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Pay as You Starve!
Anyone had much experience with the new Pay As You Dine system? Would be nice to know others experiences, thoughts etc.
I believe the Navy have a trial unit, and RAF have two up and running?!? TheBeeKeeper (DH82b) |
PAYD marks the end of the paternalistic nonsense of charging people for meals they neither want nor eat (which, one day, will surely rank alongside underwear inspections in the "stupid ex-QR" league).
Eat what you want, when you want. What is there not to like about it? (Please spare us the guff about kids pi$$ing their dinner money up the wall. If a few junior service personnel start becoming starving alcoholics, then, like most aspects of personal care, it will soon become pretty obvious to even the daftest line manager). PAYD Website could do with updating though |
Come off it. Unless MOD is saving money, they would not have changed anything. Can garantee that once this in place, food standards will go down, cost will go up, and we will begin to live in segregated messes where everyone eats take-out and cooks food in their room microwaves. Very social for an officers mess.
Not great. for a hundred quid a month, I get very reasonable food, a full breakfast, good lunch and silver service 3 course meal, followed by cheese and biccys.... how much is that going to cost on the PAYD scheme? I get paid enough not really to care if i miss one or two meals. |
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'Can garantee that once this in place, food standards will go up' I think not, food standards here have gone down considerably. Chefs are being told which suppliers they are to use and to spend less on the cuts of meat etc. As for the ORs, they are getting a rough deal, thier mess has been turned into an all ranks and civil servants facility (so, no where to go of a lunch time and slag off your boss). And the contractor is still not making money because people are voting with their feet! Contractors solution to this problem? They are wanting to start combined messing at the weekends for starters, with a view to 7 day a week combined messing! So how long will the Officers Mess and SNCOs Mess last? Who knows! TheBeeKeeper (DH82b) |
The big problem with the current system is that some people eat 21 meals a week and some do not eat in the Mess. However, they both pay the same food charge. If we go to a mess where the take-up is low we get fabulous meals. If we go to somewhere like RAF Saxa Vord, where the take-up is high, the standard is not so good.
The next problem is the lack of investment in the infrastructure of our Junior Ranks Faciliities, they are falling apart. If you look at RAF Leuchars (the STC PAYD Trial Site) there is a complete new facility with Bowl, Bar, Restaurant, Cafe etc. The sort of facilities you would frequent if you went down town. The option on whether personnel eat there is up to them, if the quality is not good enough, or the price is not low enough, there will not be the custom. Early indications are that it is a good thing! |
mbga9pgf
Of course, people might also question why they're having to subsidise Flying Officer Billy Bunter in the Officers' Mess ;) TheBeeKeeper Does having 3 kitchens on one stn, with a handfull of people eating in each mess, really make any sense? By all means, keep individual mess dining rooms and kitchens for the odd formal do, but centralised messing is almost inevitable. If necessary, have segregated areas for different ranks in one dining room. |
Steve, dont you think that they undoubtedly are going to ram loads of funding into the initial PAYD projects, to sway the vote as it were toward PAYD. I highly doubt similar funding would be provided around the Air Force if PAYD came online.
Ultimately, the officers mess is non-public anyway, unlike junior (not sure about sgts??) however, I have no objection to junior or sgts messes going over to PAYD as undoubtedly they will benefit from the sceme; far more of them to contribute. I am slightly concerned however that the move in the long run for the OM will be asignificant worsening of standards, and a massively increased cost for all involved in wishing to have an active Mess social life. The ideal method of course would be current feeding arrangements that allow you to claim a Missed meal allowance for the money you have paid for meals but through no fault of your own have been unable to eat; those with one or two missed meals will hardly bother; those with a significant proportion of their days away in a month can claim back what they are entitled to. |
mbga9pgf
You are right, ESS did make RAF Leuchars the Flagship and there were aspects of the development that pushed through irrespective of cost. However, that said, it is a fantastic improvement to the quality of life. As for life in the Mess, well I think that is dying anyway. The old days of having a dozen formal events a year for 10 shillings is long gone. It is time to try and bring the Service Community back together. Pay As You Dine may not be the answer, but the question was lost a long time ago. The Officers' Mess is a mixture of public and non-public money. Yes the Members contribute to the runnig of the Mess (non-public) but the building, staffing and maintenence is picked up by the public purse. The same as the Sgts' Mess. The Junior Ranks Mess is all public. |
Steve, fully agree that life in the mess is changing. and I also fully subscribe to accepting any changes supposedly in the services interest. But I joined for the life, not a job.
