Dambusters - 21:00 - channel 4
Dambusters - 21:00 - channel 4
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I thought it was prety good, but it appears from other stuff I've read to contain incorrect info, ie. the 7 hours at 100 ft line, but then I like 99% of us was'ent there. Can't wait for part 2
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Dambusters Channel 4
Think you missed the point MightyGem... the programme quoted 100' ALTITUDE.... since their track was over parts of Germany 600+ feet amsl, this implies they were flying at 500' below ground level! (Height= vert dist agl....altitude= vert dist amsl..remember?) Nonetheless those were truly great guys who achieved the almost impossible. Bless them all BM
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Interesting idea for a programme but poorly executed, in my opinion. There is, of course, no denying that the original guys were an amazing bunch and their feat remains an outstanding testament to their skill and bravery.
The programme seemed to be trying to compare the current generation of aircrew with their forebears, the argument being that young aircrew fresh out of training today, are in a similar position to the Dambusters 60 years ago. It then contradicted itself by quoting one old boy as being curious when he turned up at Scampton to find a gathering of very good, experienced crews. The Dambusters weren't new to the Lanc or their crews. It seemed a tad unfair to subject these newly breveted pre OCU guys and girls to the comparison.
I agreed with the boys from todays 617 that your levels of MDR etc. are much better just out of training than after a few years on the front line. What confused me was that after the narrator spoke at length about the demands of low level MDR Nav and how pivotal the Nav was on the Lanc not a single Nav was given a shot at trying out for the crew (banter is expected!)
As it progressed I did wonder what exactly the programme was trying to prove.
The programme seemed to be trying to compare the current generation of aircrew with their forebears, the argument being that young aircrew fresh out of training today, are in a similar position to the Dambusters 60 years ago. It then contradicted itself by quoting one old boy as being curious when he turned up at Scampton to find a gathering of very good, experienced crews. The Dambusters weren't new to the Lanc or their crews. It seemed a tad unfair to subject these newly breveted pre OCU guys and girls to the comparison.
I agreed with the boys from todays 617 that your levels of MDR etc. are much better just out of training than after a few years on the front line. What confused me was that after the narrator spoke at length about the demands of low level MDR Nav and how pivotal the Nav was on the Lanc not a single Nav was given a shot at trying out for the crew (banter is expected!)
As it progressed I did wonder what exactly the programme was trying to prove.
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Did they quote "altitude"? Can't remember. You have to keep in mind the target audience though and I thought it was all pretty good. Though I'm no expert myself. I did notice the rear gunner looking pretty board on the first mission though 
Remember that thread a while back on good looking female fighter pilots. Lucy wasn't all that bad, was she
Muhah
Another thing (probably me being thick here!)... Why didn't they use BBMF's lanc to do the experience flight? Was it just not serviceable or something?
Remember that thread a while back on good looking female fighter pilots. Lucy wasn't all that bad, was she
MuhahAnother thing (probably me being thick here!)... Why didn't they use BBMF's lanc to do the experience flight? Was it just not serviceable or something?
I found the documentary parts of the programme interesting but thought that the "simulator" left a little to be desired and agree that comparing pre-OCU studes to those that formed 617 a tadge unfair.
Difar - I'd also wondered about the lack of navs (bites tongue very hard indeed), it is odd. It was nice to see NCO aircrew though, I didn't know that the RAF still admitted to owning any.
Difar - I'd also wondered about the lack of navs (bites tongue very hard indeed), it is odd. It was nice to see NCO aircrew though, I didn't know that the RAF still admitted to owning any.
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I thought it was very good in parts, and a lot deeper, than previous efforts.
Lots of lovely shots of the Canadian Lanc, and the RAF bods all with big grins (Well, wouldn't you?)
As for 7 hours at 100'? I seem to remember that either Micky Martin, or David Shannon, made a point of returning at low-level after bombing, the idea being that if you were that low, the Fighters had a hard time picking you up, and the gun crews couldn't react fast enough.
If anyone has ever seen the famous "Cooks Tour" Air ministry film, of a Mosquito raid deep into Germany, there was bags of very low level in that, with comments from the Navigator like "Church Steeple skipper"..
Lots of lovely shots of the Canadian Lanc, and the RAF bods all with big grins (Well, wouldn't you?)
As for 7 hours at 100'? I seem to remember that either Micky Martin, or David Shannon, made a point of returning at low-level after bombing, the idea being that if you were that low, the Fighters had a hard time picking you up, and the gun crews couldn't react fast enough.
If anyone has ever seen the famous "Cooks Tour" Air ministry film, of a Mosquito raid deep into Germany, there was bags of very low level in that, with comments from the Navigator like "Church Steeple skipper"..
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Never seen a Mosquito film taken over Germany, but the last time I went to the Imperial War Museum, they had a ride-in "sim" with footage of the Amiens Gaol raid... could that be the one? Worth a visit, and sooooooooo impressive.
dambusters
why on earth did they have the Clash or something similar playing in the background,when the original aircrew were trying to tell you about their experiences!!
i could hardly hear a word the guys were saying!
also i never knew the Lancaster was actually a LancaRster,as the narrator kept calling it!!!!!grrrrrrrr
i could hardly hear a word the guys were saying!
also i never knew the Lancaster was actually a LancaRster,as the narrator kept calling it!!!!!grrrrrrrr
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I thought the whole thing was a flawed attempt at something or other. As an aviator, I didn't get the point. I'm not sure if it honoured or belittled the original crews, of which there are precious few left.
Guy Gibson's own book, for those who haven't read it, gives a far better impression.
Guy Gibson's own book, for those who haven't read it, gives a far better impression.
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Rolling20
I was at university with him... he's from dahn sahf!
Rattus
also i never knew the Lancaster was actually a LancaRster,as the narrator kept calling it!!!!!grrrrrrrr
Rattus
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Theres been a spate of Dam Buster docs recently, I have watched three, I get the impression that Guy Gibson wasn't that popular among his chaps, nothing concrete or downright nasty said of course, just the odd hint in what the surviving crews say about him.
I don't suppose he was there to win a popularity contest though.
I don't suppose he was there to win a popularity contest though.