CR,
As an ex pilot one could ask the question what the **** do you know about being a loadie, their training or any of the associated duties there in:}

As an ex TWA pilot one could ask what the **** do you know about fixed wing captaincy and the life threatening decisions to be made in that job:}

As a Rupert one could ask what the **** do you ACTUALLY know about being a commisioned officer and pilot in the RAF:rolleyes:

Your apparent ignorance to any of the above is has not stopped you posting "with confidence" in here on subjects you know very litle about :rolleyes:

The basic crew on a Puma was Pilot + pilot/nav + crewman, On a J model herc it is pilot + pilot + Loadmaster. I have for the last 15 shared crewrooms, classrooms, flightdecks and bedrooms with pilots. We continuously cross fertilize as neither trade can do our jobs properly without a basic understanding of each others task needs. Without overstating my role I currently teach VERY BASIC ALM SUBJECTS to new pilots entering the J world. It's not "pilot sh!t mav" but as the aircraft captians it is information they must know.

You are correct I am not a pilot but I think based on my years of experiance I am able to offer some well rounded, although often extremely biased, advice to those seeking a future in military aviation :ok:

Now a spot of advice to you would be to take a leaf out of Bill O's book and learn to spot your enemy at a very early stage:rolleyes: There are some of us who love to come into these forums with a serious wish to contribute but also couple that with an inbread desire to poke around under the rocks to see what we can startle into veiw. :ok: And whilst it may offend you a pompous ass is just a "target rich environment" for the likes of me.

Now like I said before go back through this thread and have a look at your posts and ask yourself why people took offence...........and why I saw it as a oppertunity not to be missed:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

...I'll take that as a bite then.

And I'm sure that we'd all like to hear a little bit more about how you cross fertilise with pilots in their bedrooms!

Now you, with your "years of experience" should know what a freudian slip is?

I bow to your greater knowledge, experience, spelling capability and sanctimony.

CR... much better!! Now that is banter. Mind you, the pilots must be pretty desperate if they want to cross pollenate with ABIW. He used to scare soldiers with those boyish looks...

Incoming!!

No stick, no vote?:p

Crewmen are made to feel wanted due to the front feeling sorry for them not achieving. Horrorbox supervisor.:D

CR,
Is it by chance an item of german lingerie:p

Jayteeto,
I have said it before and will say it again it only hurts the first time:uhoh: and does'nt taste that bad:E

Bill 'o
The RAF developed CRM to deal with your like:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

But you are in-flight manager of packed lunches though? ;)

Bl**dy Hell!!!

I havent logged on for a few days and I come back to find that this thread has totally kicked off!! It certainly is handbags at dawn!! I think Ive learnt more about inter- service rivalry than anything else!!! Good stuff! Thanks for all your posts anyway, I think Ive got a reasonably clear picture now of how each of the three careers might pan out.

Cheers chaps!

Foz.

Ps. If I went for the Navy, would I spend most of my time at sea or would it be a mixture. (This would be heli flying btw).

Fozz, if you go Junglie, you will spend some time at sea but the majority of your time will be spent all over the place, very very busy. Highly enjoyable....

Timex,

Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by going 'Junglie'??

Cheers.

foz.

Junglie= Mk4 Sea King/Commando, main support to Royal Marines. Tend to do main hump and dump of said knuckle draggers and do lots and lots of green work. Top blokes the lot and work their tit5 off all over the place. Wear green most of the time instead of P+O stewards kit like the remainder of FAA.

Down to earth types with a mutual agreement that RAF SH are woofters. Good eggs and much respect. Even though they are a bunch of cowboys and cant drink for toffee. At least they aint crabs!!

Foz2....

Well, I must say that I'm quite disappointed by the way this thread has gone. Rather than a reasoned discussion it has degenerated into a willy waving contest about semantics around stories people know not enough about or, in a couple of cases, those who just like trying to get a response.

I stand by what I said in my original post and that is my honest view. And it follows a similar line to Bill's subsequent one.

The key decision for you....and this is why I could never be in the RAF...is...Do you just want to fly and aren't too interested in the military/officer/leadership bit. While I personally can't stand that view many RAF Officers will openly admit that is why they joined. Some would even say….what’s wrong with that?

I might not agree with it but that doesn't mean they are bad pilots...of course they're not. Or even bad blokes in some cases. But in terms of being what I would see as a good officer...well, there have been so many instances where you know they are thinking 'I can't be arrsed with doing this duty or organising this, when can I fly again'. Again, Leadership is not taught in a command task. I was astounded to find out that RAF Pilots are 're-coursed' at Cranwell for being rubbish and then allowed to remain in the RAF's most select branch. If you are a poor officer by Cranwell standards (which are hardly stellar)....then why on earth should they then be allowed to serve in the most select branch? Again they would argue, we’re only here to fly. Fine, if that’s what you want.

