PoWs on parade
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I have been pretty much sickened by the TV coverage by western media. Tapes of POW's wounded and dead (from either side) should not be shown untill the families have been informed and given consent. How would you feel if your son, wife, husband was out there. The last time you spoke to them might have been 7 or more days ago when they moved up to forward positions. they probably told you they were fine "dear I drive a fuel tanker we have all these tanks protecting us Ill be miles from the front line" next thing you see is their corpse on the floor of an Iraqi TV studio. Or more relevant to us perhaps live pictures of your brother being burnt alive by the Iraqi military on the banks of the tigris. Thankfully yesterday there was no pilot hiding in the reeds but what happens tommorrow if there is. And its a journo who spots him. Then what price having live feeds from the enemy capital.
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From: UK
An interesting comment that was made a couple of days ago is that the BBC may have inadvertantly broken the Geneva Convention by showing the faces of Iraqi POWs as they were being passed back down the line, even though the point they were trying to make in the report is that they were being treated well and being fed and watered.
If you listen to some of Bush's comments he takes care to quite open language and not to use definitive statements about how the US treats prisoners of war. One news channel (Euronews I think) suggested that this may be on account of the criticism that has been made of the way Al Quaeda prisoners have been treated in Guantanamo Bay and the way in which the Geneva Convention has been interpreted there. (Note that I am relaying what others have discussed in news reports, I am NOT commenting on the rights or wrongs of the issue).
That is correct, but secondary legislation framed in the ratification of the Geneva Convention will usually compell media organisations to adhere to the edicts of the act as part of any process of providing credentials. Some even go further in enshringing compliance in law.
If you listen to some of Bush's comments he takes care to quite open language and not to use definitive statements about how the US treats prisoners of war. One news channel (Euronews I think) suggested that this may be on account of the criticism that has been made of the way Al Quaeda prisoners have been treated in Guantanamo Bay and the way in which the Geneva Convention has been interpreted there. (Note that I am relaying what others have discussed in news reports, I am NOT commenting on the rights or wrongs of the issue).
Gentlemen, the Geneva Convention applies to those States who are signatories.
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From: The Coal Face
I was watching CNN and the reporter asked the question re GC and whether CNN would be contravening it by showing Iraqi POWs. He didn't seem to be all that aware of the GC and was somewhat caught out by the US bringing it up in its news conferences.
Surely, networks would have had some sort of planning meeting where the restrictions, pros and cons of all this are determined and the rules of broadcasting the action set? Seems a bit of an oversight in my book?
Surely, networks would have had some sort of planning meeting where the restrictions, pros and cons of all this are determined and the rules of broadcasting the action set? Seems a bit of an oversight in my book?
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From: UK
Then.........................BBC TV at lunchtime show the POW's and their fear for us all to see. No pixelation, nothing. Then the reporter who was in Washington said "we decided to cut it there because the rest was sickening!" "We didn't want show dead soldiers!" Well how bloody considerate of you BBC. I think your attitude to publishing those images at all, puts you down in the drains that SKY TV and the other come from. You are about as low as they come now.
The image of fear on that girl's face was pitiful. All the more so because it was the Iraqi's who put it there!!!!!! They are scumbags and the day of judgement is not far now. You watch the Americans get mad now.
I can only hope the BBC read this because I am sick that they should stoop so low.
An e-mail is going off to them.
The image of fear on that girl's face was pitiful. All the more so because it was the Iraqi's who put it there!!!!!! They are scumbags and the day of judgement is not far now. You watch the Americans get mad now.
I can only hope the BBC read this because I am sick that they should stoop so low.
An e-mail is going off to them.
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From: southern england
For those of us with longer memories, it is difficult to forget what happened in "My Lai"(1968).
The atrocities carried out by a few, tarnished the name of the US army, not helped by the apparent whitewash during the investigation into this incident, and the subsequent pardon for Lt. Calley, by Nixon.
