Reds - Fuel wasters
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Reds - Fuel wasters
The Reds flew over the village pub last night at 2000 approx in two groups, one of five and one of four. Obviously returning home.
Very nice boys and thank you for remembering it was my birthday.
Please tell me, why do you have to fly so low??
A - It's bloody dangerous, all those C150's etc etc in class G that don't read your notams.
B - It's a waste of fuel.
Very nice boys and thank you for remembering it was my birthday.
Please tell me, why do you have to fly so low??
A - It's bloody dangerous, all those C150's etc etc in class G that don't read your notams.
B - It's a waste of fuel.
FEBA
You kind of answered your own question there.
"Very nice boys, and thanks for remembering it was my birthday."
If they'd been saving fuel at Flight Level blah you wouldn't have even noticed them would you!
Low level is where fast jets belong. It's much more fun.
BV
"Very nice boys, and thanks for remembering it was my birthday."
If they'd been saving fuel at Flight Level blah you wouldn't have even noticed them would you!
Low level is where fast jets belong. It's much more fun.
BV
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Thanks Bob,
It was meant to be a tongue in cheek remark. I did'nt actually ask them to fly over the pub. I have a lot of FJ traffic over my gaffe and they are all at high level, presumably until the LL entry point. Why do they Reds have to do the entire sortie at low level?
It's dangerous to both them and other traffic
and
It's a waste of fuel!
It was meant to be a tongue in cheek remark. I did'nt actually ask them to fly over the pub. I have a lot of FJ traffic over my gaffe and they are all at high level, presumably until the LL entry point. Why do they Reds have to do the entire sortie at low level?
It's dangerous to both them and other traffic
and
It's a waste of fuel!
I'matightbastard
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Well. it was decided a long time ago to call them the Red Arrows and that was ok when we were flying biplanes, but as every aeronautical engineer knows, red paint just doesn't hold up in the high speed environment. Think about it, do you ever see any other fast jets painted red?
So they had a problem that they could solve one of two ways, they could rebrand themselves as the Blue Arrows, but it hardly has the same panache does it? Anyway back in the sixties one of our back room boys was playing around with his equipment and he realised that if he could invent an apparatus that could project the image of the jet travelling towards the viewer at extreme speed, the aircraft would appear to be red due to the doppler shift.
So, not many people know this, but the Arrows actually perform their display above 20,000 ft where they use the Coltingham Projector to beam an image down to the local village fete. Everyone's happy, the bug smashers are safe, the fuel bill is small enough for a round of G&Ts for the entire squadron after the show and the NIMBYs are happy because the display is almost silent.
Now I know you're going to scoff at this, but go to their website and pull up their schedule. Did you notice how during the summer they actually appear at several villege fetes at the same time? That's because they now include a Nimrod on the team to receive and rebroadcast the Coltingham Projection. Very clever indeed. In fact if fuel bills go much higher, you might see the entire team consisting solely of the Nimrod and the mess VCR. I hope they remember to change the tape first though.
So they had a problem that they could solve one of two ways, they could rebrand themselves as the Blue Arrows, but it hardly has the same panache does it? Anyway back in the sixties one of our back room boys was playing around with his equipment and he realised that if he could invent an apparatus that could project the image of the jet travelling towards the viewer at extreme speed, the aircraft would appear to be red due to the doppler shift.
So, not many people know this, but the Arrows actually perform their display above 20,000 ft where they use the Coltingham Projector to beam an image down to the local village fete. Everyone's happy, the bug smashers are safe, the fuel bill is small enough for a round of G&Ts for the entire squadron after the show and the NIMBYs are happy because the display is almost silent.
Now I know you're going to scoff at this, but go to their website and pull up their schedule. Did you notice how during the summer they actually appear at several villege fetes at the same time? That's because they now include a Nimrod on the team to receive and rebroadcast the Coltingham Projection. Very clever indeed. In fact if fuel bills go much higher, you might see the entire team consisting solely of the Nimrod and the mess VCR. I hope they remember to change the tape first though.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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MJ has given you one very good reason, and having 'been there and done that' I can assure you that taking 10 aircraft across the busy UK airspace at high level can result in significant extra miles flown and a lot of work for a busy ATC system to get 2 separate formations around, and if there is any weather about, getting 10 down (no, not a crossword
) can be a bit of a challenge. Straight lines can be drawn without worrying about airways, and only minor deviations are required to avoid CTAs and the like. Throw in to that that if the team regularly 'arrived' at their display site in groups of 3, 5 minutes apart off an ILS, what would the audience think of it so far................
