Single seat girls?
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Single seat girls?
A friend of mine (a rag packer) who worked on tornado and Harrier units insists that female aircrew/pilots are just as capable as their male counterparts in all areas of front line training/war fighting.Whilst not wishing to seem too sexist is this true? Can female pilots hold thier own (not in the biblical sense), G tolerance,map reading,bombing and air to air?
I don't think so
I don't think so
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LOATHE though I am to grace this plonker with a 2nd response, he has pressed a button.
Is this Admin Guru come back to haunt us? This level of dull, thoughtless cr@p has a smell all of its own.
Now. Monti. Poke off and don't come back.
T0$$er
Is this Admin Guru come back to haunt us? This level of dull, thoughtless cr@p has a smell all of its own.
Now. Monti. Poke off and don't come back.
T0$$er
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Muppet, there's no need for obscenities,I have been a driving instructor for ten years and in general women just aren't as good as men at a psycho motive level, and I was questioning my friends judgement as to thier abilities flying at the edge of a modern fighters envelope,as he isn't a pilot how would he know? People in this forum do the job for a living, therefore i took a wild stab in the dark that you would know more about it.This is not thoughtless crap or a trawl to see who bites, I am genuinely intrested to learn more.Now if anyone has anything more constructive to say then please, the floor is yours....
I know there are plenty of two seat fast jet ladies who have done well. But are there currently any single seat FJ ladies? CURRENTLY.
I dimly remember that there was a lady Jag pilot but seem to remember that she took a ground tour when her husband was posted overseas. I may have imagined that, mind!
Don't get me wrong, whether or not there are lady single seat FJ pilots in the RAF, those in other air forces have proved that it's not a male preserve.
Do you have to be a pompous tw@t to be a driving instructor, though?
I dimly remember that there was a lady Jag pilot but seem to remember that she took a ground tour when her husband was posted overseas. I may have imagined that, mind!
Don't get me wrong, whether or not there are lady single seat FJ pilots in the RAF, those in other air forces have proved that it's not a male preserve.
Do you have to be a pompous tw@t to be a driving instructor, though?
Monti, you've unwittingly pressed all the wrong buttons here. Also, sadly for you, this is exactly the sort of question that the less responsible members of the fourth estate ask here in an attempt to produce an 'all RAF pilots are mysoginists shocka!!!' story (or variations thereof) - this provokes a (justifably, IMHO) hostile response, as you've discovered.
The question you ask has been done to death on this forum - which, of course, you weren't to know. From the previous iterations of this question I think it would be fair to say that the general consensus of opinion supported your friend's contentions.
The question you ask has been done to death on this forum - which, of course, you weren't to know. From the previous iterations of this question I think it would be fair to say that the general consensus of opinion supported your friend's contentions.
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Monti -
This has been done to death in the past. Grimsby trawlermen have been known to be more subtle...
Why not consider this: If the USS Enterprise is capable of travelling faster than the speed of light, then why does she have anti-cols fitted?
Out, Blind!
This has been done to death in the past. Grimsby trawlermen have been known to be more subtle...
Why not consider this: If the USS Enterprise is capable of travelling faster than the speed of light, then why does she have anti-cols fitted?
Out, Blind!
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I haven't posted for a while because it is frustrating to me how this forum has been tyaken over by a few people who have nothing but aggressive cr@p to say.
Radar Muppet, you are indeed a muppet and an unpleasant one at that. Mr C Hinecap, you are just offensive.
Monti may or may not be a journalist fishing, so what. If he is do you really think that the best way to deal with him is to abuse and belittle him? Do you think that you are doing the service or yourselves a favour by dealing with a fisherman in that way? How about giving the guy a break and just answering his question? If you don't want to be bothered with lowering yourself to such a level then perhaps you should not answer at all, or perhaps you have had a bad day and you fealt it necessary to abuse some poor unsuspecting member of the public over an anonymous forum because you are fed up with how small your willy is?
