Dambusters - 21:00 - channel 4
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Cost and airframe hours?
That sequence of the Lancaster landing in the twilight, Merlins popping as they were throttled back, was beautiful, spoilt only by the anti-collison strobes, shame they couldn't have taken a paintbox to that scene.
I agree, let's watch what the programme creators are trying to achieve, a sense of "being there" as opposed to hacking it to bits.
Incidentally, the rushes for next weeks programme, clearly show the crew dressed in WW2 clothing. Interestingly enough, one of them appeared to be wearing a Luftwaffe Mae West a la Gibson. So, I think they are trying to get some attention to detail points right
That sequence of the Lancaster landing in the twilight, Merlins popping as they were throttled back, was beautiful, spoilt only by the anti-collison strobes, shame they couldn't have taken a paintbox to that scene.
I agree, let's watch what the programme creators are trying to achieve, a sense of "being there" as opposed to hacking it to bits.
Incidentally, the rushes for next weeks programme, clearly show the crew dressed in WW2 clothing. Interestingly enough, one of them appeared to be wearing a Luftwaffe Mae West a la Gibson. So, I think they are trying to get some attention to detail points right
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"Would you let someone only just out of multi's training on to your Lanc?"
That was Spencer Flack's rationale for buying a Spit - owners would ask "Have you flown a Spit before? No? Well, you're not flying this one then!!"
That was Spencer Flack's rationale for buying a Spit - owners would ask "Have you flown a Spit before? No? Well, you're not flying this one then!!"
What about the successful sortie in wartime conditions that ended with the crew in the North Sea at night, the crew all jump out of the simulator and it's a well done from the skipper.
ALWAYS assume NEVER check
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Gotta agree, I enjoyed the show.
Did get a little pi$$ed off with the narrator and his stupid quotes about how modern day pilots can't fly without computers. Apparently we're all "cyborgs" too!
Give me computer to fly my jet and I'll be only too happy........!
Did get a little pi$$ed off with the narrator and his stupid quotes about how modern day pilots can't fly without computers. Apparently we're all "cyborgs" too!
Give me computer to fly my jet and I'll be only too happy........!
Quite astonishingly, Channel 4 is currently (12 1552 Z) showing the original uncut version of 'The Dam Busters' - including the use of Gibson's dog's real name.
Well done to Channel 4 for showing the film in its true historical form.
The spirit of Nig ger must be wagging his tail happily, now that someone has actually had the cojones to allow his name to be uttered on public TV!
Well done to Channel 4 for showing the film in its true historical form.
The spirit of Nig ger must be wagging his tail happily, now that someone has actually had the cojones to allow his name to be uttered on public TV!
Last edited by BEagle; 13th Apr 2003 at 00:07.
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I just watched the second half, and enjoyed it.
Something has always puzzled me , wouldn't a five ton cylinder rotating at 500 RPM at 90 degrees to the direction of travel have some gyroscopic effect on the aircraft, ie make it a bit reluctant to alter its direction of travel?
I have asked this question once before but I do not recall whether it was here or not, also If I got a answer, I cannot recall that either.
PS. Been a few documentries about that raid these last few months thats, the first one that mentioned that one aircraft lost its bomb when it hit the sea momentarily.
Something has always puzzled me , wouldn't a five ton cylinder rotating at 500 RPM at 90 degrees to the direction of travel have some gyroscopic effect on the aircraft, ie make it a bit reluctant to alter its direction of travel?
I have asked this question once before but I do not recall whether it was here or not, also If I got a answer, I cannot recall that either.
PS. Been a few documentries about that raid these last few months thats, the first one that mentioned that one aircraft lost its bomb when it hit the sea momentarily.
Last edited by tony draper; 15th Apr 2003 at 06:11.
Grandpa Aerotart
Draper...what a good question.
I think that any gyroscopic precession from one side of the bomb would be cancelled out by that from t'other side....in a turn anyway.
500 RPM is fairly slow really so perhaps not as significant as one might think at first glance.
Seems more likely that the aircraft's handling would be more ponderous overall rather than twitchy...as in turn right/pitch up etc.
Just had a quick glance through Aeroplane at the newsstand with an article on Gibson post dams raid...sad ending
I think comparisons between the skills of crews 1939-45 and current is rather silly...both groups were/are trained to fly the cutting edge technology of the day.
Navigation, as it was performed at the time, was performed by a full time Nav with the aid of the rest of the crew and, let's face it, not over huge distances...thus even pure DR would get you close.
A childhood mate's father flew a tour on Lancs as a rear gunner, having failed pilot's course in Canada (RAAF) due depth perception probs, and subsequently remustered as a Nav on Mossies for another 2 tours roaming Europe a dot feet on Search & Destroy freelancing. He knew Gibson and heard his last transmission.
All incredibly brave young chaps...or in the words of several vets I've met, including a several who won DFC/DSOs in Europe..."Just young".
Forget not also the vast numbers who gave their lives in accidents, either training or on ops, rather than to enemy action...I think you will find that the greatest enemy was not gunfire but inexperience...rather akin to a dramatic display of natural selection.
Chuck.
I think that any gyroscopic precession from one side of the bomb would be cancelled out by that from t'other side....in a turn anyway.
