The End of the AEO
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The End of the AEO
As of 1 Apr 03 it would appear that I am now a WSO.
Last year I was referred to as a rear crew officer (Not even aircrew any more....even though I can and have commanded, supervised all branches of aircrew and am in the direct line management of aircrew).
Checking with the desk officers at PMA they have confirmed that rear crew officers now comprise ALM and Air Eng officers (Having flown on most RAF types which have Air Engs I am certain most of them sat at the front of the aircraft).
So what you may ask, if there is now truly only one WSO branch why do I received less flying pay than other WSOs and also why are my PAS colleagues being discriminated against having a lower capped level of increments.
Last year I was referred to as a rear crew officer (Not even aircrew any more....even though I can and have commanded, supervised all branches of aircrew and am in the direct line management of aircrew).
Checking with the desk officers at PMA they have confirmed that rear crew officers now comprise ALM and Air Eng officers (Having flown on most RAF types which have Air Engs I am certain most of them sat at the front of the aircraft).
So what you may ask, if there is now truly only one WSO branch why do I received less flying pay than other WSOs and also why are my PAS colleagues being discriminated against having a lower capped level of increments.
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Deal with it sweetheart
All the Airforce is doing is treating you like it has your knockers
.
So may I pass on the advice given to me by my AEO "it is just the way it is if you dont like it well you know what to do".
Reap what you sow.
Charlie sends
All the Airforce is doing is treating you like it has your knockers
.So may I pass on the advice given to me by my AEO "it is just the way it is if you dont like it well you know what to do".
Reap what you sow.
Charlie sends
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Phoney
Does that mean you have to change your brevet?
In fact shouldn't ALL AEO's change their brevet to
reflect the changing times and to present a more
up-to-date image to the new WSOps coming through (who
will be wearing the new brevet)?
Does that mean you have to change your brevet?
In fact shouldn't ALL AEO's change their brevet to
reflect the changing times and to present a more
up-to-date image to the new WSOps coming through (who
will be wearing the new brevet)?
Gentleman Aviator
No one will be obliged to change his/her brevets. The one you were awarded can be worn as long as you like, but since 1 Apr all newly qualified erstwhile non-pilot aircrew (will that do Tone?) have been awarded the new brevet.
Doesn't anyone read RAF News? ....
.......silly me, of course they don't!
Doesn't anyone read RAF News? ....
.......silly me, of course they don't!
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TH
I beg to differ. I Qualified for my brevet many years ago but, as I have sold my soul, I have been 'ordered' to change my brevet to the 'new style.' This will be the case for all Non-Commissioned Aircrew that get Commissioned into the WSO branch.
This has happened to a number of us already and we're not too happy about the desision. Tried to seek sense but to no avail, we have a period of time to 'comply.'
I have a mixed view about changing over. On one hand it would fall into line with the introduction of WSOps arriving on the squadrons. On the other hand, I feel agrieved that I'm having to change it against my will. It's like graduating from University with a BSc and then several years later being told you have to return your diploma for a BA instead (or vice-versa!)
I beg to differ. I Qualified for my brevet many years ago but, as I have sold my soul, I have been 'ordered' to change my brevet to the 'new style.' This will be the case for all Non-Commissioned Aircrew that get Commissioned into the WSO branch.
This has happened to a number of us already and we're not too happy about the desision. Tried to seek sense but to no avail, we have a period of time to 'comply.'
I have a mixed view about changing over. On one hand it would fall into line with the introduction of WSOps arriving on the squadrons. On the other hand, I feel agrieved that I'm having to change it against my will. It's like graduating from University with a BSc and then several years later being told you have to return your diploma for a BA instead (or vice-versa!)
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Just the sort of answers I was expecting:
Charlie Luncher
NCA wish to be treated the same as Officer's so watch your six. Some NCA may and will be more equal than others. Drymen are better than wetmen who are all worse than Air Signallers. Therefore, they should receive pay according to worth.
