V- Bombers.
FEBA
The RAF is supposed to be getting a large "bomber" type aircraft, capable of flying for 10+ hours, with a respectable bomb load and the ability to self designate targets. It could provide long term weapons loiter capablity, with the option to re-task in the air with its extensive comms suite. It is supposed to be capable of dropping every airborne weapon in the Nato inventory. It is true that it would be very vulnerable to a hi tech air defence system, but I am sure it would come into its own in some of the asymmetric "wars" we fight these days, e.g Afghanistan and Iraq. Certain it could, in some situations, replace a apckage of 4 Tornadoes, tanker support, etc.
Oh yes, I forgot to tell you what it is called. It is the Nimrod MRA4!! The A stands for attack. Provided the RAF employs it with some vision (keeping the name Nimrod was a mistake in my opinion), and the maritime boys don't just treat it like the old Nimrod, and the Tornado guys don't play "turf wars" to try and keep it out, it provides some great possibilities. Just a pity it won't be here for another 5/6/7/8/10/never* years!
* delete as applicable!
The RAF is supposed to be getting a large "bomber" type aircraft, capable of flying for 10+ hours, with a respectable bomb load and the ability to self designate targets. It could provide long term weapons loiter capablity, with the option to re-task in the air with its extensive comms suite. It is supposed to be capable of dropping every airborne weapon in the Nato inventory. It is true that it would be very vulnerable to a hi tech air defence system, but I am sure it would come into its own in some of the asymmetric "wars" we fight these days, e.g Afghanistan and Iraq. Certain it could, in some situations, replace a apckage of 4 Tornadoes, tanker support, etc.
Oh yes, I forgot to tell you what it is called. It is the Nimrod MRA4!! The A stands for attack. Provided the RAF employs it with some vision (keeping the name Nimrod was a mistake in my opinion), and the maritime boys don't just treat it like the old Nimrod, and the Tornado guys don't play "turf wars" to try and keep it out, it provides some great possibilities. Just a pity it won't be here for another 5/6/7/8/10/never* years!
* delete as applicable!
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Re Vulcan v F-4 - been there, done it, missed it most times, save for the occasional, unconvincing guns snapshot. 'Yeah, Fox 3 that time, thanks very much, time for a photo, gotta go now, byeeee.' Hmmmm. It was all about timing, and I didn't have it!
You probably know that Bruntingthorpe, Leics has a Vulcan and a Victor, as well as a Buccaneer, Lightning, Jaguar, JP, L-29 and others. I think that all but the Vulcan do regular taxi runs for the paying public. The Vulcan is the one that some keen bods are trying to get flyworthy, and they are looking for financial donations (and possibly aircrew one day!). Worth a visit, especially if you crave a whiff of Avtur and a battering of the eardrums.
You probably know that Bruntingthorpe, Leics has a Vulcan and a Victor, as well as a Buccaneer, Lightning, Jaguar, JP, L-29 and others. I think that all but the Vulcan do regular taxi runs for the paying public. The Vulcan is the one that some keen bods are trying to get flyworthy, and they are looking for financial donations (and possibly aircrew one day!). Worth a visit, especially if you crave a whiff of Avtur and a battering of the eardrums.
Supersonic Victor
I remember the Crew Drill Trainer (XA 917 at Marham) having a plaque attached to record its supersonic achievement.
'On 1st June 1957 it became the largest aircraft to break the sound barrier on a test flight from Gaydon. Johnny Allam put her into a shallow dive at 40,000 ft and clocked up 675mph, which represented Mach 1.02. The Victor was quite stable throughout, giving observer Paul Langston little sensation of what was going on; he landed with distinction of being the first man to break the sound barrier going backwards!' (Acknowledgement to Andrew Brookes' fine book on the Victor)
'On 1st June 1957 it became the largest aircraft to break the sound barrier on a test flight from Gaydon. Johnny Allam put her into a shallow dive at 40,000 ft and clocked up 675mph, which represented Mach 1.02. The Victor was quite stable throughout, giving observer Paul Langston little sensation of what was going on; he landed with distinction of being the first man to break the sound barrier going backwards!' (Acknowledgement to Andrew Brookes' fine book on the Victor)
Not sure about supersonic - but I once did M0.97+ in a Vulcan B2!
For some reason we were transiting at FL450 instead of the usual FL410. ATC delayed our descent and, as Watt-the-Plot had cocked up our timing yet again, we needed a rapid descent to make the LL entry point at the right time. 'No problem', thought I, 'clost the throttles, smack the airbrakes out to 'high drag' and then accelerate against the drag to kill the height'. So I did - forgetting 2 important things. Not only was the IMN corresponding to the normal IAS higher up there, but I'd forgotten about the pronounced nose-down trim change which happened about 7 seconds after selecting airbrakes to mid drag. So as I chased the IAS, the IMN had already risen to 0.9 or so - and then the thing pitched forward as the a/b trim change bit... Vulcan chums will remember that Auto Mach Trim starts to apply more and more up elevon at high IMN just to maintain the pitch attitude, so as IMN increases, there's not much control column movement left for dive recovery if you're stupid enough to have got yourself pointing firmly downnwards at high IMN! M0.93 came and went, so did M0.95. I had the control column pretty well all the way back and yet the IMN was still increasing.....I stopped looking at M0.97! Fortunately the denser air began to win and I regained rather more control of the plunging monster at around FL300....
It was definitely a 'rapid descent' - but I nearly boomed Bawtry (HQ 1 (Bomber) Group at that time) in the process.....
