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RAF Scampton closing before it opens?
ladies & gents,
a recent rumour from a 'rather senior' source has indicated that due to unforseen (& foreseen) financial implications RAF/CRC Scampton may be closing although the CRC is not even operational yet and wouldn't be until early 2006. The rumour gets more interesting when it is implied that we may in fact be going to RAF Leeming instead along with TCW. Anyone else heard anything more on this? |
Trolling, trolling, trolling.....
If you're really where your profile implies you'll have plenty of contacts, including STH, who have either briefed you in one of the many meetings held recently or will be willing to over the phone. You therefore don't need to be asking silly questions like this here.
If you are journo scum - nice try but not good enough. |
no this is something everyone has heard out in theatre which was in fact briefed on mass to our lads during a question & answer session with a senior officer.. as for being from northumberland.. people can live in northumberland without working there.
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CRC Scampton WILL be standing up on schedule. That is a given.
The financial problems concern the fact that de-asbestosing the buildings and reparing the infrastructure is likely to cost more than was initially estimated. As a consequence a new feasibility study has been mounted with a view to comparing the cost of moving the ASSUs to alternative units with irreducible spare capacity (such as Leeming post-F3), and the cost of moving them to Scampton. NO decision has yet been made, and as a consequence units continue to plan for a move to Scampton. |
'Irreducible Spare Capacity'. You should be banned for using such crap meaningless managerspeak on this forum.
This rumour is just that, a rumour. Its about the 20th I've heard this year. As we speak, nothing has changed and it is not good to keep spreading these types of rumours when people are in the process of moving/worrying about schools etc. Much more fun to talk about the mating habits of female FCs. |
The mating habits of female FCs should probably find a separate thread... if at all!
Irreducible spare capacity is pretty plain English in my opinion. It means, "unused (spare) capacity that cannot be disposed of (irreducible)". I believe in being concise. Those who've seen my posts before will know I don't respond well to management speak or PC bolleaux. The information I have provided above was given to me and 150 others at a briefing last month. No decision has been made, but someone had the sense to look at the costings and propose a feasibility study. To add my personal slant, I don't really think that setting up RAF Scampton as a "hub" is really 100% necessary. The CRC will stand up because it is already built and ready to go. The rest of the stn needs to be repaired, repainted, and reorganised. Buildings need vast quantities of asbestos to be stripped out. The sewers, as I understand it, are in poor repair. The stn needs to be set up for modern computer ops. English Heritage are (wrongly) poking their noses in and not allowing this country's military to go about its business efficiently. The roads need improving. The electrical and water supplies will probably need to be improved and backed up. SHQ's upper floor is uninhabitable, as are many of the accommodation blocks, which need to be brought up to modern standards. The messing facilities will need to be improved and expanded drastically; at the moment the Combined Mess can't cater for the personnel already stationed at Scampton, hence the imminent spillover to RAF Kirton-in-Lyndesy. The Sgts' Mess is boarded up and will cost God knows how much to run up again. The Officers' Mess alone is likely to cost millions to stand up again. I would like RAF Scampton to stand up as a MOB, honestly. I'm all for the RAF expanding; I think we need to! But for God's sake, look at this logically. When the F3 fleet is withdrawn, Leeming - an operational station - loses its main role. Why not use its irreducible spare capacity (or "previously operationally capable facilities with no current role") to accommodate the ASSUs? Not all cost-cutting is hostile, some of it can actually save us the expense of spending millions when it isn't necessary. Which is all desperately unfortunate for families, and I think we can all appreciate what a hard time people are having at the moment. It's a pain, but I'm sure things will settle down when the decision is made. I hope so, at any rate. |
"irreducable spare capacity" - used to call it a waste of space in my day.
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Seems to me that if the station had been on "Care and Maintenance" in the first place, the imminent need to replace every life support system on the camp wouldn't be there. Let the place go, and yes, everything needs renewing.