All concerned in the Iraq conflict would do well to remember the words of General MacArthur, during the Second World War.
The atrocities carried out by a few, tarnished the name of the US army, not helped by the apparent whitewash during the investigation into this incident, and the subsequent pardon for Lt. Calley, by Nixon.
All concerned in the Iraq conflict would do well to remember the words of General MacArthur, during the Second World War.
"The soldier, be he friend or foe, is charged with the protection of the weak and the unarmed."
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From: Toronto
While USA treatment of "illegal combatants" is felt in many quarters to fall well short of the GCs, Iraqi treatment of GWI POWs in many cases was out and out torture and degradation.
Being shown on Al Jazeera might just give Iraqis pause before inflicting further injuries on these POWs now that their present condition has been broadcast to the entire world.
Being shown on Al Jazeera might just give Iraqis pause before inflicting further injuries on these POWs now that their present condition has been broadcast to the entire world.
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From: the dark side
Imagery
John Nichol was on lunch time TV today during a piece on the POW pictures. He stated he had never watched the clip of himself, which was obviously filmed under duress. JN made an interesting comment that these images possibly gave the relations some comfort that the people were alive, but ONLY at the time they were filmed. I wondered that maybe 'between the lines' this meant that the famillies may have suffered more stress because of the showing of the film. He also made the comment that part of the reason for filming was to further degrade the POW's. As a civillian seeing those images first time round, made me realise just what a debt of gratitude we owe all our servicemen/women, for the sacrifices and risks they are prepared to take on our behalf.
I am not surprised at all that we have seen these images, after all as above we have seen that a precedent has been set in GW1. Regarding the images of the deceased soldiers, we have to remember that in the 'west' we have seen similar images. Towards the end of the Afghan conflict in the UK there was photographic coverage of the shooting of what was described as an Afghan Al-Quida member. Any of this mans family or friends who would have had access to these pictures would have seen how his life was ended. Those were front and second page images on many UK papers. If we as a society are happy to purchase those papers with such graphic images, we should not be surprised that other countries follow suit. I can also recall images of 9/11 with recognisable faces of trapped people in the upper stories, who obviously did not survive. Our society was also happy to 'purchase' and view those images too. I am not condoning the use or showing of any of the above images, but it is a fact that if we view such images without complaint, then we should not be surprised that other societies are 'happy' to view images we are uncomfortable with. In due course we might even find them in a 'lads' magazine like FHM for example, one of that genre of mags has already used graphic pictures of the failed Iranian hostage mission with 'witty' captions.
Just for a bit of background to this post I have occaisionally free-lanced as a photographer, and have family members in the services.
I am not surprised at all that we have seen these images, after all as above we have seen that a precedent has been set in GW1. Regarding the images of the deceased soldiers, we have to remember that in the 'west' we have seen similar images. Towards the end of the Afghan conflict in the UK there was photographic coverage of the shooting of what was described as an Afghan Al-Quida member. Any of this mans family or friends who would have had access to these pictures would have seen how his life was ended. Those were front and second page images on many UK papers. If we as a society are happy to purchase those papers with such graphic images, we should not be surprised that other countries follow suit. I can also recall images of 9/11 with recognisable faces of trapped people in the upper stories, who obviously did not survive. Our society was also happy to 'purchase' and view those images too. I am not condoning the use or showing of any of the above images, but it is a fact that if we view such images without complaint, then we should not be surprised that other societies are 'happy' to view images we are uncomfortable with. In due course we might even find them in a 'lads' magazine like FHM for example, one of that genre of mags has already used graphic pictures of the failed Iranian hostage mission with 'witty' captions.
Just for a bit of background to this post I have occaisionally free-lanced as a photographer, and have family members in the services.
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From: A PC!
Excellent post jumpseater.
I was not at all impressed at the end of GW1 when we were shown VERY graphic pictures of the carnage on the Basra highway.
I think that we are shown way too many images of death and mutilation in the press and on TV - I'm not squeamish but I do feel that there are certain boundaries to taste and decency.