I guess my experience on that day illustrates why people write Pilots' Notes and SOPs!!
For some reason we were transiting at FL450 instead of the usual FL410. ATC delayed our descent and, as Watt-the-Plot had cocked up our timing yet again, we needed a rapid descent to make the LL entry point at the right time. 'No problem', thought I, 'clost the throttles, smack the airbrakes out to 'high drag' and then accelerate against the drag to kill the height'. So I did - forgetting 2 important things. Not only was the IMN corresponding to the normal IAS higher up there, but I'd forgotten about the pronounced nose-down trim change which happened about 7 seconds after selecting airbrakes to mid drag. So as I chased the IAS, the IMN had already risen to 0.9 or so - and then the thing pitched forward as the a/b trim change bit... Vulcan chums will remember that Auto Mach Trim starts to apply more and more up elevon at high IMN just to maintain the pitch attitude, so as IMN increases, there's not much control column movement left for dive recovery if you're stupid enough to have got yourself pointing firmly downnwards at high IMN! M0.93 came and went, so did M0.95. I had the control column pretty well all the way back and yet the IMN was still increasing.....I stopped looking at M0.97! Fortunately the denser air began to win and I regained rather more control of the plunging monster at around FL300....
It was definitely a 'rapid descent' - but I nearly boomed Bawtry (HQ 1 (Bomber) Group at that time) in the process.....
I guess my experience on that day illustrates why people write Pilots' Notes and SOPs!!
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Thank you biggus.
So whilst our colleagues from over the water attack targets with B1's etc you would advocate we do the same with a comet! Ummm. Maybe we could attack a bit of shipping on the way back!
Beagle
I have a colleague at work who confirms that the vulcan was subsonic.
So whilst our colleagues from over the water attack targets with B1's etc you would advocate we do the same with a comet! Ummm. Maybe we could attack a bit of shipping on the way back!
Beagle
I have a colleague at work who confirms that the vulcan was subsonic.
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As BEagle will attest, even the "humble" VC10 is certified M0.925 on the flat (with the cb on the high speed warning horn pulled) - and would do more if we didn't obey the rules.
As the test pilots at Boscombe found out, if you deploy full speedbrake at high altitude/Mach number in contravention of the Pilot's Notes then the resultant tuck under will send you trans-sonic before you get the chance to recover. BAe had fun repairing the damage to the fin on that tanker!
As the test pilots at Boscombe found out, if you deploy full speedbrake at high altitude/Mach number in contravention of the Pilot's Notes then the resultant tuck under will send you trans-sonic before you get the chance to recover. BAe had fun repairing the damage to the fin on that tanker!
Weren't they actually trying to do 2 test points at the same time in contravention of their test schedule?
The first time I recovered from the high IMN run on a full VC10 flight test, the co-pilot extended the speedbrakes rather quickly. The resulting pitch forces were quite surprising! Thereafter I always used to demo it to new pilots in the simulator so that they knew what to expect.
The ancient '10 is only ever flown over 0.866 IMN on full flight tests nowadays - no more '$od the fuel burn - rig for silent running'....
The first time I recovered from the high IMN run on a full VC10 flight test, the co-pilot extended the speedbrakes rather quickly. The resulting pitch forces were quite surprising! Thereafter I always used to demo it to new pilots in the simulator so that they knew what to expect.
The ancient '10 is only ever flown over 0.866 IMN on full flight tests nowadays - no more '$od the fuel burn - rig for silent running'....
FEBA
Yes our friends from over the water attack targets using B1-s, but their navy attacks land targets using P-3s (thats a Lockheed Electra to you mate, even older than the Comet!!) with long range PGMs. So if you are going to start comparing them to us!!
There is another thread on here, "lrnp", where they talk about serious studies into launching PGMs from A-400s, C-17s, C-130s. The whole point is that if the weapon has most of the brains the launch aircraft used is largely irrelevant provided it has the necessary range, endurance, comms fit and ability to self-designate the weapons!
Some of the US B-52s are older than the Nimrods, take the piss out of them then. I told you vision was required!!
Yes our friends from over the water attack targets using B1-s, but their navy attacks land targets using P-3s (thats a Lockheed Electra to you mate, even older than the Comet!!) with long range PGMs. So if you are going to start comparing them to us!!
There is another thread on here, "lrnp", where they talk about serious studies into launching PGMs from A-400s, C-17s, C-130s. The whole point is that if the weapon has most of the brains the launch aircraft used is largely irrelevant provided it has the necessary range, endurance, comms fit and ability to self-designate the weapons!
Some of the US B-52s are older than the Nimrods, take the piss out of them then. I told you vision was required!!
Supersonic Victors
The Victor Mk1 was quite capable of supersonic flight despite only having weedy Sapphire engines rated at 11000lbs on a good day. It was almost perfectly area ruled and would slip through transonic flight effortlessly. The Mk2 had Conways which meant a deeper wing section which spoilt the area ruling. As a consequence, you got quite marked Mach buffet from about .92. The MMO of the Mk1 was .98 wheras the Mk2 was .95.
The 4th developement airframe was officially flown supersonic during testing. The cockpit section was later employed as the crew emergency trainer at Marham. However, I have it on very good authority that a number of the Mk1s were flown supersonic by their crews 'just for the experience'.
The 4th developement airframe was officially flown supersonic during testing. The cockpit section was later employed as the crew emergency trainer at Marham. However, I have it on very good authority that a number of the Mk1s were flown supersonic by their crews 'just for the experience'.