Time and time again, the MOD makes such an arse of these things. Being an ex-squaddie with the benefit of RAF exposure, I would have to say that the MOD have been short sighted over the years, except in RAFG. Bruggen and Gutersloh now Army barracks. Good. Runways still there if needed. Hangars make great garages. But in UK, we are apparently about to close Coltishall and St Mawgan, while reopening Scampton. Why? Even if the radar heads etc are on the East coast, at 300,000,000 metres per second, it doesn't take very long to get a radar picture in Cornwall. Or Akrotiri for that matter. Why must we take these ideal military establishments, and dispose of them? Little Rissington Business Park my arse. It's an airfield in the Cotwolds. Like Kemble. Like South Cerney. Like Hullavington. Theyre all national assets, but how many of them are we using properly, while retaining ****holes like Blandford Camp and Bulford. Grrr. Just glad I don't pay my tax there any more. GWB can squander it, but at least they have the Base Realignment and Closure Commission to look at things half sensibly. Rant over. Sorry for you all. |
Tablet,
You are entirely correct in your summing up of the current situation, but surely the question should be How the f*^% have the RAF managed to balls up the situation (at Scampton) so badly? There have been so many studies into the future requirements for the RAF, it has cost the MOD £M's, but unfortunately these individual studies have not been coordinated, so one study recommends one thing, and someone else recommends entirely the opposite. It is only just now that these opposing recommendations are coming to light. Yes the CRC will open on time early next year, but the rest of Scampton looks unlikely to happen, and last I heard, Leeming was looking a favorite. Don't put any money on it though, because one thing is for sure, the RAF will not be spending any money more than necessary, the cheapest option is, unfortunately, the best, as far as they are concerned. |
Quote; "the RAF will not be spending any money more than necessary, the cheapest option is, unfortunately, the best, as far as they are concerned."
FINNINGLEY: Millions on new nav school, new MT, even a new church, and what? Close it. The RAF will rebuild Scampton and then close it anyway. Leeming will rot, because to maintain, re-role the station is far too logical for this mans air force. PS Dont know where that hyperlink came from!!!!!!!!! |
No, no, no, no! You don“t understand how it works. They“ll refurbish the Messes, accommodation and SHQ; lay new drains; renew the roads; put in a new water supply.
Then, they“ll close the place and move everyone to Leeming. It“s tradition... :} |
Rest assured that build and bust is not just an RAF custom(?). Look at Portland. On the other hand please, please don't look at all the new builds at Yeovilton and Culdrose!!
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6Z3 - OK then, 'nasty little habit' rather than custom or tradition!
If it really would cost a fortune to refurbish Sunny Scampton (and what an arse decision it was to put the place on so-called care and maintenance and let it rot so badly), then why not indeed KEEP COLTISHALL OPEN. It even has an illustrious history in the radar defence of the UK as well as being the last RAF aerodrome left which was operational in the Battle of Britain. Or is it just that the MoD beancounters are salivating in frenzy at the thought of the money they think they could get for the place if they flogged it off to some Naarfaalk house builder? |
It even has an illustrious history in the radar defence of the UK as well as being the last RAF aerdrome left which was operational in the Battle of Britain. Order of battle: http://www.battleofbritain.net/northolt.gif |
oops!
You're right, of course, I should have said 'fighter aerodrome'! Ruislip International is indeed still open; I guess it's too close to London to be of interest to Ryanair though.....:E |
last 'operational' RAF station then, as London (Northolt) is just a Civil Airport with uniformed staff.
How about re-opening Neat if you want to save CS? Edited to say; beaten by BEags - oh the shame! |
Gutersloh went the same way...
Spend millions on a new gym, new dispersal area/MT sect at 230Sqn, various other bits and hey presto, close it !! Well hand it to the Army, similar thing.... Fact now is the locals are complaining about the lack of the RAF in Gutersloh, why ?? because there is now more flying from the airfield than there was when the RAF were there.....!!! Surprised Waddo is still open with all the new builds over the years.... I hope the bean counters keep up such a good job, because at least my job will be safe, delivering all the new building supplies to places i was posted too !!! |
last 'operational' RAF station then, as London (Northolt) is just a Civil Airport with uniformed staff. You're right, of course, I should have said 'fighter aerodrome'! Now whether you class Harriers and Jags as 'fighters' is conjecture I suppose :p |
Getting back to the original argument.
