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Army Air Corps Pilots...??

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Army Air Corps Pilots...??

Old 29th Jan 2004, 00:20
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Army Air Corps Pilots...??

Hi,

I'm considering going to Sandhurst and trying for the AAC. Are there any current or ex AAC pilots out there who might give a little advice and maybe an insiders view on the lifestyle etc.

Also are my chances of being accepted greatly enhanced by having a PPL (A) or would that not be taken into consideration? I am currently half way through my PPL.

Any help would be much appreciated.


Thanks

Foz2.
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Old 29th Jan 2004, 00:56
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If you can't find anyone here, you could try www.arrse.co.uk (i think). I seem to remember a forum there for aac people.
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Old 29th Jan 2004, 05:43
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I just typed Army Air Corps into the search facility and came up with 76 hits, quite a few were relevant to your question Foz2.

As far as your PPL goes I imagine it may help you but from the AAC point of view I imagine you will be judged on your performance on the day.

Best of luck.
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Old 29th Jan 2004, 06:32
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Not sure sending him to the ARRSE site was very kind..........poor lad will probably never be the same ............on the other hand it may make him see the light

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Old 29th Jan 2004, 17:26
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Once again the assumption that this forum is just for RAF pilots - most AAC people who come in here registered literally years before you lot even heard of it.

...but back to the point, The AAC is a great organisation to join, and if you only want to fly for a few years then it is great, but when you join as an officer you will be condemned to a desk job just as you are getting used to being a pilot - this is not just my experience, you understand, but the career profile for all officers.

Unlike the airforce and navy, we have NCO pilots, which 'frees' the officers to do all the desk jobs.

You will fly, it will be fun, but by the time you are 27 you will have waved goodbye to fun and be knuckling down to some serious hard work. If you can have a look at the AAC directory (if you know anyone who can lend you a copy), just have a look at some of the jobs from Captain upwards - I have never seen such a collection of dreary jobs in my life, almost all the people in there are shining their @rses at a thankless drone's job.

Such is the life of an Army Officer, and if you want a career as an Army Officer then the AAC is the place to do it, but if you want to fly, then join the army as a soldier and don't go to RMAS. You could join the RAF, if you have a predisposition to being chippy, supercilious and living in a mess that looks like a downmarket conference centre, or why not try the navy?

Incidentally, the AAC now claim in briefings that they advise young officers that they will not fly all the time and that if you want to be a pilot you should look elsewhere. I'd like to think that they were that honest, but that would be changing the habit of a lifetime, because it never happened in the past.

It would be interesting to hear what your experiences of this have been.
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Old 29th Jan 2004, 17:27
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Do the army do flying grading? or am i thinking of the navy? If they do, i would imagine a ppl would be an advantage

As for arrse, good point. I seem to remember it made for depressing reading.
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Old 29th Jan 2004, 18:32
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Foz2
Chris me old mate as usual has posted some good advice and I would endorse his view that the arrse website lives up to its name and most of what you get there is ill informed whining!
The fact that an Officers flying tour ends for the Staff career shouldn't put you off if you have the ability to graduate through Sandhurst, it's a huge achievement and one that will remain with you forever. If you just want to fly then the RAF is for you where there is more choice of what you can fly depending on your ability. The Navy is a different beast and you should take advice from those that are both happy and unhappy with life aboard to get a balanced picture.
I spent a long time flying in the AAC both as a soldier and as an Officer before leaving and I have to say that the most fun was had as a soldier but these days fun is relative to the number of conflicts you get involved in. The AAC of course has the Apache and if the attack ethos presses your switch then maybe the AAC is for you ( if you want the skinny on the ethos PM me!!)
Whatever you decide best of luck.
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Old 29th Jan 2004, 19:48
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The two comments from the AAC Pilots are fair. From a Soldier Pilots point of view I wouldn't advice you to come through that route, we do get the lion share of the flying but most of the fun has gone. The 'AH' thing is all the rage, if your not 'AH', your not!