After all, do we not often use these standards of decency to suggest that we (in the civilized, western world) are better than those "backward cultures" elsewhere?
Every single dead or wounded soldier or civilian is or was a human being, is/was the son or daughter of other human beings and quite possibly has other human beings depending upon them for love, support and livelihood.
Sky worry me - they have a lot of influence on their viewers and we may just come to regard their gutter reporting as the norm.
that said, if you want to see REALLY tastless reporting, the Spanish media take some beating. They show graphic, close ups of terrorist killings, the like of which I have NEVER before seen in European media and they do on-line, computer animations of how the latest ETA victim met their end. These are similar in feel to video games - yet they depict ACTUAL deaths - sickening.
I was not at all impressed at the end of GW1 when we were shown VERY graphic pictures of the carnage on the Basra highway.
I think that we are shown way too many images of death and mutilation in the press and on TV - I'm not squeamish but I do feel that there are certain boundaries to taste and decency.
After all, do we not often use these standards of decency to suggest that we (in the civilized, western world) are better than those "backward cultures" elsewhere?
Every single dead or wounded soldier or civilian is or was a human being, is/was the son or daughter of other human beings and quite possibly has other human beings depending upon them for love, support and livelihood.
Sky worry me - they have a lot of influence on their viewers and we may just come to regard their gutter reporting as the norm.
that said, if you want to see REALLY tastless reporting, the Spanish media take some beating. They show graphic, close ups of terrorist killings, the like of which I have NEVER before seen in European media and they do on-line, computer animations of how the latest ETA victim met their end. These are similar in feel to video games - yet they depict ACTUAL deaths - sickening.
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From: New Forrest
Broadcasting Standards
If you feel that you want to complain about UK news coverage
go to: WWW.BSC.ORG.UK
go to: WWW.BSC.ORG.UK
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Is there an address to complain about Prime Ministers comments?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/2893757.stm
UK Prime Minister Tony Blair earlier accused the Iraqi regime of "executing" the two men.
"If anyone needed any further evidence of the depravity of Saddam's regime, this atrocity provides it," he said at a joint news conference in the US with George W Bush.
"It is yet one more flagrant breach of all the proper conventions of war."
I'm sure the families of these brave men, who have been told they were missing, then that there was hope they were E+E, then told that they might be dead, then confirmed that they were dead, then have the PRIME MINISTER announce to the world that they were EXECUTED, has really helped then in the grieving process. Any feelings the families had, that their men had given their lives for a better Iraq, or had died courageously were crushed right there. What an awful vision, their men executed, in some sh1tty street by a mob they were trying to help.
All for Bluppet to gain some political smartie points in front of the worlds press. "America has had PW's executed, now we have too, see George, we're really side by side"
Or maybe the family had already been told the manner, and I'm getting very upset over nothing?
Rest in Peace. Whatever the manner of dying, you are still heroes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/2893757.stm
UK Prime Minister Tony Blair earlier accused the Iraqi regime of "executing" the two men.
"If anyone needed any further evidence of the depravity of Saddam's regime, this atrocity provides it," he said at a joint news conference in the US with George W Bush.
"It is yet one more flagrant breach of all the proper conventions of war."
I'm sure the families of these brave men, who have been told they were missing, then that there was hope they were E+E, then told that they might be dead, then confirmed that they were dead, then have the PRIME MINISTER announce to the world that they were EXECUTED, has really helped then in the grieving process. Any feelings the families had, that their men had given their lives for a better Iraq, or had died courageously were crushed right there. What an awful vision, their men executed, in some sh1tty street by a mob they were trying to help.
All for Bluppet to gain some political smartie points in front of the worlds press. "America has had PW's executed, now we have too, see George, we're really side by side"
Or maybe the family had already been told the manner, and I'm getting very upset over nothing?
Rest in Peace. Whatever the manner of dying, you are still heroes.