I agree the CRC will stand up and everything else will go to the four winds. What about the School of Fighter Control? Still scheduled to move by 2010. The whole thing is, IMHO, a farce. We have, for the first time in decades, got a more or less purpose built environment at Boulmer which is STILL being finished off and we are closing it to go back into 2nd world war accom. Its crass, sends the wrong message and is causing a great deal of irritation around the houses. This has been an ill thought out venture from the start. Costs are prohibitve at the moment and the end state will be far removed from the original intention. Keep Boulmer as the 24 hour CRC, keep the SFC and leave Scampton as the fallback/day working outfit. The other really annoying aspect is that we are having to pull people back off posts to man both CRCs. This means losing (possibly) some NATO and Joint type posts which, in this day and age, is a step backward. The FC Branch has evolved extremely well over the last 5 years and our Lords and Masters need to be very careful about wrong footing that continued progress. AMEN!! Tablet: At least you did not say 'Over-arching'. Plain English??? BAHH!! |
PPRuNe Radar I stand corrected
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Wyler,
to suggest that nothing has formally changed is incorrect... All A6 postings, not associated with the CRC are on hold, personnel effected by this have been told by signal, no big secret but certainly a fact. Scampton is dead and buried, I'm sure it's just a matter of getting the xmas holiday out of the way before they announce it. If you are in a blue suit then it won't be hard for you to get hold of the difference in costings for getting Scampton up & keeping Leeming open. As for the SFC being purpose built, I visited your school for a brief recently and sat in a porta cabin for the day! Why not Leeming or, if the FC branch really is on the up, get yourselves into Conningsby, soon to be the home of the Air Defenders. |
The portakabins at SFC are now vanishing (thank God!)
Wyler, spot on! As to management speak.... grrr.... take a few buzzwords and string them together, and you're practically an Air Officer! "Pertaining to the newly-incorporated network-enabled capability doctrine, certain force elements at readiness can be generated, underpinning the overarching architecture of future C4I ops in the real-time digital battlespace, leading to a real capability advantage and directly augmenting standing computuerised elements of the overall force." Phew! Bring me a pair of thick rank slides and a PSO at once! |
Lads and Lasses,
Imagine my surprise when I got a few comments about starting this thread!!! I AM based in Northumberland, I AM a female fighter controller(and im not even commenting on mating habits) and I AM in theatre...however there is more than one member of the Fighter Controller BRANCH in theatre...and I'm not well paid enough to comment.:p *rushing now to change my ID* lol Polo :ok: PS Hello to all at Boulmer I hear its warmer here at the moment?!?:E |
schizophrenia
Polo,
Imagine my surprise when I got a few comments about starting this thread!!! sw |
Aggggh, you've blown her cover - don't tell them your name Pike....
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however there is more than one member of the Fighter Controller BRANCH in theatre PMSL.....been into Port Stanley yet ;) |
SW,
The reason I commented is that I make very few posts on here, and it amused me that people assumed it was me. Sadly not...lol And I dont dare go read the female controllers thread.... F n F No Im working far to hard to have any time off :p Maple...still dashing to change ID :E Polo:ok: |
Ah, I'm with you. Fighter Controllers must be known as Mints, so it stands to reason that female ones must called Polomints...
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Brit 55.
