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-   -   Future Carrier (Including Costs) (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/221116-future-carrier-including-costs.html)

ORAC 25th Feb 2024 10:50

HMS Damond embarking replacement Sea Viper missiles in Gibraltar this morning ahead of returning to the Red Sea soon.

Gibraltar once again demonstrating its value as a forward support base.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....96b5c629ca.png
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Asturias56 25th Feb 2024 21:03

Forward Supply Base?

Its 3600 km from the nearest point on the Red Sea - AND you have to go through a canal........

Helsinki or Lagos are closer..................

rattman 25th Feb 2024 22:29


Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 11603927)
Forward Supply Base?

You mean like Oman. Probably politics involved or its easier to do it in gibralter and not even have to ask permission

GeeRam 26th Feb 2024 07:40


Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 11603927)
Forward Supply Base?

Its 3600 km from the nearest point on the Red Sea - AND you have to go through a canal........

Helsinki or Lagos are closer..................

Blimey, Navigation not your strong point then......:E

I make it about 11,000km from Red Sea area to Helsinki by ship.....and that invloves passing Gib on the way.

:ugh:

Asturias56 26th Feb 2024 07:57


Originally Posted by GeeRam (Post 11604082)
Blimey, Navigation not your strong point then......:E

I make it about 11,000km from Red Sea area to Helsinki by ship.....and that invloves passing Gib on the way.

:ugh:

Yes - overexcited - but its still a hell of a long way for a forward base

Bengo 26th Feb 2024 09:18


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 11603966)
You mean like Oman. Probably politics involved or its easier to do it in gibralter and not even have to ask permission

Gib has the necessary magazines etc. to hold a stock of ordnance. I would be surprised if UK bases in Oman or Bahrain do.

N

GeeRam 26th Feb 2024 10:49


Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 11604098)
Yes - overexcited - but its still a hell of a long way for a forward base

Its all we've got since being ousted from Malta half a century ago by Mintoff.




ORAC 27th Feb 2024 12:52

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/mod-...or-mothballed/

MOD confirm assault ships not to be ‘scrapped or mothballed’

Despite previous speculation that HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark could be scrapped or mothballed, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed they’ll remain ins ervice.The information came to light in response to a Written Parliamentary Question.

Julian Lewis Chair, Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament, asked:

“To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, with reference to his oral reply of 19 February 2024 to the Rt hon Member for New Forest East on HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark, Official Report, column 458, whether his assurance that one of those ships will always be being made ready to sail means that neither will be mothballed.”

James Cartlidge, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, responded:

“I can confirm that neither HMS ALBION nor HMS BULWARK will be scrapped or mothballed before their planned out of service dates in 2033 and 2034 respectively. As has been the case since 2010, one Landing Platform Dock ship will be held in extended readiness such that she will be capable of being regenerated if we have strategic notice that she will be needed.

As such, HMS ALBION will take HMS BULWARK’s place in extended readiness. While you would not expect me to reveal the fine detail of readiness forecasts for security reasons, I can confirm HMS BULWARK will be regenerated from extended readiness and maintained so that she can be ready to deliver defence outputs if required.”

Biggus 27th Feb 2024 12:59

So what's the difference, if any, between "extended readiness" and "mothballed" - is it just a case of semantics?

pr00ne 27th Feb 2024 13:04


Originally Posted by Biggus (Post 11604937)
So what's the difference, if any, between "extended readiness" and "mothballed" - is it just a case of semantics?

Small permanent crew allocated, machinery and systems maintained, remaining crew identified and allocated if needed to generate.

Whereas mothballed is exactly that, mothballed!

A huge difference.

Biggus 27th Feb 2024 13:18

Thank you....

However, I expect the "small permanent crew" allocated will be VERY small, and the people identified to bring it back to fully crewed will no doubt already be doing vital jobs in a service that is "underpersonned"...

ORAC 28th Feb 2024 08:39

Must have run out of pianos…..

​​​​​​​NEW: Aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy (CVN-79) is catapulting objects into the James River in Virginia to test its plane launching capabilities.

The footage was recently released by Huntington Ingalls Industries (HII), a ship building company.

The Kennedy features an electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) which makes it just the 2nd US aircraft carrier to have this advanced system.

The vehicles it launched in testing reached speeds of 150mph and experts estimate it will be able to launch jets at speeds of 240mph.

The Kennedy was launched in 2019 and has a price tag of $11.3 billion.

Bengo 28th Feb 2024 12:54


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11605451)
Must have run out of pianos…..



NEW: Aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy (CVN-79) is catapulting objects into the James River in Virginia to test its plane launching capabilities.

The footage was recently released by Huntington Ingalls Industries (HII), a ship building company.