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: East Anglia
Personally I think the whole war from showing POW's on screen to bombing Baggers is an absolute disgrace.
I support the troops 100% and when (or if) they see images of that nature they must despair for their own future, I couldn't go along with this conflict from the start (one of the very few I haven't supported). I just hope and pray that 'Liberation' is swift and that all get their just desserts at the end of the day.
I support the troops 100% and when (or if) they see images of that nature they must despair for their own future, I couldn't go along with this conflict from the start (one of the very few I haven't supported). I just hope and pray that 'Liberation' is swift and that all get their just desserts at the end of the day.
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From: UK
Are you not being more than a little naive?solotk
Do you hide the fact that the Iraqui's deliberately, in cold blood, shot two of our men in the head? And what about the US guys who got the same despicable treatment?
The people who did this are not soldiers, they are murderers. It is NOT what you do in war and the world should know what the enemy is doing Iraq. "Solidiers" changing into civilian clothes and shooting at our guys. "Surrendering" and then killing our guys.
They DID execute real soldiers. They are war criminals and have to be bought to account. The families will want to know that wouldn't you say. They would certainly want to know the way it happened.
What the Iraqi's are doing is deserving of the worst kind of retribution but they will be treated properly, as POW's should be.
Nothing alters the fact that they are still heroes. God bless all our true fighting soldiers.
Do you hide the fact that the Iraqui's deliberately, in cold blood, shot two of our men in the head? And what about the US guys who got the same despicable treatment?
The people who did this are not soldiers, they are murderers. It is NOT what you do in war and the world should know what the enemy is doing Iraq. "Solidiers" changing into civilian clothes and shooting at our guys. "Surrendering" and then killing our guys.
They DID execute real soldiers. They are war criminals and have to be bought to account. The families will want to know that wouldn't you say. They would certainly want to know the way it happened.
What the Iraqi's are doing is deserving of the worst kind of retribution but they will be treated properly, as POW's should be.
Nothing alters the fact that they are still heroes. God bless all our true fighting soldiers.
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Am I Tom?
Have the forensic people already looked at the bodies, and come to that decision then? Very quick work if they did.
Without being technical, if you shoot at people in a Land Rover, or a truck, what is your point of aim? Of course the Iraqis are perfectly capable of executing people in cold blood, I would rather wait until a forensic scientist had made that statement. Just because they behave like degenerates, is no reason for us to go the same route "Moral High Ground" and all that.
Blair, went for the political points. He used the death of 2 Brave ,(and they were brave, they were EOD specialists) men, for political mileage, and attention grabbing soundbites.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...=12783733&meth od=full&siteid=50143
http://www.express.co.uk/story.html?...16725545587632
OUR LUKE WAS NOT EXECUTED
Mar 28 2003
By Stephen Moyes and James Hardy
THE heartbroken sister of ambushed soldier Luke Allsopp insisted last night: "My brother was not executed."
Nina Allsopp hit out at "lies" surrounding his death.
Grieving Nina - 29 today - said: "We have been told by the Army that Luke died in action.
"The Colonel from his barracks came around to our house to tell us he was not executed. Luke's Land Rover was ambushed and he died instantly.
"The Colonel told us he was doing what he could to set the record straight. We are very angry.
"It makes a big difference to us knowing that he died quickly. We can't understand why people are lying about what happened.
"It must be a mistake. It's important to us that people know the truth. That people know what really happened."
Have the forensic people already looked at the bodies, and come to that decision then? Very quick work if they did.
Without being technical, if you shoot at people in a Land Rover, or a truck, what is your point of aim? Of course the Iraqis are perfectly capable of executing people in cold blood, I would rather wait until a forensic scientist had made that statement. Just because they behave like degenerates, is no reason for us to go the same route "Moral High Ground" and all that.