I honestly don't think any flying experience will be of any use to you what so ever, on Grading or any other part of the course. The Theory side of it will, but don't confuse Mil' Flying with Civil, very different!

If your passion is to fly, I think you should take another look at the RAF. You are obviously interested in Helicopters if you are looking at the AAC, I think you will find that the RAF Heli' guys get quite alot of time in the saddle.

Hope that helps. Best of luck anyway.

(AAC WO2 on Lynx)
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Old 30th Jan 2004, 07:30
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Thanks very much for all the advice, it does seem that if I want to fly then joining AAC as an officer is maybe not the best thing to do. I certainly dont want to be chained to a desk!!

Ive looked at the RAF but, correct me if Im wrong, you have to serve for minimum 12yrs if you join as a heli pilot. Whereas AAC is only 6? Does anyone know if this is the case in the Navy as well (as a heli pilot?).

Thanks

Foz2
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Old 30th Jan 2004, 08:32
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If you are worried about "how long" then the service life is not for you and maybe a civvie option would be better. Go have alook at some of the other threads to find out about how long possible "holds" are. basically military life as aircrew is not a short term option

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Old 30th Jan 2004, 12:03
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Wilts,

Another point of view if I may (I have not been in as long as you (from what I gather) but I have been in a while (mid 80's) and I have formed some opinions on this).

I would not discourage a "how long?" candidate - in fact I think it shows a high degree of common sense. I was a '"how long?" guy before I joined because I didn't KNOW what it was like. Many of my colleagues did their 2 tours (i.e. the armed forces got their 'money's worth' from them) and a lot more stayed in (inc me).

If I had a candidate who gave me the "I want to serve my entire career in the forces" line, then the reply to "how do you know, you are not actually doing it yet?" was often quite.... delayed.

There are 2 sides to every story.....

MT

ps) However, I must say that I have had a blast my entire time in and I'm still loving it :-) Nothing outside compares (and I did some stuff outside too!)
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Old 30th Jan 2004, 13:41
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RAF Terms of Service

Foz 2,

Just to clarify, when you join the RAF it is either on a Permanent Commission (PC) or a Short Service Commission (SC). A PC is 16 years or 38 years old which ever is later. A SC is, as you rightly said, 12 years. However your return of service is 6 years, which means you can opt to leave after that point, but you do lose your pension and some other benefits. I would thoroughly advise you to join the RAF over the AAC, if flying is your main goal. As a Junior Officer in the RAF you have very little desk work to do, as opposed to the AAC Officers. People seem to be alot happier and better treated in the RAF, you just have to look at the amount of pilots crossing over. Also, if you are that way inclined, a career whilst remaining a fully operational pilot is very possible, unlike in the AAC.
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Old 30th Jan 2004, 20:57
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Foz2
I would agree with pretty much everything said on this thread so far..

Your PPL won't make any difference to the AAC, in fact since the aim of grading is to see how much you improve with instruction I have heard of PPL holders doing worse since they don't shed bad habits easily and hence appear less 'absorbant' to the pearls of wisdom flowing from the LHS.

As an officer in the AAC look at the career structure before you commit, officers careers have changed radically recently and how long you remain at the front line will now depend on your time served, not your age. Everyone here loves to fly, but remember that what floats your boat now may not be quite so satisfying in 20 years time (do you want to be a chief or an indian?). If you want to fly above all else for the rest of your career, AAC officer is not for you.

While it is true that if you want to fly forever the RAF or Navy are better choices (I wouldn't go into the army as a soldier for this reason as you can't start the pilots course till you have been selected for promotion to Cpl, and even then the number of squaddies who were promised "no problem - do a few years and you'll be straight on the pilot's course" who are still floating around on the ground is huge! But on my pilot's course (tri-service) we had a crab on the basic rotary stage of the course who had been in the RAF for 6 years and had done nothing but his pilots course and holding posts, and was still at the same stage as the army boys (and girls) who had been on the course for 4 months. (admittedly he was fast jet and got all the way up to valley before being chopped - but still, 6 years )

Whichever way you jump nothing beats decent qulity military flying (you are never going to turn below treetop height and come face to face with a tank commander who is further from the ground than you are while flying a cessna )

Hope it all works out
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Old 31st Jan 2004, 00:54
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I'm speaking from the point of view of a Navy flyer who has served on an AAC squadron.