Having said that, I also joined understanding that with the armed forces, you either jump on the bus, or get trampled. I dont mean for any of my comments to be winges, just observations from a permanent live-er in at possibly the most lifeless mess in the Air force! |
PAYD at RAF Henlow a bit of a culture shock. I don't know whether the soldiers and Airmen (the only sailors I saw were SNCO/officers) want to eat in a formica filled, down market looking motorway service station -type environment.....but they now have to.
As for the officers' mess, many of the same cheerful staff (for another year or two - until closure?) but food standards definitely down. Fewer choices (often exhausted very quickly further reducing choice) and not of the same quality - subjective I know but you did ask. Agree that only reason was to save money....if it ain't broke don't fix it = if it was cost neutral where was the demand for change? (expect an avalanche of stats form some counsultant on that one but I still won't believe it). Bon apetit !:yuk: |
From what I have been briefed we can also expect to see bar prices shoot up as all catering on stns will fall under PAYD, not just food (OK, so beer is food). Bars will be run by the PAYD contractor = normal civvy prices. Anyone with direct experience of the pilot stns got any gen on this?
PAYD might be fairer than the current system in principle, ie why should those that choose to miss some meals subsidise the rest, but is the alternative of worse and/or more expensive food any better? I think not, plus add in the likelyhood of combined messing and another chip away at military ethos. Maybe the 'E' in 'RISE' stands for 'Eating together'?! Good news is that PAYD pilot projects don't appear to be a runaway success with the contractor apparently loosing money, and implementation has slipped at least a year. At least they aren't hostages to fortune by calling it something with a year in the title like CS95 or Pay 2000! (or even Eurofighter 2000!) |
Now I might be speaking out of turn, but I suggest the subscribers to this debate are all of officer rank. The huge change to quality of life is that of the junior ranks. I personally do not agree that RAF Henlow is "formica filled, down market looking motorway service station". The Cafe Ritazza sells all the food you would want to buy, ciabatas, capacino (excuse the spellings no great on foreign!).
As for the pricing regimes, they are carefully governed between the Authority (Stn) and the Supplier Partner (Contractor). I could bore you for hours on the way PAYD is funded, but essentially the Authority contributes considerably to it. In STC the Supplier Partner gets the Core Catering Manpower for nothing. Therefore, costs are kept to a minimum. As I said before, if the troops do not like it they will not use it! |
Well let the junior ranks have it then. Adoption of PAYD should be brought into the Officers and sgts messes through a vote at the AGM, not forced in by beaurocracy. Everyone in the main then will be happy.
To give you ean example how rediculous things are already, at our mess we can only select certain wines and Champagne if the contractor who supplies them has them on the official list; a local bloke who visited us on a wine tasting night had an almost perfect bottle of champagne, far cheaper than what the top priced one was behind the bar, and surprise surprise, due to contracts we couldnt stock up. Bloody Typical. And whose mess exactly is it? I agree things must improve for the Junior Ranks, but their messes are wholly funded by public funds. So lets sack some civil servants responsible for high level beaurocracy and cost cutting like PAYD and other silly government schemes and use their salaries to suppliment the Junior Ranks. Steve, surely if the Junior Ranks dont use it, yet STC are stuck in a contact with some civvie company loosing money as a result, we aren't exactly doing everything to save desperately required funds and PAYD will become another scheme despised by all as a waste of cash! Save our Messes! |
mbga9pgf - check your pm's mate!
I can't believe you're whingin' about the quality of yor champers, the last time I saw you it was kebabs morning, noon, and night! EP |
SteveStephens
Have you been to lunch at Crystals - RAF Henlow? Counted the number of people that actually use the facility? It's not good and ESS are certainly not making money! As for the quality of the food, menu options that would have normally been on offer before PAYD are now offered as A la Carte options costing you twice as much as the core menu! Don't even get me started on bar prices!!!!! ESS don't make money on the drinks for a start, they buy the stock, provide the staff and sell the drinks on at cost plus whatever GPP has been decided by the committee. We are not allowed to choose who supplies the beer, which tends to suggest that ESS have their own preferred suppliers who, at the end of the year offer a bonus in the way of kick back as a percentage of the amount of beer etc purchased. The knock on effect of this, is that the supplier can (and does) put up the prices regularly and it makes no difference to ESS and actually benefits them. I would get my hand slapped if I even tried to phone the supplier to ask anything about prices. Typical example recently, sun is shining, Sunday afternoon, jug of Pimms in the garden, you know the drill! ESS are buying Pimms in at £18/litre for the mess...... surely I should not be able to go to a supermarket and buy it for £12/litre! Admittedly, we don't pay a great deal for our drinks, but if we were using different suppliers and introduce a little competition, then at least we could increase our GPP putting more cash into ents funtions throughout the year. This problem is not just confined to the OM, ESS buy for Juniors and SNCOs too! TheBeeKeeper (DH82b) |
Damn right EP, there is not a kebab in the world like an Abduls kebab from Oxford road! Or, as the case was with me, attempting to live on a fiver a week, a geminis "cat and dog" special, never did see many cats on the curry mile, did you?