Not that Sandhurst is the be all and end all and some knobs do get through into the AAC but at least they have been tested a bit. If you are crap at RMAS, and I mean outside of the top 50% of the intake (you’d be lucky to get any half decent Regt/Corps to take you if you were back termed/re-coursed), then forget about the AAC. Remember that you do not have a trade/branch at the start of Sandhurst and there is a chance that out of the 6 or so of the 240 in the intake that go AAC then you may not make it in if your reports aren’t good enough. Then you’ll be in the R Artillery or something else for 3 years. I wouldn’t of minded that too much as being an Army Officer is a superb and demanding job in it’s own right…..flying is a bonus but it is not the only reason I joined.

The overwhelming point is…what do you want out of your career? Flying or being an officer, or a combination of the two. Bill’s post about AAC – Apache, then going R Navy (or Marines) when desk job looms large is the most sensible thing on here so far.

As I said before, when flying ends it'll be a sad day but there are many other challenges awaiting me in the rest of my career equally and more demanding than flying.

Best of luck…but go into it with your eyes open.

This is without doubt the worst thread that I have had the miss fortune to read on this forum in a long time.

We expect dross from the likes of ABIW, but I must say that I am disappointed with Chris Robin. Your posts are normally well balanced and often informative, but not on this thread I'm afraid.

Come on guys, Sort it out. Its not even banter, at least banter is normally slightly amusing.

I'll agree with that too.

As a Fleet Air Arm Pilot who is a junglie and has flown both Lynx 7 and Sea King 4 (Both not very well!) I can only say that there are quite a few members of the RAF and AAC whom I have a lot of respect for. In any service you will find people who do not fit the bill and give everyone else a bad name but, nevertheless, they do their job.

The three services do things differently by virtue of the job they do. In this joint era it is more important that we know each others strengths NOT weaknesses.

In my humble opinion!

I have just read this thread and am shocked at the abuse and banter that is being thrown around. Why can’t the three services just except that all our aviator and structures are slightly different, but they fit within our organisations. We all contribute, but in slightly different ways. The all commissioned airforce and Navy route would never work in the Army, quite simply because the Army commissions for different reasons than the Airforce. The professional aviators in the Army are enlisted. The airforce would be very poor operating an Apache as its Attack pilots don’t understand how the grunt thinks and therefore the Manoeuvre Battle would confuse them somewhat. On the other hand the Army does not seem to be able to get a set of SPINS or ACO out to its aviators in anything less than two days to late. The Navy however seems to just get on with its job and watch the squabbling from the side line and work quite nicely within its own world.

I have worked with all three services for many years as an aviator and when on joint ops, I have found we compliment each other nicely, but when on our own there is something lacking.

So just kiss and make up

Crikey! There's a few teddies in corners on this thread! Can't we all just get along??!! Here's food for thought - most pilots in the AAC would jump at the chance to transfer to the RAF - I know because I'm one of them and all the people I know feel the same!!! (Trouble is the RAF won't even give you a second glance if you're an NCO though - b@gger!) I have the utmost respect for our light blue brethren - they are thoroughly professional and in the Air Force flying comes first - most of my peers agree there is too much Army in the AAC and that's the main problem.

Bye then.:O












:ok:

Crypt,

At last:ok: .......................a truthful and honest post :p Nice one Dude:E

But don't do your self down fella cos, for those of you old enough to remember him, we took "AJ" off your hands:sad:.........Once a Staff Sgt ALWAYS a Feckin Staff Sgt :ok: So there is scope for you all, well apart from " Wrinkled Willy" of course, if you so wish:O

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Fellah, now you have made it personal. There is absolutely no need to drag names into these forums. Besides, if you want to name dropnames in like that remember you took him twice! and a safer; or for that matter more experienced pair of hands, you find hard to better in all 3 services. I would start apoligising if I were you.

Hey - what's wrong with having a go at people? Did everyone just get all sensitive all of a sudden?

This is a bit like the TV - if you don't like it, there is always the off button, but no. Clearly there are more than a few people haunting these forums that fancy themselves as the spiritual successors to Mary Whitehouse.

If you don't like what I've said, then fine - I respect your opinion, but if you want to restrict my freedom to say it, then I can't say I'd look at it in the same light.

Screw the nut Fizzog? Bore on! Nice the way you put it that I've pulled the thread into the gutter. Totally my fault. How even-handed of you.

Now stop acting like an overgrown school-prefect - you've either just discovered this forum and haven't seen some of the stuff that's been written in the past, or are just someone who
has seen the stuff written in the past and are trying to reinvent yourself as someone else.

Whatever, I enjoy a bit of smug sanctimony from people like you (as is your right).

Any more?