correct - Zero clearly hasn't served in NI or he wouldn't stick his neck out so far, but as someone said, back to the point - Foz never mind the flying, if you want to be able to put up with a few years in the service then for christ's sake join one with a sense of humour.

On the evidence above, if you've bothered to read through it, you might be forgiven for thinking that rabid zeroes like, er, zero might be the sort of person you'd kill yourself to get away from if he was in your squadron.

And imagine being under the direct command of a bitter and twisted desk jockey:yuk: , who can be compared to a penguin in that he may have wings but he will never fly again:p ...............now where would we find one of those sad sorry specimens in here:p

Peoples perceptions of who did what and when will always be clouded, however when you look at the effectivness of the platforms we operated during the height of the troubles in NI you could not be blamed for thinking us in blue did an awful lot of the work. I think back to the Wokka in that sh!thole S Armagh and it's contribution to the reconstruction of most of the infrastructure. The fact that the Puma, by virtue of it,s superior lifting capability and bigger cabin size was the workhorse on a daily basis while the Lynx carried the QRF.

It has to be accepted that if you operate a fleet of mini cabs you will always appear to be doing less than the outfit operating the fleet of transporters............irrespective of hoursflown/daysworked:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

ok - if you insist in continuing...you really are into a "mine's bigger than yours" argument...

Most balanced observers who spent any time in the province know that the Lynx was there to provide fire support to protect the Puma - we all know that firing practice for puma loadies was desultory at best, and a dereliction of duty at worst - I'd go into more detail to really show up your "professionalism" if this wasn't an unclassified forum - but people who worked there will know what I mean.

So you could lift more in one go - so what? If that's your yardstick of effectiveness in NI then it's hardly any wonder that you were a distant second choice when something other than humping and dumping was required.

And who could forget the 'hilarious' incident when the puma loadie (no pun intended here), thinking he would be really keen and actually load his weapon, managed to stitch a burst of 7.62 straight through 25,000 litres of aviation fuel because he didn't know how to work it? remember that one?

Yep - you're right, the SH boys did a magnificent job of transporting men and materiel out there. But that doesn't detract from the Lynx boys who, let's face it - and judging by your comments above I think you agree - did any proper military flying tasks that needed to be done.

Keep on truckin' always broken.

CR,
It's just too easy:ok: Firstly as a qualified gunnery instructor I spent a fair amount of my time ensuring the laid down currencies were maintained. Our lords and masters set down the periodicity of training and we adhered to that.

Now if you really want to talk about inept weapon handling:p In my time out there I can remember the fence at B'brook being sniped at on more than one occasion by various door gunners:p Bearing in mind the SH Crewman carried out all his weapon drills unsupervised where as his Army couterpart was under the direct control of the Aircraft Commander what does that tell us about your weapon handling prowess:yuk:

Or remember the demonstration of Lynx firepower near X the day the Puma took incoming :ok: 2 x Lynx chased the platform, a flatbed truck as i recall so hardly a feckin GTI:rolleyes: , rained down their combined awesome array of firepower...................and hit **** all. Thank the lord you in the Army train so well on your weapons:ok: Gave us a very warm and fuzzy feeling afterwards!

Or the infamous cross border shoot when some cupcake, probably spacially unaware and forgot the basic ROI. Could sling more mud if you like but I think this will be sufficient:ok:

"But that doesn't detract from the Lynx boys who, let's face it - and judging by your comments above I think you agree - did any proper military flying tasks that needed to be done." ......... er please see above!
:p

Still think my days out there were most enjoyed when i was able to observe the likes of "Big Chas" grinning knowingly at a steady stream of Ruperts as they made yet another inept decision. Thankfully the AAC had loads of proffesional and extremly capable SNCO pilots.......... and only a few non SNCO part timers....... carry on typing sir:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

CR and BOA,

I'm sorry, but you are both mistaken. I have served both in NI and the Gulf. I also feel that because I now train the 'newly qualified pilots', I do have a little authority to post. You are of course correct, NI is very quiet these days, which makes it all the more depressing for the AAC when it can't cover its committment in S Armagh. I'm still very interested to hear exactly where the AAC is actually doing any work? You guys sound like you're newly unqualified:ok:

The man who shot up the fuel tanks had his mistake avenged, when an aux. fuel tank jumped on him in a crash and took him out for almost a year:{

I also think always broken's story about the flatbed and the 2 lynxs has a small error in it. I believe they did hit one thing..... themselves:eek: A 7.62 round was found embedded in one lynx, even though the vietpikey had not used 7.62 weapons:oh:

'the lynx boys who .... did any proper military flying tasks', not if wasn't in S. Armagh they didn't. I remember discussing with the RQHI how he had to fail a pilot on an annual check, as when asked to depart to the north was so maxed out he couldn't identify the SRP and came straight home.:\

Boys, come now, you could swap stories from now until xmas and it will not make a difference. Got quite a few myself but not whilst this subject has detracted into a mud slinging contest.