Blair, went for the political points. He used the death of 2 Brave ,(and they were brave, they were EOD specialists) men, for political mileage, and attention grabbing soundbites.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...=12783733&meth od=full&siteid=50143
http://www.express.co.uk/story.html?...16725545587632
OUR LUKE WAS NOT EXECUTED
Mar 28 2003
By Stephen Moyes and James Hardy
THE heartbroken sister of ambushed soldier Luke Allsopp insisted last night: "My brother was not executed."
Nina Allsopp hit out at "lies" surrounding his death.
Grieving Nina - 29 today - said: "We have been told by the Army that Luke died in action.
"The Colonel from his barracks came around to our house to tell us he was not executed. Luke's Land Rover was ambushed and he died instantly.
"The Colonel told us he was doing what he could to set the record straight. We are very angry.
"It makes a big difference to us knowing that he died quickly. We can't understand why people are lying about what happened.
"It must be a mistake. It's important to us that people know the truth. That people know what really happened."
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From: England
Posted part of this on another forum folks but feel that it is relevant to this thread.
As the last post highlights, there is a statement in the press today from the Colonel of the regiment that the two unfortunate British soldiers belonged to that they were NOT executed, but rather died in combat after their vehicle was ambushed. This is important for their famalies to know. If they were executed it is a crime. It is also a crime if Blair was trying to score a few points with a little spin. They are saying the boys were executed because they were missing there Helmets and Flak jackets. If you were an iraqi soldier under fire from the coilition what would be the first spoils of war you would take from a dead British soldier if it might just save your arse. This is war, it happens, I have witnessed the 'gizzit' collecting myself in the last Gulf conflict. We need a proper examination of bodies before we jump to conclusions that shock the masses. We are whipping the troops up into a frenzy of emotion by the irresponsible, unproven statements in the media. We need to find out what happened, not react to what we think happened. These people all deserve our unswerving support, and that includes responsible media coverage(including statements by OUR prime president)
Everyone is getting so mad about the various coverage we are seeing of dead soldiers, parading of POW's etc. They(the media) are all as bad as each other. When we show disgusting things it's OK, when they show it - outrage! - and visa versa. It is all propoganda and you are all falling for it. I did not like the pictures of our dead british troops, or the parading of POW's. BUT! we did the same. The parading of Iraqi POW's, showing them lay down on the floor, full face shots whilst they are being searched. Thats pretty humiliating as well isn't it? They can be identified.
The pictures of the 2 dead Iraqi's in the trench with the white flag. Is that any less disgraceful than the photos of those two poor british lads yesterday? Even today in the tabloids they are calling the incident disgusting, and then blow me down, turn the next page in the same newspaper to see a picture of two US soldiers leaning over two dead Iraqi's in a bus. Faces and expression of death clearly visible(and identifiable). They are all a bunch of To****s who want to sell newspapers and get TV scoops. The politicians who will use any excuse to score propoganda will 'Spin' anything they can to make themselves feel justified are all w*****s. I have no problem with condeming Al Jazeera for what they show. But lets stop being a bunch of Hypocritical, self opinionated Bas****s!
As the last post highlights, there is a statement in the press today from the Colonel of the regiment that the two unfortunate British soldiers belonged to that they were NOT executed, but rather died in combat after their vehicle was ambushed. This is important for their famalies to know. If they were executed it is a crime. It is also a crime if Blair was trying to score a few points with a little spin. They are saying the boys were executed because they were missing there Helmets and Flak jackets. If you were an iraqi soldier under fire from the coilition what would be the first spoils of war you would take from a dead British soldier if it might just save your arse. This is war, it happens, I have witnessed the 'gizzit' collecting myself in the last Gulf conflict. We need a proper examination of bodies before we jump to conclusions that shock the masses. We are whipping the troops up into a frenzy of emotion by the irresponsible, unproven statements in the media. We need to find out what happened, not react to what we think happened. These people all deserve our unswerving support, and that includes responsible media coverage(including statements by OUR prime president)
Everyone is getting so mad about the various coverage we are seeing of dead soldiers, parading of POW's etc. They(the media) are all as bad as each other. When we show disgusting things it's OK, when they show it - outrage! - and visa versa. It is all propoganda and you are all falling for it. I did not like the pictures of our dead british troops, or the parading of POW's. BUT! we did the same. The parading of Iraqi POW's, showing them lay down on the floor, full face shots whilst they are being searched. Thats pretty humiliating as well isn't it? They can be identified.