If you want to fly as an officer for more than one tour (2 years) then don't join the AAC. You WILL end up doing a staff job after 2 or 3 years flying and unless you are very lucky, won't touch the sticks and switches again.

If you want to fly jets then join the RAF, if you can stand the uniform and dubious work ethos.

If you want to be a real millitary officer who flies helicopters in varied environments then join the Royal Navy and push for Commando Sea Kings.

The PPL may help in the early stages of flying training but any advantage soon dissipates when going through operational flying training.

Nuff said...
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Old 31st Jan 2004, 05:01
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Such is the life of an Army Officer, and if you want a career as an Army Officer then the AAC is the place to do it, but if you want to fly, then join the army as a soldier and don't go to RMAS. You could join the RAF, if you have a predisposition to being chippy, supercilious and living in a mess that looks like a downmarket conference centre, or why not try the navy.

I like your posts, ChristopherRobin.

They are nearly as well written as mine!

I think it's you that's a little bit chippy though.

Do you post on the AAC forum www.spanker.com ?
 
Old 31st Jan 2004, 21:06
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Talk Split - I thought you pushed the Sea King as opposed to 'push for it'. Still, a balanced arguement!

C'Robin - as always comments from the trench, no surprise really from the 'soldier 1st brigade'.

Basically take your pick, become a professional pilot and stay in hotels OR wear green, become as bitter as C'Robin and look at the Apache's in storage....... until someone else gets them.

Best of luck
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Old 1st Feb 2004, 20:34
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Thumbs up

The inference that RAF Pilots are more professional than their senior service colleagues is very last year. Sadly, from the blinkered confines of the desert, dorks like Sandchopper still look to raise a bite. However I'm more interested in the Rotorhub piece that puts Army Apache training in context so I would very much doubt whether anyone else will 'get them'.


First UK Apaches ready for crews to convert to role
Defence Helicopter (23 Jan)
23 January

The first of the British Army’s line-squadron Apache AH Mk1 crews are nearly ready to begin their Conversion to Role training. As one of three squadrons in the 9th Regiment Army Air Corps (AAC), the 656 Squadron crews will complete their Conversion to Type training at Middle Wallop by the end of March ‘03 and then move north.

Their eight Apache AH Mk1s are already in situ at 9 AAC’s base at Dishforth in the North East of England. Each aircraft has already been put through extensive acceptance by the squadron’s REME maintainers and are being flown extensively by the resident Air Manoeuvre Training Advisory Team (AMTAT).

“Rumours of the Apache’s digital electronics package not working are plain wrong,” says Captain Kevin Hainey, the man who’s job it is to make all such things work. He reports that the aircraft are communicating across both non secure and secure channels between aircraft and the ground - ‘secure has often come out on top.’ One instance saw an Apache hovering at 15 feet over the Otterburn training area talking on VHF FM secure to an Apache at 500 feet over Dishforth, a distance over 100km.

Major David Amlôt, SO2, Ops adds: “We are using the IDM between aircraft. We are not yet established with a ground based IDM radio in the Regiment, they are coming in to service with various components of the Army this year, notably Forward Air Controllers. Trials have already been conducted with Apache using the IDM to talk to these ground stations and other platforms.”

By mid-January ‘04 there were eight Apaches on-site with others arriving at the rate of one every fortnight. They are being housed in renovated hangers, part of a £48 million investment by the Ministry of Defence to transform this ex-RAF station up to the standards required by a front-line attack helicopter unit. The newly built training centre is the pinnacle of this investment. Managed by the Westland/Boeing joint-venture company Aviation Training International Limited (ATIL), it houses the AAC’s only Field Deployable Simulators.