Believe me, over the years we have all done a pretty good job. Yes, plenty and I mean plenty of things have gone wrong, some serious but we have tried to learn from those mistakes and just occasionally had a chuckle at others misfortunes.

I dont like to take sides albeit, all my flying has been in green but I did have the good fortune to fly in the province from 1975 to 2002 on all types and types long gone. Can I suggest all those now involved read the subject again from the start and perhaps start again. We can say the same things but lets leave the venom out. I'm sure we are all familiar with "you should not throw stones in a greenhouse"

Chill

Always broken.........

you left so much out:

Declaring more aircraft than actually exist on a daily basis.
Using crews on UK leave to bulk up the numbers and then complaining when they had to be used.
Frantic scrambling to find a map of anywhere other than 'Bandit Country'. Even when they find the map, forgetting to use it and bonging the border (a bit unfair this one!).
Complaining that the RAF worked 21/7, even though they wouldn've liked to do so themselves.

We could of course go on. As for the BFI shooting? At least the RAF managed to hit something..........

Credit where it is due to the Lynx chaps in the south though, they generally managed to find R850 without GPS!

Hook set, waiting for the reply

:ok:

Foz2,

Almost forgot.

Despite all of the light hearted banter that you have read, or maybe chosen to ignore, it's up to you to make the choice. Research all 3 Services and make an informed decision.......

With any luck you'll have a great time.:O

STANDBY!! STANDBY!!

Broken in Wilts,

No wonder your always BROKE, your always P$ssed. As for alcohol induced spoiling mistooks, what in the gods name were you on about when you said about the basic ROI, your right the Republic of Ireland is basic. What you probably meant was basic ROE which means Rules of Engagement, ask your loadie for more information as he should know with his weapons experience. Ha! Ha! my Ar$e.
Having served as the mighty SACSA (Supreme Aviation Commander South Armagh) I think your getting ideas above your station my old chappie, firstly the Loadies did not even load their weapons and the reason being it was probably too dangerous when you were carrying all the mailsacks and rations back and fore to the towers while the MIGHTY TWIN TORQUE TANDEM TEAM were fighting the enemy. Your out of your league old boy, now back in your cage and back to the G & T's.

Foz 2

Sorry matey got carried away there, good luck whatever you choose to do.

88B,
I am the loadie and it's been "7 fantastic fixed wing travelling round the world having the time of my life" years since I had the displeasure of operating in the province...........hence my typo:ok: but apart form that very well spotted.

We did load our weapons but were not so stupid as to EVER move the working parts........apart from when we collected it from the armoury:p Theory being that if you don't move the working parts the fuc@in thing can't go bang:rolleyes:, and you get to keep that months wages. A theory that worked extremely well for me during my time in province:p and obviously not something subscribed to by our cammed up brethren:p, hence the multitude of little perforations in the Bessbrook fence.

"while the MIGHTY TWIN TORQUE TANDEM TEAM were fighting the enemy":yuk:

So when exactly was this and, apart from each other, what the **** did you ever hit..........apart from the Republic:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

CR... I have to take exception with your posts, what is wrong with you, acting like a corned animal and snapping comments at anyone who dares to criticise your views. If you pick with the crows, you risk being shot at...
The loadie who leaded the petrol 'didn't know how to work his gun'?? He is worth 10 of you my man. He helped me get through my first tour when I was struggling to make the grade. (I'm retired now) He made what is commonly known as 'a mistake'. People do that, believe it or not. You may discover this fact and wish you had kept quiet.
The vulcan pilot is not my favourite person, but he lives with that decision every day. He doesn't need you to give him a hard time. Have some decency and leave him alone.
One thing I will back up, is the professionalism of all 3 services. They are all different and take the P**s, but they all do a good job. I joined the the Lynx shootup party in S Armagh minutes after things happened. The crews were superb that day and did everything right other than hit the car. We then all did a very exciting follow up and made some arrests. That night we bantered each other rotten. But it was in jest!!! Learn that banter is healthy, insulting is not......... :ouch:

is it me - or has anyone not yet noticed that the most rabid posts have come from people other than myself?

And the loadie who DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO WORK HIS GUN - he "made a mistake" - poor diddums - we call that a negligent discharge in the army and no one gets, or deserves, any sympathy for it, no matter how many tree-hugging, shoulder-crying focus groups he has led.

If you go back to my very first post, I mentioned that some people on these forums think that it's for RAF only - and I have that impression more strongly than ever - particularly when people like you, Jayteeto are happy to criticise me but not others for similar behaviour.

I am happy to take the criticism - my shoulders are broad, and I don't generally take offence at words unlike many who so clearly do - but if you're going to criticise, look further than just one person.

...and if not - bring it on - but I don't snap at people who "dare to criticise [my] views".

I just like baiting people with thin skins - plenty of them around, too.

Cr old fella,

You start with........ "is it me - or has anyone not yet noticed that the most rabid posts have come from people other than myself?"