If the distances are significant, it is done at high level with the associated penalties.
Edited for Onan: I think, with the new Bush/Blair accord, it is done with AWACS? Of course, you show your age talking about a 'VCR'
) can be a bit of a challenge. Straight lines can be drawn without worrying about airways, and only minor deviations are required to avoid CTAs and the like. Throw in to that that if the team regularly 'arrived' at their display site in groups of 3, 5 minutes apart off an ILS, what would the audience think of it so far................ If the distances are significant, it is done at high level with the associated penalties.
Edited for Onan: I think, with the new Bush/Blair accord, it is done with AWACS? Of course, you show your age talking about a 'VCR'
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Onan
It is possible that you may have let the cat out of the bag. Expect a visit late at night
What's the next villege Onan 
It is possible that you may have let the cat out of the bag. Expect a visit late at night
appear at several villege fetes at the same time
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Sorry, Onan - you have gone that step too far. The Nimrod participation is highly classified, and the Coltingham Projector is on the codeword list.
I have had no option but to report you to the appropriate authorities, who are now investigating.
Expect a visit from men in black in the infamous black Omega...
I have had no option but to report you to the appropriate authorities, who are now investigating.
Expect a visit from men in black in the infamous black Omega...
Well now if they fly close formation....why not just follow the Nimrod down the ILS....and ziggy over to the fete en mass? Somehow the thought of following a Nimrod could be said of most military formations....aerial or on foot.
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Reds as fuel wasters...yep..makes sense. Disband them and save the public the agony of 28 formation changes in 30 odd minutes. Still thats time for a leg over in the motor, tom tit, latte grande and still make it back to crowd centre for a much more punchy Frecce Tri Co display 
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Don't disband the Reds, how on earth would I get out of airshows first except when the utterly dull as well as waste of fuel are doing their thing at the end and the great unwashed anorak wearing sunburned proles are looking up saying ' ooooh aren't they great mavis'
The only ones worse are that Spanish bunch of set piece merchants, give me some Blue Angels or the like anytime.
The only ones worse are that Spanish bunch of set piece merchants, give me some Blue Angels or the like anytime.
Whilst many in the mob gently take the pi$$ out of the 'Team', the Arrows are consummate professionals who have managed to fight off all the attempts of avaricious beancounters intent on clipping their wings...
Good luck, Reds, long may you prosper!
Good luck, Reds, long may you prosper!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Beags, mind you they pissed us off right Royally at Akrotirii.
Not really their fault but the Staish. Mess rules were very tight, no flying suits, no flip flops etc etc. And there were the Reds in flying suits and flip flops and the Staish fawning all over them.
Ok Ok, bit like the VC10s. They didn't want it but WTH they had to do it so often why not be comfortable with it.
On the question of are they worth it? Saw a pair of Mirage Vs at Waddo, looked like they were tied together. Now watching heavy metal doing the routine is something else again.
Not really their fault but the Staish. Mess rules were very tight, no flying suits, no flip flops etc etc. And there were the Reds in flying suits and flip flops and the Staish fawning all over them.
Ok Ok, bit like the VC10s. They didn't want it but WTH they had to do it so often why not be comfortable with it.
On the question of are they worth it? Saw a pair of Mirage Vs at Waddo, looked like they were tied together. Now watching heavy metal doing the routine is something else again.
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I seem to remember a French Fighter School that when teaching Formation actually tied the aircraft together.....Four aircraft all tied together with a bit of rope. ....very impressive
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CharlieGolf - Everyone knows its not the fall that hurts you.
mbga9pgf - I, like many, don't have any real hard feelings about The Reds one way or the other. Lots of people get huge amounts of enjoyment out of watching them and that's good enough for me. However, I'm of the mind that its the ABSENCE of the noise of military grade jet engines that's the sound of freedom.
Then again, its really down to how you define freedom now isn't it.
mbga9pgf - I, like many, don't have any real hard feelings about The Reds one way or the other. Lots of people get huge amounts of enjoyment out of watching them and that's good enough for me. However, I'm of the mind that its the ABSENCE of the noise of military grade jet engines that's the sound of freedom.
Then again, its really down to how you define freedom now isn't it.