Why would we want to move to CY?? Its the home of SOME Air Defenders. In this day and age I fail to see the significance of colocating with one element. We also work with the Navy, so maybe we should move into Portsmouth! I guess its the old chestnut about being colocated with the FJ aircrew to improve Contoller capability etc etc. Some mileage in that BUT, sorry, despite our crappy Branch name, controlling Fighter aircraft is a very small part of our job. Command and Control in Joint Battlespace will not IMHO, be enhanced solely by having some Fighter Controllers parked next to CY Ops. Yes I know thats a very simplistic view and there is benefit to be had by closer links, but that is only one small part of a much bigger picture. Point taken about the A6 posts and I too am expecting several 'announcements' early in the New Year! Tablet Nice One! A complete paragraph of random b*****ks. Rank slides in the post! |
I don't envy anyone looking forward to a tour in the CRC with no base around it? I thought Scampton was to be parenting Kirkton? What about FQs etc?
As to English Heritage....any semi-competent estates officer should have seen that one coming! The issue of listed buildings is enshrined in statute and has been for some time...there's even a register. |
To me it would have been logical to move it all to Colt given thats its near the remote sites of Neatishead and Trimingham and therefore cost effective, although being an outsider I don't know whats planned for both in the near future.
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The amount of money spent on the School at Boulmer there is not a chance in hell it will be moving by 2030 let alone 2010!
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Wyler,
fair point about the extent of your Branches area of expertise. I only really get to talk to your WCs after they have talked us to death over the radio in OTAE! I was under the impression that they were some sort of god like people and that the 'lesser people' at CRCs simply made tea ;) ChrisMcQuaker, since when has the MoD looked at previous financial spending before turning 180 and doing something completely different?!? |
Brit 55
God Like?? Never!! Gobby, definitely! My personal prediction ref Scampton/Boulmer CRC Scamptom will stand up early 06. CRC Boulmer will remain open TFN. Will possibly move to another location in the distant future depending on other NATO type things. SFC will remain until such time as there is a pot of gold to fund a rebuild...when?....until the 12th of never.. There will be no back tracking on the closure of Boulmer, more likely a 'delay' and review followed by a delay and review....and so on. |
Sir Topham Hat
Just give in, you know you want me! |
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Well, thats buggerd that plan then!
Will the CRC personnel have to come to work in WW2 dress? |
I hope and pray that RAF Scampton is saved because it is a very famous Bomber Command station, perhaps the most famous. I had a family member there with 57 Squadron on Lancasters when 617 Squadron were preparing for the Dams operation. I stayed in the Officers Mess just prior to its closure and wandered around the airfield taking photographs (with permission) and the history of it oozed throught the ground, through my feet and into my very soul. I was truly walking in the footsteps of heroes and it was a very humbling experience. I often go up to Lincolnshire to visit the old Bomber Command bases and I always end up at Scampton at dusk and try to imagine what it was like in those dark days. I am a civilian and I know that what I have just written is unfair on serving RAF personnel and their rightful concerns about allowances, accomodation, postings, etc, but I feel that concerns about budgets, money, allowances, should not be allowed to dismember this "hallowed ground". God! how I hate the 21st Century and the tyranny of accountants.
Tony Fallows Hampshire |
I sympathise with your feelings Tony. Scampton will survive IMHO. It may not be the once thriving and bustling station it once was but there will be life there. Even in the worst case, the history will be preserved and some of the problems being faced now are for that very reason.
I agree about the accountants. I bet Guy Gibson did not have to fight with Civil Servants every day just to get the basics. |
Tablet
Your 2nd post said it all - a concise and detailed report The place is a wreck and beyond economical and practical recovery for the taxpayer Sell it off and hit the developers for a windfall tax when they apply to build homes at rip-off prices What's the problem? Nostalgia? Do English heritage wish to retain run down buildings full of asbestos to remind our yoof of today (who have no interest) of the good old days just after the war ? Don't get me wrong - I have done 42 years - 32 years flying - and have been to many 1928 format stns Having dined, slept, and seen all the history in these messes, it's not difficult to imagine how lovely those times were - in my younger days, I made a point of going for a run around the perri track before dinner - then you saw the history of things that had long disappeared However, this is 2005 - a very small, enthusiastic bunch of people are involved in this preservation process - they must eventually wake up and smell the coffee Can you expect to pay for, or run, an estate, that's not even breaking even, let alone giving value for money ? |
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