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What an interesting thread! 15 to 20 years ago there was a great push for PAYD. All the 'livers-in' suggested that this was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Those of us that were trying to 'hold the line' were slammed as being 'old fogies' completely out of touch with what the modern RAF needed.
Funny old thing how things tend to come full circle. You are now at the half way point where you have got (eventually) what was wanted. You will now have a long way to go (if ever) before it gets back to some reasonable service and quality of life. Old Chinese curse - may you get what you want! In the wider picture - contracting out won't work. What happens when there is an overriding national interest type situation? Will the contractors continue to fulfill their obligations? Trenchard had the right idea with the contraction of the 1920s. Contract (ie, downsize) by all means but retain a nucleus of each branch so that when expansion comes (which it will eventually - Bliar can't last for ever) each branch has the instructors it needs to rapidly expand. Right now the Armed Forces are losing expertise which cannot be replaced and is not being passed on. I dare say that this is totally wasted on some of the feckwits that are now up at the top (all sqn ldrs when I was in - and some of them I wouldn't give you tuppence for). So, Good Morning CAS, read and inwardly digest. Ignore history at your peril. |
As an ex Manchester Uni stude the name Abdul's takes me back a few years!!! Without doubt the finest chicken kebab in the world. Although I always reckoned the Wilmslow Road branch in Fallowfield was the best!
Who'd have thought it would take a kebab shop to make my first post! |
If you want to get rich quick try to get a mcdonalds up and running in carterton, or if thats a bit difficult try getting shares in franks chinky or alex kebabs outside the osprey. there is no way a unit the size of this one here could run a payd, whom will gamble on providing 800 meals a session if everyone turns up, or cook 800 if no one does. But still looking forward to some nice meals in downtown khartoum with General Gordon, any one know any sudanese kebab shop locations
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Ick:rolleyes:
"What about sauces to compliment ones dining experience. Call me old fashioned but i rather enjoy some horseradish sauce with roast beef. But oh no-- now I can only have a SATCHET of horseradish, individually charged to my account----SATCHETS in an officers' mess!!!!" "the powers that be have already read my mind and implemented these screw down plastic chairs.All very officer like!!!" I go down route regular as a regular thing with "royals" who seem to like nothing better that eating cheap in the Arches etc as on the ground "eatings cheating". The fact that they also have absolutey no prob's with plastic and sachets and bearing in mind that even on here it would seem kebab's and other junk food are the "tales of tomorrow" why suddenly on return to the heartland does one feel the need to have ones status massaged with silver service? I had thought the "upper class pompous twit" thing was on the way out...guess I was wrong:rolleyes: Combined messing.....bring it on and see how the other half live! all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced |
As a long departed SNCO I'm astonished at what has come to pass. Supplier Partner? Core Catering Manpower? Geeze!
On the subject of combined messing, has anyone asked the erks how they feel about dining with a load of zobbits? There's a good reason for the separation of ranks in the military. Maybe the right answer is to go back to the origins and have the Officers and SNCOs organize their own messes at their own expense, with public money only paying for the premises and a modest 'ration allowance' per head. As far as I can see there's nothing to prevent the mess members as a group, bidding for their own contract, then appointing their own managers to actually run the place. Any difference between the ration allowance and the actual service provided could be paid for as Mess Bills. The advantage would be that unlike independent outside contractors, the mess would be a non-profit making enterprise. Just as it was in the first place. |
Too right, Blacksheep, as another long-departed SNCO I heartily agree. Vive la difference!!