Hertzsprung Russell
I did and still do stand up for NCA terms of service. I am glad to hear you will be supporting us. NB comment above.
teeteringhead
If you believe what is written in the RAF News you need therapy.
The remove/ change of a brevet is done above Airforce Board Level. Whilst lower echelons may wish to remove/ change your brevet it is only HM the Queen who may do so.
Mightycrewseven
Having been on all current Nimrod Sqns bar CXX you should know 3, 6 and 9 are always mightier than 7.
Check QRs I believe my comment above is true.
Keep smiling
Remember Kinloss is natures way of stopping singlies from breeding.
Charlie Luncher
NCA wish to be treated the same as Officer's so watch your six. Some NCA may and will be more equal than others. Drymen are better than wetmen who are all worse than Air Signallers. Therefore, they should receive pay according to worth.
Hertzsprung Russell
I did and still do stand up for NCA terms of service. I am glad to hear you will be supporting us. NB comment above.
teeteringhead
If you believe what is written in the RAF News you need therapy.
The remove/ change of a brevet is done above Airforce Board Level. Whilst lower echelons may wish to remove/ change your brevet it is only HM the Queen who may do so.
Mightycrewseven
Having been on all current Nimrod Sqns bar CXX you should know 3, 6 and 9 are always mightier than 7.
Check QRs I believe my comment above is true.
Keep smiling
Remember Kinloss is natures way of stopping singlies from breeding.
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PT
One thing I did before I left was to sit down with the review team and iron out that NCA are not officers or airmen but they are NCA and should have a term of service written for them not the hash that was used to discriminate them.
Aeo's rode the coat tails of the O aircrew review, so dont get me started on your paid what your worth as chocolate fireguards aint worth that much out here anyhow
.
As for those who wish to be treated as Blue Bloods well go to Cranditz and dance with the devil as the young lad M7 has done.
Dude hope the pork pie is settling in well and your arse is getting nice and shiny with the desk warriors in brisssle.
One thing I did before I left was to sit down with the review team and iron out that NCA are not officers or airmen but they are NCA and should have a term of service written for them not the hash that was used to discriminate them.
Aeo's rode the coat tails of the O aircrew review, so dont get me started on your paid what your worth as chocolate fireguards aint worth that much out here anyhow
.As for those who wish to be treated as Blue Bloods well go to Cranditz and dance with the devil as the young lad M7 has done.
Dude hope the pork pie is settling in well and your arse is getting nice and shiny with the desk warriors in brisssle.
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Mighty/7,
If you have completed, or will be completing, your AEO/WSO training as of 1 Apr 03 you will not be qualifying as an AEO but as a WSO, hence the new brevet. The same would happen if you went for pilot or nav 
, you are in a new aircrew branch and therfore wear the brevet for that branch.
MadMark!!!
I Qualified for my brevet many years ago but, as I have sold my soul, I have been 'ordered' to change my brevet to the 'new style.' This will be the case for all Non-Commissioned Aircrew that get Commissioned into the WSO branch.
, you are in a new aircrew branch and therfore wear the brevet for that branch.MadMark!!!
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Mad_Mark
Your logic rings true, however, those of us in this situation pose the following arguement:
We have completed IOT and not conducted a professional training course i.e. WSO after which we would THEN graduate with a WSO brevet. Our professional training was completed years ago resulting in the award of an AE brevet.
As I said before, I'm not overly fussed as to which brevet I wear as I will still be sat on my ar*e here in Bristol doing the same job regardless. I'm just being bl**dy minded because I've been told I HAVE to change my brevet, which, if you know me, I don't like because I feel I have good reason to keep the brevet that I qualified with.
I agree that those AEOps/ALMs/Air Sigs that go on to get a Commission in a different flying branch i.e. pilot or WSO (Nav) and subsequently complete the relevant training course would THEN graduate with a different brevet.
Over to you!
