Blues at Brize II
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Blues at Brize II
I am led to believe that there has now been a turn around at Brize and aircrew are now allowed to wear flying suits in public, like the rest of the airforce.
Is this true?
Is this true?
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I hope that this is all kosher, I happened to be in the co-op in cartoon town today and stood at the deli counter behind a 101 S/ldr with Manuel type moustache complete with growbag and cheesecutter. 
Is this just an issue regarding flying suits or does it extend to the wearing of service uniform while "off base"?
As a former (fairly recent) member of the airforce I recall that the main reason for not being allowed to wear uniform off base was the terrorist threat from PIRA. Judging by the small amount of Northern Irelands politics that makes it as far as the Southern Hemisphere has most of that threat not now disappeared?
Or is it just a Grow Bag thing?
As a former (fairly recent) member of the airforce I recall that the main reason for not being allowed to wear uniform off base was the terrorist threat from PIRA. Judging by the small amount of Northern Irelands politics that makes it as far as the Southern Hemisphere has most of that threat not now disappeared?
Or is it just a Grow Bag thing?
A while ago, a general smartening up of flying suits was ordered. They were to be of a standard appearance as decided by the sqn cdr, with flying badge or composite flying badge and name and no more than one badge per sleeve. Shirts worn underneath were to be of uniform sqn type.
The idea was to get away from the walking Christmas tree appearance of some aircrew; it worked well and there is no intrinsic reason why clean, smart, uniform sqn flying suits should not be treated as a proper service uniform which may be worn as laid down in service-wide rather than local regulations.
Personally I'd suggest rank insignia, uniform sqn name badge/flying badge, standard national flag on left shoulder and sqn badge on the other. Nothing else - no Red Flag, Top Gun, TLP, Leaping Wolf or other badges.
It's easy to understand why any stn cdr wouldn't want a bunch of scruffs on his patch - so if his/her aircrew stick to the rules then they'll be doing themselves a favour.
The idea was to get away from the walking Christmas tree appearance of some aircrew; it worked well and there is no intrinsic reason why clean, smart, uniform sqn flying suits should not be treated as a proper service uniform which may be worn as laid down in service-wide rather than local regulations.
Personally I'd suggest rank insignia, uniform sqn name badge/flying badge, standard national flag on left shoulder and sqn badge on the other. Nothing else - no Red Flag, Top Gun, TLP, Leaping Wolf or other badges.
It's easy to understand why any stn cdr wouldn't want a bunch of scruffs on his patch - so if his/her aircrew stick to the rules then they'll be doing themselves a favour.
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The flying suit is a proper service uniform with its own number (as in No 2 HD), but I can't remeber for the life of me what number it is. Anyone help here? It has to be a uniform so that captured aircrew are "in uniform".
Join Date: May 2003
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Well
I really cant see the problem with this issue. If you are flying, wear a flying suit, comfortable and practical. If you are not flying, why shouldnt we wear blues. I really dont see the issue on this and I cant get excited about it. If somebody introduced it my stn, I might have to reach for the ol'cardboard storage box and an iron but no big deal.
Seems to me that some people think the "growbag" is a status symbol. But I am prepared to be corrected if anyone can provide one reason why they should wear a flying suit if they are not programmed to fly?
Happy to be converted
Seems to me that some people think the "growbag" is a status symbol. But I am prepared to be corrected if anyone can provide one reason why they should wear a flying suit if they are not programmed to fly?
Happy to be converted
OK Jack, what if you have come into work in blues, knowing definately that you are not on the flypro, you go to metbrief....
Straight after, the DA identifies YOU as the only available pilot to fly a task due to your qualification/chum's off-sick/ etc......
If you've got a rush job: route to plan, NOTAMs to check, flight plan to write, etc, how extra rushed and maxed out are you going to be when you realise you have to go to the locker room and change??
You might waste 10 minutes (or thereabouts)?
In this situation, that's the kind of distraction you do not need.
Fine, wear blues for groundschool, SDO, parades, etc.
But for god's sake, if there is even a sniff of a chance of flying, pitch up in grobag every time!
Straight after, the DA identifies YOU as the only available pilot to fly a task due to your qualification/chum's off-sick/ etc......
If you've got a rush job: route to plan, NOTAMs to check, flight plan to write, etc, how extra rushed and maxed out are you going to be when you realise you have to go to the locker room and change??
You might waste 10 minutes (or thereabouts)?
In this situation, that's the kind of distraction you do not need.
Fine, wear blues for groundschool, SDO, parades, etc.
But for god's sake, if there is even a sniff of a chance of flying, pitch up in grobag every time!