The more I read in these forums of life in the Mob nowadays, the happier I am that I left 21 years ago. I really don't think I could stomach the crap which appears to go on now. I would not wish to dine with Officers OR Other Ranks, my Mess was for me and my ilk, long may it remain so. If that appears to some as living in the past and wishing for "the old days", so be it. This erosion of recognition of the differences in rank/status cannot do any good, IMHO. Ducks back behind parapet to await incoming! Kind regards, TheNightOwl.:ok: |
During the dim and distant days of TACEVAL when centralised messing was instigated it was a commonly held view amongst officers and SNCOs that the food was top notch. We didn't mind going to the Airmen's Mess to eat but it did seem to me that the airmen minded.
I well remember one exercise at Wittering. I was sitting at a table on my own when I was approached by one lad with a heaped dinner plate (like, it had beans running off the side it was so heaped). He was all cheerful when he grunted "Anyone 'ere mate?", sat down and proceeded to scoop the contents of his plate into his frame in much the same fashion as a mechanical digger clawing clay from the side of a brick pit. He then seemed to note that I was not a fellow airman (we were all in NBC kit, sans respirators) when he spied my bit of green tape saying "Sqn Ldr xx" hidden in the folds of the NBC jacket. At that point his head went down closer to the mountain of mash and a protective arm went around the top of the plate as if to guard it from my attentions. It passed an amusing 5 minutes in what was a fairly turgid exercise. Vive la difference! |
Glad to see some of the comments. Its funny how for the last 30 + years personnel have been asking for Pay As You Dine. Now it is coming in, they are all against it.
STC has always resisted MACs, unlike Porridge Command. However, 3 into 1 (Catering, Retail and Leisure) has been mandated by the DMB. Therefore, in theory, all Stns within the MoD will convert sooner or later to a MAC or PAYD. PAYD is being trialled and the DMB are not going to make a decision on go ahead until next year. However, if personnel use it ...........................................! |
Do people realise that if the 3 in to 1 system comes online, that the contractor gets all leisure activities.
So the rugby club bar won't add to the rugby club funds, just line the pockets of the contractor, maximising their profit making position to the detriment of the clubs and activities on a station At least with NAAFI the ORs got a rebate:yuk: |
Black Spot
As I said in my last post, 3into1 is mandated so it is not an option. However, the leisure activities referred to are the ones run by NAAFI at present, or should I say not run by NAAFI! As for the Rugby Club, in STC each major non-public revenue stream will be examined to see whether it is in or out of the Contract. At RAF Leuchars the Bowl is in, the Rugby Club is out. Then you get onto the Charities Act, you might be aware that the majority of Clubs do not conform to the Act! |
Some things you can't civilianise!
Recent local news article
As with all contracts, how can you ensure quality when the contractor is effectively written in as the boss. Civ Company = profit Profit = money not spent on service =>decline in quality. Up here at Leuchars, loyal, long-serving staff have gone unpaid for months, in some instances up to £800 in arrears. In principle, PAYD is great - you pay for what you eat. However, when it goes as far as paying for individual slices of toast and saches of jam for afternoon tea, it's surely gone too far. Main meal portions have shrunk greatly in size and some staff are now more like salesmen than the usual friendly faces we were used to. You can only put so much down to 'teething problems' Oh, and did i say it was sh*te??:O Uncle G |
MAC vs Service Messes
A little off topic, but.....
In my last job I was required to spend a lot of time on the road, attending meetings at places such as MOD, HQSTC and visiting most of our bases including specialist or Joint Service units such as Chicksands and Cosford. This kind of lifestyle rapidly highlighted those areas of success or failure in the area of Messing and accomodation. What was abundantly clear is that those Messes which retain their "Service" status were better by a country mile than the MAC/Civilian run counterparts. (i.e. the Mess Manager is a WO/FS and the Mess is run in the traditional manner). My experience of the MACs is that they provide a degraded service in almost all areas; getting things fixed i.e. lack of hot water in an entire wing, was almost impossible; there seems to be little accountability for poor service and a predominance of Mess Managers who treat the place like a Trusthouse Forte with little regard for the lifestyle of the 'customers'. After three days of no hot water at Cosford, I threatened to move into a hotel and send the bill to the Mess Manager; miraculously the hot water came on that evening! There is also a poor attitude prevalent on bases with Messes that are MAC-run in that anything that is not directly stipulated in the contract is too difficult/costly/time-consuming to change; things change over time and we have learnt the hard way that we never foresee every eventuality when writing contracts! For example. the RAF personnel at a Joint Service unit wanted to host a Battle Of Britain function last year; this was prevented because it wasn't part of the agreed 8 'official' functions allowed each year, and the (Civilian) Mess Manager refused to consider adding a ninth! On the subject of PAYD - great concept but unfortunately I believe that this will be another erosion of our traditions and lifestyle. This is by no means a snobbish attitude; from one who has been both a JR and an officer, in both incarnations I would rather have dined with my peers! SBG |
The first kiss of death was the Contract Caterers, Compass Caterers comes to mind from the wild Moors of North Yorkshire in the Eighties and again before demobb down South, driven by profit and declining standards.