500 RPM is fairly slow really so perhaps not as significant as one might think at first glance.
Seems more likely that the aircraft's handling would be more ponderous overall rather than twitchy...as in turn right/pitch up etc.
Just had a quick glance through Aeroplane at the newsstand with an article on Gibson post dams raid...sad ending
I think comparisons between the skills of crews 1939-45 and current is rather silly...both groups were/are trained to fly the cutting edge technology of the day.
Navigation, as it was performed at the time, was performed by a full time Nav with the aid of the rest of the crew and, let's face it, not over huge distances...thus even pure DR would get you close.
A childhood mate's father flew a tour on Lancs as a rear gunner, having failed pilot's course in Canada (RAAF) due depth perception probs, and subsequently remustered as a Nav on Mossies for another 2 tours roaming Europe a dot feet on Search & Destroy freelancing. He knew Gibson and heard his last transmission.
All incredibly brave young chaps...or in the words of several vets I've met, including a several who won DFC/DSOs in Europe..."Just young".
Forget not also the vast numbers who gave their lives in accidents, either training or on ops, rather than to enemy action...I think you will find that the greatest enemy was not gunfire but inexperience...rather akin to a dramatic display of natural selection.
Chuck.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 15th Apr 2003 at 21:13.
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The internet. Ain't it great?
To: sprucemoose
It was the Korean Conflict which elevated the squadron's exploits to the status of legend. Flying the rugged AD-1 Skyraider from the deck of the USS Princeton, men from Attack Squadron ONE NINE FIVE (VA-195) sortied in a raid against the strategic Hwa Chon Dam. Heavily defended in a valley littered with Anti-Aircraft Artillery, the dam had defied all previous attempts at destruction by Air Force and Navy bombers. With the novel approach of using torpedoes to attack the dam, the squadron succeeded, securing a major strategic victory in the process and inspiring James Mitchener's acclaimed novel and movie The Bridges of Toko-Ri. The squadron continues to be known as the "Dambusters" to this day.
It was the Korean Conflict which elevated the squadron's exploits to the status of legend. Flying the rugged AD-1 Skyraider from the deck of the USS Princeton, men from Attack Squadron ONE NINE FIVE (VA-195) sortied in a raid against the strategic Hwa Chon Dam. Heavily defended in a valley littered with Anti-Aircraft Artillery, the dam had defied all previous attempts at destruction by Air Force and Navy bombers. With the novel approach of using torpedoes to attack the dam, the squadron succeeded, securing a major strategic victory in the process and inspiring James Mitchener's acclaimed novel and movie The Bridges of Toko-Ri. The squadron continues to be known as the "Dambusters" to this day.
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tony draper: In an interview for SAGA Magazine (groan! I bought their bl--dy house insurance and they keep sending me the wretched thing in the hope I'll subscribe to it) Ray Grayston, Les Knight's flight engineer, says that the Lanc. didn't fly at all well, with Wallis's mine underneath. He attributes this to spoiling of the aerodynamics. It makes their flying on the raid even more remarkable.
Sad to see that 'Johnny' Johnson, the bomb aimer, has died in the interim between filming the programme and showing. One more gone from an ever-dwindling band of heroes...
Oh and Lu Z, so far as we're concerned, there's only THE Dam Busters. That's 617 Squadron, the Royal Air Force. As recently featured, in Gulf War 2!
Sad to see that 'Johnny' Johnson, the bomb aimer, has died in the interim between filming the programme and showing. One more gone from an ever-dwindling band of heroes...
Oh and Lu Z, so far as we're concerned, there's only THE Dam Busters. That's 617 Squadron, the Royal Air Force. As recently featured, in Gulf War 2!
Last edited by Georgeablelovehowindia; 16th Apr 2003 at 09:41.
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Can somebody please help. We watched our video of part II last night - it ran out at the point where they were 'just checking the figures to see if the team hit'.
Did they get it?
Did they get it?
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Indeed they did, apparently the co-ordinates for a hit had been wrongly programed into the computer, they did it the hard way with pencil and paper and awarded the crew a hit.
A clear case of Deus Ex Machina.
A clear case of Deus Ex Machina.
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I beg to disagree. Not only did they not hit the dam, they never even got to see the dam, because she killed them all on a training mission (and even that is glossing over the ditching in the previous raid they went on, which would probably have killed them all too).
But I suppose it would have been a shorter programme if they just wrapped it up after they'd had the unfortunate training accident.
Oh and Drapes - from the accounts I've read turning on the motor to rotate the bomb resulted in the aircraft 'trying to shake itself to bits' to the point where instrument panels weren't readable, which makes the successful attack runs even more amazing.
But I suppose it would have been a shorter programme if they just wrapped it up after they'd had the unfortunate training accident.
Oh and Drapes - from the accounts I've read turning on the motor to rotate the bomb resulted in the aircraft 'trying to shake itself to bits' to the point where instrument panels weren't readable, which makes the successful attack runs even more amazing.
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That documentry stated that one Lanc had problems with the calipers holding the bomb and was forced to abort, I wonder if they managed to get rid of it over the North Sea or did the pilot have to land with it still hanging on the belly?.