- Andrew Drwiega


First UK Apaches ready for crews to convert to role
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Old 2nd Feb 2004, 10:13
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Rotary Pongo,

You are right it only takes us 6 months because we miss out the important lessons like how to cheat on gameshows and use the internet for sexy strip shows. I'm not sure what the Puma comment was about, but the AAC really don't have a leg to stand on at the moment. Lynx are part timers and the Gazelles have all been sent home from the gulf, whilst we mop up all your work on both fronts. At Shawbury the Army and Airforce do have a different ethos, but I noticed a huge amount of you getting chopped whilst whinging about us not ironing creases in our flying suits. I even knew some that starched them adding fuel to the already fire degraded suits! Not to mention all the punch ups that again reinforced your high Officer qualities. I think you need to dry your eyes and stop whining about the RAF before you come to your senses and cross over like so many already have.

PS It's Linton not Lynton you arse!
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Old 2nd Feb 2004, 14:56
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Nevertheless, anyone who drives from Valley or Linton-on-Ouse to Shawbury and then puts on flying kit to go to the OM bar is indeed a total dork! Much as I used to share the RN's opinion of our blunty-blue RAC patrolman's uniform, I was surprised to learn on the JTIDS course at Boulmer that FJ crews actually used to drive up from places like Coningsby and then do the course in their green romper suits...

Shame that the awful RAF uniform is so shabby; the only other time I had to wear a V-necked pullover with a tie as my uniform was at prep school. Even my CCF (pongo section) uniform was smarter than the blunty blue rig.
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Old 2nd Feb 2004, 16:50
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Zerospeed - people in glass houses shouldn't play with frag grenades. The people you mention were from different regiments and corps so we couldn't give a crap about them because the Army is a collection of regiments and corps, not really a homogenous organisation.

The RAF, on the other hand is a homogenous organisation and there have been plenty of dirt from there - I can't remember his name, but who was the 2-faced b@st@rd that put out the standards of behaviour booklet while having an adulterous affair? He was definitely RAF though. And what about the celebrated RAF officer that I learned about in this very forum that ejected from a vulcan for no good reason leaving his back-seaters to die?

Turning to how busy you guys are in the desert, one could find it simple to contrast that with your performance in N.I. where you will find a lot of people prepared to discuss the "effectiveness" of the RAF's role there where the weather isn't as balmy. Everyone knows that the Lynx is crap in the desert because we bought it from Westland's - that's not the fault of the guys operating it who I absolutely guarantee you are living and fighting in much tougher conditions than you'll ever see in your puff.

So if you want to sling that sort of mud, I'm sure we could go on and on ad infinitum, if not ad astra.

...But we're here to advise Foz2 about what his options are, not parry fairly ineffectual and uninteresting banter from you.

Foz2 - here is my advice if you want to do really good operational flying and be an officer and fly the Apache: Join the AAC, transfer to the Navy when you spot the deskjob hoving into view, fly junglies and come back to the AAC on attachment.

It's worked for a few guys already - so why not give it a go? The AAC, like any decent medieval feudal society, rewards disloyalty by offering sweeteners to come back and stay loyal. The ordinary serfs, sticking with the Corps through thick and thin, get what they're given, and because they don't complain, aren't given very much.

Some may call me bitter, but I don't think that I am (even though I clearly sound like I am). I made my choice, and no, I don't fly any more, but hope to again soon. My desk job is one of the very best I could have hoped for it's interesting and varied - it's just that I'd rather be flying and where's the harm in that?

I have had a terrific time soldiering in the Army Air Corps and made some good calls in my career, some bad. Why am I still in the AAC? Like any good relationship sometimes you really love it and sometimes you totally hate it. Isn't that better than meandering along in amiable tolerance for the rest of your life?
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