Monti, in answer to your question, simply put, there are good bad and indifferent, the same as men. I have flown with a number of fast jet women and they are a mattch for their male colleagues. I believe that there is at least one female Harrier pilot at the moment as well.
Radar Muppet, you are indeed a muppet and an unpleasant one at that. Mr C Hinecap, you are just offensive.
Monti may or may not be a journalist fishing, so what. If he is do you really think that the best way to deal with him is to abuse and belittle him? Do you think that you are doing the service or yourselves a favour by dealing with a fisherman in that way? How about giving the guy a break and just answering his question? If you don't want to be bothered with lowering yourself to such a level then perhaps you should not answer at all, or perhaps you have had a bad day and you fealt it necessary to abuse some poor unsuspecting member of the public over an anonymous forum because you are fed up with how small your willy is?
Monti, in answer to your question, simply put, there are good bad and indifferent, the same as men. I have flown with a number of fast jet women and they are a mattch for their male colleagues. I believe that there is at least one female Harrier pilot at the moment as well.
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The good ones are good, the crap ones are crap, and the average ones are average.............a bit like the blokes flying fast jets really. Although not too many of the blokes I know have had their post gapped and their workload carried by their Sqn mates for a year while thay have babies.
monti - your experience as a driving instructor will have been with those who have paid for your services, but who won't have been aptitude tested. Whereas by the time our ladies reach their squadron, they will be equally capable as those of the male gender.
When I was a UAS QFI, none of our students had been aptitude tested. There were those of both sexes who would never be fit to command even a bicycle, let alone an aeroplane. But the only discernable characteristic amongst the girls which differed from the boys was that if you said to a bloke "That was an average trip", he'd think 'Great, good enough. Can go to the pub tonight'. Whereas if you said the same thing to a girl, she'd think "I need to do better than that - better do some more work". They'd also be better at helping eachother (probably stems from that weird thing they have for visiting the loo in pairs) than the boys, plus they were generally more mature.
So whether its a cockpit or a box office, it's no big deal.
When I was a UAS QFI, none of our students had been aptitude tested. There were those of both sexes who would never be fit to command even a bicycle, let alone an aeroplane. But the only discernable characteristic amongst the girls which differed from the boys was that if you said to a bloke "That was an average trip", he'd think 'Great, good enough. Can go to the pub tonight'. Whereas if you said the same thing to a girl, she'd think "I need to do better than that - better do some more work". They'd also be better at helping eachother (probably stems from that weird thing they have for visiting the loo in pairs) than the boys, plus they were generally more mature.
So whether its a cockpit or a box office, it's no big deal.
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OK. OK.
DESPERADO. AND Monti.
Yes. Perhaps a little on the offensive straight away. However, in my defence, m'lud, it was not posed as a reasonable request for information. The last couple of words were a little dismissive - no - they were VERY dismissive. That was a cheap shot which got a cheap shot back. Reasonable questions tend to get reasonable answers - even on here.
As ever, a voice of reason brought up the aptitude testing point. Also, somewhere in my addled brain, I seem to remember something about women coping with 'G' a little better than us chaps? Somebody please confirm or deny.
Yes. Perhaps a little on the offensive straight away. However, in my defence, m'lud, it was not posed as a reasonable request for information. The last couple of words were a little dismissive - no - they were VERY dismissive. That was a cheap shot which got a cheap shot back. Reasonable questions tend to get reasonable answers - even on here.
As ever, a voice of reason brought up the aptitude testing point. Also, somewhere in my addled brain, I seem to remember something about women coping with 'G' a little better than us chaps? Somebody please confirm or deny.
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Guys (and Gals),
Whether he intended to or not Monti certainly got a few good bites.
Let's face it, 99% of the male (chauvinist and non chauvinist) population at some time in their lives have something derogatory to say about female car drivers. I would have thought it only natural therefore that Mr Average in civvy street would wonder about the reasoning in letting ladies fly fast jets.