They could'nt do Silver service in the mess for a dining in Night, so had to do a trial run with the full Menu at their cost and the peas were everywhere, they got it right in the end. Now look where they are:} Profits, nothing else. |
Allan907, Luqa Mess, 1974, PAYD, Nimrod Soup, toast, butter and all priced separately. I think a slice of toast was 2p. But I digress.
StevenStevens is clearly very well connected. I recognise all the facts from the brief at STC last month. It certainly looks good and there is no doubt that there are warts. The contractor wanting to run the clubs too to ensure he gets his 10% profit. Interestingly Coningsby want to make an in-house bid for PAYD. Having done all the study they then found they had overlooked the sqn faciltiies and southside feeder. |
The other aspect of contract catering not mentioned so far, is the decline in numbers of uniformed staff. If you take chefs, for example - they are often required to deploy on ops or exercises to supplement host base staffing levels. So when the Harrier Force embark onto a carrier, RAF chefs/stewards, etc go with them. With the declining numbers of uniforms, it means that those that are left bear an increased burden of depolyments.
Result? A highly pi**ed off workforce that vote with their feet, knowing that in civi street, military chefs are snapped up with indecent haste. These guys walk into top notch jobs an the hotel & restaurant world [often at much higher salaries]. Incidentally, the same goes for civilian contractorisation across the Forces. How many civilian contractors joined in any of the recent bashes in the Middle East, Balkans, Sierra Leone, etc. Many of us said civilian contractorisation was a disasterous mistake at the time of concept, and I hate to say it - but I'm going to anyway - WE TOLD YOU SO... [but no-one listened to anyone except the bean counters]. |
I remember a PAYD trial at St Mawgan in 1973 (I think it was about then anyway). It made sense and was handled by the Service caterers and standards didn't slip at all. The potential problem with the current PAYD (which isn't really a trial more of a phased introduction) is that it will become contractor dominated rather than customer led (which was the idea).
For example the original plan at Leuchars was rejected by the contractors as being uneconomic for them. Inclusion of the Bowl was I suspect a sweetener to give then an extra profit stream. The prefered solution for the Strike trial was to use Servicemen and MOD civilians with contractor support only for the accounting part of the business but in the end the investment required resulted in a contractor led solution. The contractors hope to recoup their investment through their profits - in effect the Serviceman will be paying for improvements to his clubs and messes through his food bills! PAYD is a fairer system than the food charge but will ultimately be more expensive for the individual. It will also lead to more contractorisation of the catering trade (already one of the hardest pressed in OOA turn-round times) and in time to the errosion of standards in oficers and sergeants messes (although hopefully improvements for the junior ranks). With care we should be able (have been able) to improve the latter without harming the former - the jury is still out but lessons from the Leuchars trial need to be learned carefully before it is applied as the standard across the rest of Strike. I would still like to see a Service run/led trial at the next MOB to go down this route. In the meantime investing in a Kebab wagon or mobile Fish & Chips bar to park outside STC MOBs looks like a good investment!:cool: |
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'and in time to the errosion of standards in oficers and sergeants messes (although hopefully improvements for the junior ranks)' In days gone by, not that long ago mind, the best mess I have eaten in was as an airman at Odiham, Surf n' Turf night..... Inch think Fillet, Lobster, Whole tail scampi etc. Don't think you would be able to get that on the core menu of PAYD! TheBeeKeeper (DH82b) |
Investing in a Kebab van outside STC MOBs would sound like a good deal, until you realise that the PAYD company at Leuchars banned the long established van from working outside the station. They could only do this because he used a power supply from the base, good for him, good for the people of Leuchars, too much competition for ESS.