Then follow up with your next, in a long list of well balanced comments ............"And the loadie who DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO WORK HIS GUN - he "made a mistake" - poor diddums - we call that a negligent discharge in the army and no one gets, or deserves, any sympathy for it, no matter how many tree-hugging, shoulder-crying focus groups he has led"....................You truely are a Stroker:ok:

It's called an "ND" in the RAF as well and he would have been financially walloped, I seem to recall a months wages being the going fine when when I was last in province. for it, but as he didn't do it on purpose we also accept that he made a mistake.

We don't, thank ****:p , subscribe to the Army method of man management, and based on the hostility of your posts in here I thank the lord my dad refused to let me join the Army at the age of 16 cos working for the likes of you must be a barrel of larf's.

So in answer to your opening question you stop steaming in here with foam dripping from your fangs and we will stop answering you in the manner befitting your outbursts:ok: Nuff said

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

"negligent" means doing something through carelessness - it has nothing to do with whether or not it was done on purpose - hence the term.

How you can infer my man-management skills or otherwise from application of one of the most clearcut sections of QRs is beyond me.

Clearly your dad kept you from joining the army because he realised that you were a bit of a sensitive chap. And I agree with you - thank the lord he did stop you from joining the army - I wouldn't want someone working for me who called someone a "stroker" just because he disagreed with his point of view.

- insults - last resort of someone who wasn't any good at giving or taking banter in the first place.

CR,
Good grief:rolleyes: "- insults - last resort of someone who wasn't any good at giving or taking banter in the first place."

Go back and read your posts fella and you may come to understand why so many of us on here have taken issue with you:ok: Hardly a paragraph goes by without you directly or indirectly insulting someone so it's a bit pot and kettle i think.

And as for "And what about the celebrated RAF officer that I learned about in this very forum that a vulcan for no good reason leaving his back-seaters to die?"

That sort of remark is truely scurrilous, should never be mentioned in these forums and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I lost 3 friends in one incident during my NI times and I have my own beliefs as to why they so needlessly died but would NEVER EVER mention those views in here or any other public forum:}

According to the Encarta dictionary the verb insult means to "say or do something suggesting a low opinion of somebody or something" Works for me:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Do you want to give it a rest and stop dragging Foz's post into the usual bitching session?

I would imagine Foz is now on short finals to the bleedin Navy!

Nice one ABIW.

By the way... Always Broken in Wilts. Are you the loadie formerly known to us as rude crewman? If you are, hello!! How are things going? We need to have a beer sometime. After a few years at CFS Shawbury, I concluded that some of the youngsters coming through miss a vital part of military development.
The crewroom.... The apprenticeship...
It just doesn't happen as much due to ops/dets etc. The men and women are just as skilful as ever, but are thrust forward too early sometimes. CR, yes I agree on the description of negligent discharge. But in the aviation world, this happens. Not just to the RAF either. But the aim of a good officer and supervisor is to think of ways to stop errors happening again, not slagging off those who did it. Believe me, it COULD happen to you. (errors, not just NDs). All that happens to someone who has your attitude is that their men just 'forget' to report errors/overtorques/exceeded limits. Risking the next persons life. It isn't right, but it is fact. Help, not berate, please!

Fozz, join the RM (commission first!) and then go Junglie, you'll like it.

Jayteeto,
Might be :ok: Now occasionaly refered to as lewd loadie:p

Wild stab in the dark but based on your "handle" are you by any chance form the North East with a bit of Baldrick in you?:p If I am right nice to see your common sense approach has not changed. I can get meself on a "J" next time one comes to Strawbury for an end of course do then we can certainly enjoy a beer or two. On that front let me know when your future grad's are and if tasking permits maybe we can pop up for an overnighter:ok:

BO.......At least he will meet a better class of bloke there:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

ABIW - you said that "That sort of remark is truely scurrilous, should never be mentioned in these forums and you should be ashamed of yourself."

Why? - it was a big point of discussion in these forums a few years back - and that's how I heard about it.

You strike me, "fella", as somone who is very easily insulted and I therefore refer you to my last remark about why it's just as well you didn't join the army because you wouldn't have lasted five minutes if you bleated every time you heard something you didn't like.

And "so many" of you have taken issue with what I've said? oh really? about 3 or 4 people, at most, and believe me, those are the sort of statistics that won't keep me awake at night.

So don't take the moral high ground with me. You are clearly unable to spot the difference between being personally insulted by an oblique reference to the organisation to which you belong and an actual personal insult.

I've delivered plenty of the former, (and what's wrong with that?) but you have proved yourself to be a rather clumsy exponent of the latter.

It's not as if inter-service banter is anything new on PPRune - but for some reason it really gets up your nose.

And anyway - why would Foz want advice from you on becoming a pilot? - you're a loadie. I wouldn't dream on giving someone advice on something I knew nothing about, apart from you getting a life, of course.

jayteeto
i presume that "this" is an anagram of sorts.......:rolleyes:

ABIW
trouble with trying to get a beer with jayteeto is the amount of unsocial hours he spends pounding his airborne beat! Mind you, at least he knows his days off months/years in advance now .... not even CFS could always manage that! :D