To the deeply affronted I say - Chill out - no real harm done.
Whether he intended to or not Monti certainly got a few good bites.
Let's face it, 99% of the male (chauvinist and non chauvinist) population at some time in their lives have something derogatory to say about female car drivers. I would have thought it only natural therefore that Mr Average in civvy street would wonder about the reasoning in letting ladies fly fast jets.
To the deeply affronted I say - Chill out - no real harm done.
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No Desperado...
I will pass info and advice where appropriate but this case clearly isn't in my opinion. Much has been written on this forum in the past re this and other similar topics. If indeed a journo he/she is, then a few investigative skills will unearth all. I admire the likes of BEAgs et all who can endlessly respond without ire, but the info is out there anyway, as is the evidence in the form of those ladies doing an admirable job. So there....
I will pass info and advice where appropriate but this case clearly isn't in my opinion. Much has been written on this forum in the past re this and other similar topics. If indeed a journo he/she is, then a few investigative skills will unearth all. I admire the likes of BEAgs et all who can endlessly respond without ire, but the info is out there anyway, as is the evidence in the form of those ladies doing an admirable job. So there....
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Facts,facts,facts - so much more boring than random obsenities and the dogged battle of the sexes. However,
There are plenty of female aircrew going through Valley I believe, they are doing just as well as the guys.
I can think of two or three female QWI and QWI leaders currently in post on a variety of ac types.
Even a girl on the latest Hover Jet QWI course!
So that's it Monti - hide under your desk, there are wimmin everywhere.
There are plenty of female aircrew going through Valley I believe, they are doing just as well as the guys.
I can think of two or three female QWI and QWI leaders currently in post on a variety of ac types.
Even a girl on the latest Hover Jet QWI course!
So that's it Monti - hide under your desk, there are wimmin everywhere.
To add another aspect to this debate, I would offer the view that some women ARE up to the challenge of military flying, but not all. Its just a small percentage compared to men.
I think the problem lies more with the recruitment/training hierarchy in the RAF who have recently made much more effort to get a female through to the front-line than a male.
I know of females chopped from rotary BFT/AFT who got immediate multi-engine re-streams..... at the same time as other (male) pilots chopped from AFT, OCFs and sqns were unceremoniously thrown out of the Branch.
That may be a problem with the top brass I hear you say, and not with women as a whole.... maybe so. But it doesn't mean that the same number of women out of a thousand (for example) are as suitable as their male equivalents to become aircrew.
If that were not true, then the ratio of male/female pilots would be 50:50!
I think the problem lies more with the recruitment/training hierarchy in the RAF who have recently made much more effort to get a female through to the front-line than a male.
I know of females chopped from rotary BFT/AFT who got immediate multi-engine re-streams..... at the same time as other (male) pilots chopped from AFT, OCFs and sqns were unceremoniously thrown out of the Branch.
That may be a problem with the top brass I hear you say, and not with women as a whole.... maybe so. But it doesn't mean that the same number of women out of a thousand (for example) are as suitable as their male equivalents to become aircrew.
If that were not true, then the ratio of male/female pilots would be 50:50!
Last edited by Training Risky; 11th Jul 2003 at 19:09.
Surely a 50:50 ratio would also require that an equal number of those women with the necessary aptitude actually wanted to do the job, and applied for it. They don't. It would also assume that women were equally encouraged by their schools, unis and society generally to join the military. They're not. It would also assume that they were equally educationally qualified. They're not. (I'm not being sexist, but just pointing out the low proportion of aero eng/eng degree courses made up of female students, and the lower proportion of girls taking the more relevant GCSEs and A-levels).
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Guys, many thanks for your answers, some have been very informative and controlled.the point/question that I raised may not have been well phrased...I'm not running for a post as a diplomat anytime soon
And no, I am not a journo,I just wanted to prove my friend wrong.
And no, I am not a journo,I just wanted to prove my friend wrong.