If you have completed, or will be completing, your AEO/WSO training as of 1 Apr 03 you will not be qualifying as an AEO but as a WSO, hence the new brevet.
We have completed IOT and not conducted a professional training course i.e. WSO after which we would THEN graduate with a WSO brevet. Our professional training was completed years ago resulting in the award of an AE brevet.
As I said before, I'm not overly fussed as to which brevet I wear as I will still be sat on my ar*e here in Bristol doing the same job regardless. I'm just being bl**dy minded because I've been told I HAVE to change my brevet, which, if you know me, I don't like because I feel I have good reason to keep the brevet that I qualified with.
I agree that those AEOps/ALMs/Air Sigs that go on to get a Commission in a different flying branch i.e. pilot or WSO (Nav) and subsequently complete the relevant training course would THEN graduate with a different brevet.
Over to you!
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Phoney Tony
A colleague in the RAF SAR Force has for years suffered an insulting pay scale. It would appear that at least one SAR location has the role of Radar Operator filled by; a Nav, an Aeop and an ALM. Aircrew are aircrew end of story. If you want to run with the “my badges are worth more than your badges” argument then you are a fool who’s now getting his just reward. Not only that but you help in keeping others less fortunate from getting even close to parity.
Pay 2000 Low Band Chimp.
So what you may ask, if there is now truly only one WSO branch why do I received less flying pay than other WSOs and also why are my PAS colleagues being discriminated against having a lower capped level of increments
Pay 2000 Low Band Chimp.
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Mighty/7,
In that case, as far as I am aware, you are fully entitled to continue to wear your AE brevet until completion of professional training (minus any OCU). I even understand that if someone went for a commision in a ground branch they are entitled to continue to wear their brevet - I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
Now you have got me wondering, not who I thought you were 
MadMark!!!
We have completed IOT and not conducted a professional training course
...as I will still be sat on my ar*e here in Bristol doing the same job regardless
MadMark!!!
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CL
Ref
(Aeo's rode the coat tails of the O aircrew review, so dont get me started on your paid what your worth as chocolate fireguards aint worth that much out here anyhow)
I know as a branch we have some dead wood but so does the AEOp world. If you wish me to quote names I can.
The AEO branch is very small and as such was not given the full amount of scrutiny it probable deserved.
The MR2 force has many very good AEOs serving as captains and, I am sure you are aware, others, supporting weaker/ newer captains from other branches.
Looking outside of the MR2 force we have AEOs in the mission commander role on the other Nimrods and in the tactical director role on the E3D. Having seen both in action I can confirm these guys do a great job in direct competition with Navs (Mainly FJ background) and Fighter Controllers (No Comment).
Lump these all together with the other AEOs fulfilling the SENTINEL role….yes there are some already involved, along with those on the GSU (If its still called that), 42 Sqn, 55 Sqn and numerous staff tours at Gp, STC, MoD and PJHQ, and I think the number of bad AEOs would actually be a small number in proportion to the total. Most of the bad AEOs I know are still at Kinloss where they are ‘assisted’ by good AEOps.
Please do not tar us all with the same brush.
Ref
(Aeo's rode the coat tails of the O aircrew review, so dont get me started on your paid what your worth as chocolate fireguards aint worth that much out here anyhow)
I know as a branch we have some dead wood but so does the AEOp world. If you wish me to quote names I can.
The AEO branch is very small and as such was not given the full amount of scrutiny it probable deserved.
The MR2 force has many very good AEOs serving as captains and, I am sure you are aware, others, supporting weaker/ newer captains from other branches.
Looking outside of the MR2 force we have AEOs in the mission commander role on the other Nimrods and in the tactical director role on the E3D. Having seen both in action I can confirm these guys do a great job in direct competition with Navs (Mainly FJ background) and Fighter Controllers (No Comment).