ESS nothing more than a money grabbing company with no understanding of military or mess life. Yes they have improved the all-ranks facility, but at the expense of the junior ranks bar, and mess life is at best critical, definetely on life support. PAYD sounds like a good idea, but once again we a let down by the contract writers (Leuchars is STC PAYD trial but has signed a 10 year contract - extensive trial or clever dealing by ESS?) and people who don't appreciate that military life is different to civilian life. |
But (without being political), however good it is, it's also an unwelcome step in the direction of Central Planning, a la failed Warsaw Pact economies and is an enormous reduction in choice for Messes.
When I was last at EGOS, the links with local, exceptionally good wine merchant "Tanners of Shrewsbury" was forcibly removed by MegaContractor Inc, with MoD agreement, that they would supply all alcohol on base (might have only been Glider Command). Staish at the time tried all he could to reverse the decision (allegedly), but the argument went thus: MoD: Messes can only source other than from contractor, when contractor cannot supply. Staish: Contractor cannot supply "Tanner's Claret" or "Tanner's Champagne", without which no D-I-N/Ball at Shawbs has been complete for 60 years. MoD: That doesn't count - claret is claret and fizz is fizz. Back in yer box Staish, and don't bother us again. And we used to get free wine tastings, which were educational (and fun) from Tanner's too. Ah well.... :( :( |
Slotback,
Didn't know the Kebab van at Leuchars drew power from the public supply I always thought he was completely self contained. Has he really gone? Well at least that will reduce the SMO's sick parades!! But where will 'arry the Staish get a quick soaker upper on his way home from Happy Hour? As for the 10 year contract it may be called a trial but believe me this a phased introduction across all 3 Services. There's no turning back unless we can afford to pay the contractor for the improvements to the JRs' Mess. |
Glad to see all the different opinions, however most of them are incorrect! I am not a defender of PAYD, I only know a reasonable amount about the subject.
Uncle Ginsters The MoD Civilians that transferred to ESS transferred with the same pay, bonuses and Pay Deal that they were getting. Yes there were problems that were soon sorted when it came to the attention of the "Grown Ups". Pontius Navigator Coningsby are trying to do PAYD on their own, the head chef was at RAF Leuchars until recently! We all agree that the RAF Chefs are the finest in the MoD, however they are not business men. If they ran PAYD, who would pay for the investment? Who would pay for the meals that were not consumed? FJJP Totally agree, if we do not look after our personnel, we wont be able to keep the 20,000 that we are reducing to! Slotback The demise of the Kebab Wagon was nothing to do with ESS. Must admit I have has a few of his finest over the years. Yes you are right Contractors do need to make profit. Were you aware that profit is filtered back to the Stn through Gainshare? OK I have lit the touch paper ......................will retire to a safe distance. |
Pay still not resolved
Steve,
As informed as you may be, you can rest assured that the pay issues at Leuchars are not even close to being fully resolved. In the OM alone, there are more than a handful of staff well into 3-figures out of pocket, in some instances approaching 4. You are right about the 'grown ups' knowing - allegedly, one of the Staish's (ESS run?!?) staff had to be taken into town by Mrs Staish to arrange their first bank loan because of it. If the involved/responsible 'grown ups' are indeed aware of this, surely that simply makes the problem more grave. Touch-paper ignites & burns, retreat, :D Uncle G |
In the meantime investing in a Kebab wagon or mobile Fish & Chips bar to park outside STC MOBs looks like a good investment! I don't think many PAYD contractors will be providing this sort of service, but the powers that be are serving notice on Dutchy to move on. Dutchy's web site can be found at: www.savedutchy.co.uk |
Head above parapet time...
From a purely eating POV, as someone who visits many establishments and a veggie to boot (I know, I can feel the incoming already) PAYD is a good idea as it allows me to walk out when I see deep fried frozen veg again at the counter. From the contractors' POV this is wasteful and eats into their profits. The obvious response to the contractors is improve the service. On one famous occasion I found it better to eat at the spotters' repository co-located with the latest Purple College on the grounds that as I was paying for it anyway I might as well eat something I could stomach. For all you secret veggies out there the place near the golf course has the best to date, although on reading SteveStephens reply to Pontius, I may have to visit Coningsby more... Impiger, the St Mawgan trial sounds too sensible to be a winner for the MoD! I did some work with British Aerospace (back in the pre-flashy name days of course) and their subsidised canteen system was fantastic and very heavily used by all thanks to the quality. |
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