A guide we used to have was that if you needed to be 'available for flying', you wore No 14 Dress. Coming in wearing Blues was a way of making it plain that no, you wouldn't be available for some short notice task because you were involved in something else - although I do remember being scrambled in Blues once (VC10), grabbing my flying suit and changing somewhere over Newcastle as we headed off towards Saxa and Q1!
What's a 'locker room'? If there's space for one of those on a ME sqn, then its space which could be better used!
What's a 'locker room'? If there's space for one of those on a ME sqn, then its space which could be better used!
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Not blunt, chaps. Just not in the cockpit. For reasons other than 'not good enough' etc.
You can train a monkey to ride a bike, but you can't train him to fix it!
You can train a monkey to ride a bike, but you can't train him to fix it!
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Harumph
Deliverance my old china
I sincerely hope you are joking. Sometimes I find it just a little bit worrying that some people take great delight in the aircrew v bluntie divide. I can think of very few blunties who have gone out of their way to buggger me around. Admittedly, a lot need guidance and some can be just plain ignorant but wearing blues when you dont need to wear a flying suit is nothing to do with being blunt. Wearing blues is just part of being the RAF and you get a nice shiny set of wings as well!
'Cos, of course, to anyone in the army we are all just effing useless crabs - by which they mean we are all blunties. Especially 2 Group who are just coach drivers to your average squaddie.
But, hey, see you at RIAT - growbags a must
I sincerely hope you are joking. Sometimes I find it just a little bit worrying that some people take great delight in the aircrew v bluntie divide. I can think of very few blunties who have gone out of their way to buggger me around. Admittedly, a lot need guidance and some can be just plain ignorant but wearing blues when you dont need to wear a flying suit is nothing to do with being blunt. Wearing blues is just part of being the RAF and you get a nice shiny set of wings as well!
'Cos, of course, to anyone in the army we are all just effing useless crabs - by which they mean we are all blunties. Especially 2 Group who are just coach drivers to your average squaddie.
But, hey, see you at RIAT - growbags a must
(Asbestos on...)
I'm not aircrew, not even a Regular, but do have a couple of comments to make:
Visited Ramstein last year, saw their AT tasking centre - aircrew in desk jobs, wearing flight suits. It didn't look appropriate to the job.
Likewise, seeing someone queuing to pay for the milk and biscuits in the Co-op dressed in a flying suit would not look appropriate - to me.
By all means wear a flying suit on the station if there is any chance of being called on for flying duty, but be prepared to change into work clothes in your time before the work starts - as many civilians have to do!
I'm not aircrew, not even a Regular, but do have a couple of comments to make:
Visited Ramstein last year, saw their AT tasking centre - aircrew in desk jobs, wearing flight suits. It didn't look appropriate to the job.
Likewise, seeing someone queuing to pay for the milk and biscuits in the Co-op dressed in a flying suit would not look appropriate - to me.
By all means wear a flying suit on the station if there is any chance of being called on for flying duty, but be prepared to change into work clothes in your time before the work starts - as many civilians have to do!
Gro bags v Overalls
In a previous (office bound) post with zero chance of even sniffing an aircraft, the aircrew would wear their gro bags on a Friday, to remind everyone that they were aircrew.
When one section comprising GR3 groundcrew tried to wear their overalls one friday, to remind the world that they were fully trained members of the groundcrew profession, they were bo**ocked rigid and told to get changed into blues.
At my present unit "overalls are not to be worn off station period" (quoteth the SWO), we still have gro bags buying bread and milk in the local shops.
If this isn't a case of 'look at me, I'm aircrew' I dont know what is. Blues (or Greens) for off base and working dress on base, should be standardised in this two part airforce.
When one section comprising GR3 groundcrew tried to wear their overalls one friday, to remind the world that they were fully trained members of the groundcrew profession, they were bo**ocked rigid and told to get changed into blues.
At my present unit "overalls are not to be worn off station period" (quoteth the SWO), we still have gro bags buying bread and milk in the local shops.
If this isn't a case of 'look at me, I'm aircrew' I dont know what is. Blues (or Greens) for off base and working dress on base, should be standardised in this two part airforce.
Deliverance, old chap...
I'm just giving a civvie point of view - it doesn't look "right" (or "appropriate" as I used originally).
I could see, say, a fireman in his dayglo stripes stopping, hopping out of his cab and buying a pint of milk at the Co-op. But if he was in full silver asbestos suit, I would look askance!
On another thread, gentle banter was taken of a Spacey VR(T) in the mess in flying suit and RC wings - no problem with the banter - the dress was inappropriate (if nothing else!). But what's sauce for the goose...
I'm just giving a civvie point of view - it doesn't look "right" (or "appropriate" as I used originally).
I could see, say, a fireman in his dayglo stripes stopping, hopping out of his cab and buying a pint of milk at the Co-op. But if he was in full silver asbestos suit, I would look askance!
