This might sound a bit sycophantic, but I think the Reds are tops. They may have been a bit full of themselves in the past (I remember one introducing himself as Red 4, in the Mess!), but I think that those days have gone and there are some good guys in the team.

Keep it up!

:ok:

kipper

Well I never MB9G or whatever your name is:
The true sound of freedom is
"Why don't you go down to the pub tonight with your mates"
ended with
"I hear the Reds will be flying over the Lord Brabazon at ANO minimum tonight"

Now that is the true sound of freedom. As for all this; "it's safer at low level than it is in class A at FL280" what a load of cod's.

I'm going to complain to president Blair about the money that these blokes in red boiler suits waste. Red is a non PC colour anyway, that unduly upsets Bulls when flying at low level. So fly high save fuel and think of the bulls.
Thank you

Maybe they fly at low level so that people can see them. Otherwise, what would be the point in having your Number 1 PR machine flying at FL nosebleed.

Nope, keep them low level and then people can see them as they fly around the country.

"project the image of the jet travelling towards the viewer at extreme speed, the aircraft would appear to be red due to the doppler shift."

I'm sorry to say that this would again make the the 'Blue Arrows' as the doppler shift would be to the blue end of the spectrum as the wavelength of the light is shortened with the relatavistic closing velocity of the objects.

Having said all that, it is a brilliant explanation to why the Rads seem to be at almost every air event at the same time.

FEBA, spoken like a true Blue Tory from Oxbridge :O

You imagine that Labour would back a different colour for the Reds. :=





I am joking if course

Surely if they flew higher, more people would see them? :rolleyes:

The Reds do provide entertainment and more importantly, inspiration to those who have dreams of becoming well trained aviators in the military. Many of todays best RAF personnel (not just pilots) first became interested in such a career after witnessing the RAFAT do their thing with such expertise.

Also, remember that these guys have buckets of experience in other forms of flying, much of it operational FJ, and have proven themselves in the past. Simply put - they are very good at what they do. If the guys get pride out of their new job - then good on them, I think they deserve it. They work many more weekends than a majority of other RAF employees. I simply find it wierd that they get such a bad rap from others in the military.

Why complain about them flying at low level whilst en-route to another display? It's all about exposure, and bang-for-the-buck. They're just making the most of their assets.

Agreed, in the air they are a fine and inspirational example to all. Its just such a pity that they are such t@ssers in the bar/ at the airshow:E

for ten million a year....

Finally get that Vulcan airborne. A more impressive sight at an airshow you will not see.

A hawk solo, or even 2 ship display at EVERY two-bit airshow.

rebuild a mossie and put it on the BBMF

return a Javelin to flying condition

return a Phantom toflying condition

return a UK lightning to flying condition

have a 2 ship typhoon display team.

........any more takers?

Totally agree STANDTO. The funds used to finance the team could be put to better use. There will always be those that say that the Arrows are British ambassadors, good advertising for recruitment etc etc.............but the display and the aircraft are really outdated. Now a display team of Spitfires........oh yeah!!!

I love the Reds but for ten million a year....

What about refurbish every piece of singly/married peeps accomodation:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

for ten million a year....

Well I suppose you could run the team for 20,000 years for the price of GWII, though in fairness you'd have to do a currency conversion.

They are a total waste of time space and oxygen as far as I am concerned ..

I was posted to CFS Flight Planning at Scampton in 92/93 and had to go in on a Sunday around 2.30 to check our Notam board for hazards if the reds were transitting back from a display .. I would have to check the return route and note any hazards around their track .. one of the pilots would then phone me and I would give him the gen .. half the time they wouldnt phone.

And I just loved it when I used to get home to find they had used the smoke in one of their slots and the wifes washing stunk of diesel !! .. made my life so much fun !!

Standing joke at Scampton at the time :

"Whats the difference between a Reds Hawk and a pair of boxers ??" .. you can only get one d**k in a pair of boxers !!

.. Not meant as a slur against the guys who fly the green and grey buisness end of the Air Force ..

Nothing against the men in red quickfit fitter suits doing the stuff infront of an audience, but,

1) It's not an efficient way of transiting from base to the display at LL
2) It's more dangerous at LL than in controlled airspace (by the way when they transit to N America do they do it at LL, NO)
3) It annoys some and therefor produces the complete opposite of the desired effect.

So; red men, remember you don't own the skies, you share it with the rest of us. Quit b%ggering around/ showing off at low level, be safe, save gas, fly high.
Thank you

Support your local Red Arrow.
 

I'm a bit dissapointed that there aren't more people on this forum prepared to defend the boys in red. I for one think they do an excellent job. Having met the team a few times and knowing guys who are about to join I can assure you they are a decent bunch.
Leads me to wonder if Tourist has ever actually met and talked to them or if he is just jumping on someone elses bandwagon.
Lastly, I can't believe I'm about to do this but I must agree with vecvec that the simple reason they are at low level is for exposure. If they were up higher they would probably not get noticed as much and wouldn't seem quite so spectacular.
Yes it may be safer up high but then only those people paying for an airshow would get to see them. I think they are probably responsible for an awful lot of RAF applications over the years so lets stop bitching shall we.
BV

Damn right Bob. All these clowns who slag off the Reds because it's "cool" should listen to themselves sometimes.
FEBA. Obviously they don't transit to the States at LL, I think they might run into a bit of a fuel snag after about an hour.
:E
Another reason they fly at LL when transiting is to "drop in" on peoples weddings etc. when they can. You can phone up and request flybys from them, people do it every day, and if they can make it, they will. What better PR do we get in the RAF these days? Those crappy adverts on TV? Mmmmm, they sure would encourage me to sign up:yuk:
To suggest they are (as you so eloquently put it) "b%ggering around/ showing off at low level" is an insult to the dedication and professionalism of the team.

Why is it always the wannabes/can't do's that moan and slag off those that have success?

They are suposed to be showing off. That's what they're for.

Mike W

Never before has there been such a strong smell of sour grapes! :rolleyes:

casper
To suggest that the RED Arrows transiting policy be reviewed is not an insult to their professionalism. It is, however, an over reaction from yourself.
On this occaision, last Sunday, they were high speed transits in two formations through LFA6. They were heading along a ridge (usually used by Tucanos LL nav route) heading roughly east. During the weekend this area is densly crowded with gliders, light piston aircraft not to mention a parachute airfield very close by. They could have easily collided with a light piston flying into sun and the wreckage would have fallen onto a village below. Whereas, had they been flying at less densly populated altitudes the risk of collision is greatly diminished.
I have no brief regarding their flying or formation skills. They are, I believe, a good advert for the RAF, but they run the risk of acheiving precisely the opposite if they are invloved in a collision with light civvy traffic during the weekend by sticking to what I believe to be an unsafe transiting policy.
What's their number for booking a flypast next week??? Only joking :E

Don't be such an utter ar$e! It is far, far safer for the Reds to transit at a level not normally used by GA than up in 'Indian Territory' with all the Cherokees, Warriors, Tomahawks etc...

Jealous, moaning civvies who would doubtless give their eye teeth to sit in a Hawk, let alone fly in one should rest assured that the RAFAT has been flying quite safely around the UK for decades - so don't look for problems where non exist!