Lump these all together with the other AEOs fulfilling the SENTINEL role….yes there are some already involved, along with those on the GSU (If its still called that), 42 Sqn, 55 Sqn and numerous staff tours at Gp, STC, MoD and PJHQ, and I think the number of bad AEOs would actually be a small number in proportion to the total. Most of the bad AEOs I know are still at Kinloss where they are ‘assisted’ by good AEOps.
Please do not tar us all with the same brush.
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Once awarded a Brevet, it's yours for ever as far as I know. I can remember stories of L.A.C.s with Pilots wings and big medals. Demobbed after the War as Sgt. and re-enlisted when it didn't work out.
Mike W
Mike W
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A few courses behind mine at EGXI we had a Flt Eng who was subsequently chopped after gaining his C cat. He returned to his ground trade as a S Eq Ftr as a Cpl. He continued to wear his E brevet.
We also has 2 AEOps (This will date me) who were court martialed and busted to the ranks. For a while one of them worked in SHQ as a SAC wearing his AE brevet.
We also has 2 AEOps (This will date me) who were court martialed and busted to the ranks. For a while one of them worked in SHQ as a SAC wearing his AE brevet.
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Phoney,
Sorry old chap but you've hit a wrong nerve at the end of a crap week! Why the "(No Comment)" comment in reference to FCs? Got a snag with our performance on the jet? Bring it on, son - I'm in the mood for a good scrap!
Second thoughts, pehaps it was meant as just a bit of fun banter, I'll leave it with you to think about. Your move.
Sorry old chap but you've hit a wrong nerve at the end of a crap week! Why the "(No Comment)" comment in reference to FCs? Got a snag with our performance on the jet? Bring it on, son - I'm in the mood for a good scrap!
Second thoughts, pehaps it was meant as just a bit of fun banter, I'll leave it with you to think about. Your move.
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Calm down Trickrat!!!
However, Phoney is somewhat misinformed regarding his info on E-3D TDs. Right now, the E-3D fleet has 9 FC (including the STANEVAL TD), 3 AEO and 2 Nav TDs. None of the nav TDs are ex FJ; one is an ex 849 Obs who saw the light and swapped to Lt Blue, the other is an elderly gentleman from Shacks who smells of wee and dribbles a lot.
We do have a few ex FJ navs (including OC 8 Sqn), but they are mostly still surveillance types on the jet apart from one who's a WC. Most AEO's have also remained within surveillance, although there is one AEO WC (again he's a fossil).
Of the E-3D community execs other than OC8, OC 23 is an ex F3 pilot, the 23 Sqn flt cdrs are 2 x FC (including the Boss of the OCU), and 1 x ex C-130 nav, the 8 Sqn flt cdrs are 2 x FC, 1 x AEO, and 1 x pilot, and OC STANEVAL is an Eng.
I have no problem with AEOs, they're excellent for making fun of on a crew, but get your facts straight Tony old chap!
Regards,
M2
However, Phoney is somewhat misinformed regarding his info on E-3D TDs. Right now, the E-3D fleet has 9 FC (including the STANEVAL TD), 3 AEO and 2 Nav TDs. None of the nav TDs are ex FJ; one is an ex 849 Obs who saw the light and swapped to Lt Blue, the other is an elderly gentleman from Shacks who smells of wee and dribbles a lot.
We do have a few ex FJ navs (including OC 8 Sqn), but they are mostly still surveillance types on the jet apart from one who's a WC. Most AEO's have also remained within surveillance, although there is one AEO WC (again he's a fossil).
Of the E-3D community execs other than OC8, OC 23 is an ex F3 pilot, the 23 Sqn flt cdrs are 2 x FC (including the Boss of the OCU), and 1 x ex C-130 nav, the 8 Sqn flt cdrs are 2 x FC, 1 x AEO, and 1 x pilot, and OC STANEVAL is an Eng.
I have no problem with AEOs, they're excellent for making fun of on a crew, but get your facts straight Tony old chap!
Regards,
M2