On another thread, gentle banter was taken of a Spacey VR(T) in the mess in flying suit and RC wings - no problem with the banter - the dress was inappropriate (if nothing else!). But what's sauce for the goose...
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As someone who spent the first 15 years of his service life in blues.......hairy thru to thunderbirds and the last 14 wearing my "bag" to work I can safely vouch for the fact that those ghastly "barathea" gaments were some of the most uncomfortable i have ever worn.
A growbag is supposed to look as if it only fits where it touches, whilst blues are supposed to look smart and well tailored....................however bearing in mind that during the 29 years of my service I cannot recall when we last purchased anything ranging from plimsoles to rifles that was fit for the task is it any surprise that the majority of us look like bags of pooh
when dressed in blue.
So with that in mind if i have to look like a bag of pooh I might as well be a comfortable bag of pooh, as a quick aside if the "bag" is that much of an eyesore how come so many other "trades" take delight in wearng them 
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
and the last 14 wearing my "bag" to work I can safely vouch for the fact that those ghastly "barathea" gaments were some of the most uncomfortable i have ever worn. A growbag is supposed to look as if it only fits where it touches, whilst blues are supposed to look smart and well tailored....................however bearing in mind that during the 29 years of my service I cannot recall when we last purchased anything ranging from plimsoles to rifles that was fit for the task is it any surprise that the majority of us look like bags of pooh
when dressed in blue.So with that in mind if i have to look like a bag of pooh I might as well be a comfortable bag of pooh
, as a quick aside if the "bag" is that much of an eyesore how come so many other "trades" take delight in wearng them all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Terrorist threat notwithstanding of course, I think it would be good to see more Service people (whether in a flying suit or blues or whatever) out and about in the locality. Good PR for the Services. The problem we have in the UK is low visibility outside of Service establishments due to years of self protection.
Memories fade quickly in the UK, the latest punch up in the Gulf will not last long in the mind of Joe Public.
BTW, sometimes I find my 3C's quite a refreshing change to wear when I'm not scheduled to fly and it gives the washing machine a chance to do its stuff, and it doesnt really take that long to get changed into a spare set if you have to.
Oggin
Memories fade quickly in the UK, the latest punch up in the Gulf will not last long in the mind of Joe Public.
BTW, sometimes I find my 3C's quite a refreshing change to wear when I'm not scheduled to fly and it gives the washing machine a chance to do its stuff, and it doesnt really take that long to get changed into a spare set if you have to.
Oggin
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Funny innit how all aircrew always say-
"everyone wants to be like us, and you're liars if you don't"
Here's another point of view- If flying suits are 'specialist clothing'
then like all specialist clothing they should only be worn when required for that task...anything else is misuse.
seems to me previous honourable correspondent was correct...
It's a case of "look at me I'm a pilot" same as civvie street.
What's the difference between a pilot and god?
god knows he's god, pilot just thinks he is.
"everyone wants to be like us, and you're liars if you don't"
Here's another point of view- If flying suits are 'specialist clothing'
then like all specialist clothing they should only be worn when required for that task...anything else is misuse.
seems to me previous honourable correspondent was correct...
It's a case of "look at me I'm a pilot" same as civvie street.
What's the difference between a pilot and god?
god knows he's god, pilot just thinks he is.
Deliverance, I'm not "wrong" - I'm giving you my _opinion_ as stated. I don't have any influence on Air Force policy! I am a civilian, supportive of the RAF, who doesn't want their personnel sniggered at!
If you wore LSJ, G-pants (and helmet?) you _would_ get a laugh, woudn't you! (And I think you know that dress would be _really_ inappropriate). I've used the words "appropriate" and "right" - maybe I should have been less polite and used the word "silly"!
My analogy of fireman in dayglo suit would be equivalent to blue 2 or dpm - comfortable (non-flying) normal working dress. The argument for wearing flying suits is, ISTR, the possibility of being pulled into the flying programme at short notice - this would not apply while shopping at the Co-op!
Please recognise that the audience at the Co-op is _vastly_ different to that at, say, an airshow. At one, the owner of a flight suit normally receives (deserved) adulation, at the other... ?
If you wore LSJ, G-pants (and helmet?) you _would_ get a laugh, woudn't you! (And I think you know that dress would be _really_ inappropriate). I've used the words "appropriate" and "right" - maybe I should have been less polite and used the word "silly"!
My analogy of fireman in dayglo suit would be equivalent to blue 2 or dpm - comfortable (non-flying) normal working dress. The argument for wearing flying suits is, ISTR, the possibility of being pulled into the flying programme at short notice - this would not apply while shopping at the Co-op!
Please recognise that the audience at the Co-op is _vastly_ different to that at, say, an airshow. At one, the owner of a flight suit normally receives (deserved) adulation, at the other... ?