh and we must try to grow proud of who we are and what we do.

Personally, whenever I feel self-conscious walking down the high street, I just think to myself about all the places I have been that they will never go; all the experiences I have shared that they cannot; all the friends I have, the relationships they will never understand;and the things I have seen that they should be grateful they will never have to see because I am there. And I am proud.

Really sorry to all those that are throwing up, but I really do not see what is wrong with wanting to feel like that about my job. If Joe Public doesn't like it, stuff him.

Oh, and I like my hat!

... and broadening the scope a little bit - how about having everyone who works in MOD / Abbey Wood etc wear uniform. If nothing else it would help differentiate between the military and the civil servants (although the long hair and open toed sandals of the later may be a give away). Irritates me to see our Lords and Masters being interviewed in their best M&S suits!

South Bound
I agree. If there is one thing in common that EVERY serviceman has, the one thing that binds them together in doing a job that takes you away from home, isn't particularly well paid considering you are put in harms way, demands total loyalty and comittment from you 24/7, and demands that under the most difficult, adverse conditions you perform your job selflessley to the absolute best of your ability it is PRIDE - PROFESSIONAL PRIDE. Its the thing that gives a young soldier the courage to die trying to save his mates or downed crew (even more recently trying to save the bodies of downed crew). In the UK like it or not it is knowing we took the Queens Shilling, I am sure the US armed forces have a similar concept.

When we all graduated from our training schools, we all stood on parade in uniform and felt as proud as you ever have done in your life (do you all remember that feeling? it was the best). I now feel just as proud of the young guys who are going into harms way far earlier in their career than i ever did in a cold war scenario. Is it two much to ask that as a nation, we recognise the achievments and sacrifice of these people.

Remember the sacrifice is often great, not only death and injury, but for many, more routinely, the fact that so much time away from home invariabley leads to relationship and family problems. I, like many of my peer group, sweated blood and tears for my uniform, and it cost me my family. The pressure on Spouses of , girlfriends and boyfriends of, is immense. To be told that i must sneak in and out of airports, full of the people we are trying to save is outrageous. If you are a member of 22 Reg or the SBS, then fair enough, but the majority of us should be able to fly our flag for the rest of those who cannot. Still, in a country where we consider it antagonistic to fly our own national flags, what hope do we have. Try telling a US marine to take down the flag he flys in his front garden and he will likely kill you with his bare hands.

To CDS and CAS etc. We accept that the government will force cuts upon you, but please do not let them take away what we are about, our pride, our loyalty our sense of belonging. Dont let them make us feel like second class citizens for protecting our country, because i know that all of our people may not be angels (Wars are not one by angels), but they are all first class citizens. You gentlemen of all people can tell the Defense Secretary to shove it, when he/they suggest we must go around in civilian attire.

:D

Well said

Quick (and inflamatory) question:

If MOB Main Building has the function of the nation's highest military HQ, why don't the military officers who work there wear uniform like those who work in the subordinate military HQs?;)

uniform in public..
 

..whilst I appreciate the sentiment, you're living in dream land if you think we can safely wear our uniform in public.

DPSA

you know, in London and some of the big cities you are probably right and that is very very sad. What a crap country we live in where the very people that protect a population's freedom of speech/religion/political extremes are not safe to wear ones work clothes out of work.

Think I shall go somewhere else where I am wanted.