The Kennedy features an electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) which makes it just the 2nd US aircraft carrier to have this advanced system.

The vehicles it launched in testing reached speeds of 150mph and experts estimate it will be able to launch jets at speeds of 240mph.

The Kennedy was launched in 2019 and has a price tag of $11.3 billion.


I wonder if the EMALS test preparations included the traditional main broadcast seeking volunteers to be aircraft catapult test weight coxswains?

​​​​​​​N

idle bystander 29th Feb 2024 07:48

Ah, the much loved deadload trials. I remember an item in Ark Royal's daily orders "Deadload driver volunteers wanted; applicants should be in possession of an Admiralty driving licence, and be good swimmers." Quite a few baby Jacks signed up.

Davef68 29th Feb 2024 10:22


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11605451)
Must have run out of pianos…..

Or old aeroplanes! I remember seeing a photo of a Sea Hornet being tested from I think Ark Royal

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...Ccpgw&usqp=CAU

ORAC 29th Feb 2024 11:42

Sad news, Aircraft carrier C551 'Giuseppe Garibaldi' from the 1st of October 2024, will be taken out of service to be disarmed.

It has been serving Italy since the 1980's and took part in Operation Enduring Freedom and also was present during the conflicts in Libya and Kosovo.

It is possibile that it may still have a use after being disarmed. There are plans for it to be converted into a naval satellite launch platform under the SIMONA program.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....868248de03.png

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6cc956b647.png
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ORAC 29th Feb 2024 11:55

Russian Naval Nuclear Doctrine
 
BREAKING NEWS! A big story by @maxseddon and @xtophercook for the @FT on leaked Russian documents, including a revealing briefing on Russia's naval non-strategic nuclear weapons (and conventional prompt strike) doctrine. Buckle up, this is a big one.

https://www.ft.com/content/f18e6e1f-...5-50a730b306b7

Four key takeaways for you:

1) Russian doctrine for the use of non-strategic nuclear weapons by the Russian Navy includes a much lower threshold for nuclear use than previously thought, and far lower than the Kremlin has claimed in the years since the end of the Cold War.

2) Russian non-strategic nuclear weapons remain a part of the surface fleet (inc. missiles, bombs, torpedoes, depth charges, all with hot-swappable conventional and nuclear warheads), despite promising to remove them in the Presidential Nuclear Initiatives.

3) Russia has done extensive work to target with nuclear and conventioanl precision strike civilian and military infrastructure in Japan, and at least some theoretical targeting against targets in South Korea, Iran, Azerbaijan, North Korea, and even China.

4) Russia's naval nuclear doctrine is consistent with its very real shortcomings and precarious position compared to the US Navy, therefore integrating nuclear planning at lower levels, giving commanders wide targeting flexibility after initial nuclear use.

No surprises on conventional precision strike - consistent with work by Dave Johnson and others (e.g., @KofmanMichael) on SODCIT - strategic operations to destroy critical infrastructure targets. Also consistent with the idea of civilian targeting.

If you’d like more on Russian non strategic nuclear weapons doctrine, I just published this report. I wish I’d seen these materials before I wrote it, certainly, but I think my conclusions are consistent with the findings by @maxseddon and @xtophercook

https://www.iiss.org/research-paper/...clear-weapons/

https://www.twz.com/nuclear/russias-...-in-new-report


Russia’s Low Threshold For Nuclear Weapons Use Detailed In New Report

According to a report based on leaked documents, the loss of just three cruisers could trigger a nuclear reprisal, but questions remain.

SpazSinbad 29th Feb 2024 12:45


Originally Posted by Davef68 (Post 11606180)
Or old aeroplanes! I remember seeing a photo of a Sea Hornet being tested from I think Ark Royal

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...Ccpgw&usqp=CAU

SEA HORNET: https://www.fighterworld.com.au/uploads/sea_hornet.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c277487f95.jpg

NutLoose 29th Feb 2024 13:56

I think it was might be a firefly, incidentally they only removed the outer wings after one launch where the aircraft flew in a giant circle and came back towards the carrier causing a lot of ring puckering on board.

SLXOwft 29th Feb 2024 15:37


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11606224)
Sad news, Aircraft carrier C551 'Giuseppe Garibaldi' from the 1st of October 2024, will be taken out of service to be disarmed.

It has been serving Italy since the 1980's and took part in Operation Enduring Freedom and also was present during the conflicts in Libya and Kosovo.

It is possibile that it may still have a use after being disarmed. There are plans for it to be converted into a naval satellite launch platform under the SIMONA program.

​​​​​​

However, there should be (much of) a capability cap as AFAIK her replacement the LHD Trieste is still due to finally enter service in the first half of this year.


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