The pictures of the 2 dead Iraqi's in the trench with the white flag. Is that any less disgraceful than the photos of those two poor british lads yesterday? Even today in the tabloids they are calling the incident disgusting, and then blow me down, turn the next page in the same newspaper to see a picture of two US soldiers leaning over two dead Iraqi's in a bus. Faces and expression of death clearly visible(and identifiable). They are all a bunch of To****s who want to sell newspapers and get TV scoops. The politicians who will use any excuse to score propoganda will 'Spin' anything they can to make themselves feel justified are all w*****s. I have no problem with condeming Al Jazeera for what they show. But lets stop being a bunch of Hypocritical, self opinionated Bas****s!
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From: NE Scotland
Pows on Parade
cast your mind back to 1991, Nicol & Peters wrote Tornado Down, Andy McNab wrote Bravo Two Zero, both books contain long and detailed descriptions of treatments meted out by the Ba 'ath Party to the prisoners in the cells to get them to talk. The fly boys held out for 24 hours before telling who they were. The regiment gang lasted eight days before starting to release information. Interestingly, according to Peters, the "interogators" were happy with simple info that could have come from anyone following the press reports or in possession of Jane's military aircraft of the world. Nonetheless, one now assumes the POWs are now having a pretty uncomfortable time of it in the cells.
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From: UK
Amid the huge amount of comment about the displaying of prisoners by the Iraqis to news media, nobody seems to have picked up on the positive aspect.
Once these prisoners' faces have been seen by the world as captives, their subsequent survival is assured, as they are known to be alive and cannot easily then be 'dissappeared.' If I were in the grim position of one of those prisoners I would be very relieved to get my face and name on the telly!
Once these prisoners' faces have been seen by the world as captives, their subsequent survival is assured, as they are known to be alive and cannot easily then be 'dissappeared.' If I were in the grim position of one of those prisoners I would be very relieved to get my face and name on the telly!
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From: home and abroad
Gravity Victim,
sorry to spoil the theory, but what if the Iraqi forces were to claim that coalition POW were killed as a result of a stray coalition bomb? And how can you prove otherwise?
Unfortunately, it is as has been said before: it only determines that they were still alive when it was taped. Nothing more.
sorry to spoil the theory, but what if the Iraqi forces were to claim that coalition POW were killed as a result of a stray coalition bomb? And how can you prove otherwise?
Unfortunately, it is as has been said before: it only determines that they were still alive when it was taped. Nothing more.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 594
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From: A PC!
Mr Blair says that the the two dead Brirtish sevicemen were executed, Luke Allsop's CO told his parents that he died (instantly) when his vehicle was attacked. One of them is not telling the truth.
If it is Mr Blair - then this kind of scaremongering is unforgiveable - if it was Luke's CO then he was trying to spare the anguish of the parents, anguish which Mr Blair then dumped upon them anyway. Pity we can't leave the bl**dy politicians out all together - given a chance I think that the two armies would settle it with a football match (as in WW1 at christmas).
I trust our lot not to torture and execute people - but but I don't trust our politicians as far as I could throw an Al Samoud 2 missile.
We expect dirty tricks from the Iraqis - dressing as civvies, pretending to surrender then launching an ambush, human shields and all that - but where are all those "weapons of mass destruction" that were going to be found all over Iraq? General Myers (US Chief of Staff) says "we will find them" - did he mean to add "even if we have to plant them"?
Mind you, I do worry about what may happen if it looks like Baghdad is going to be over run - if there are any dirty tricks up the sleeve, I would not be surprised to see them deployed.
If 1 week of intense warfare has only produced 350 Iraqi dead then that is a pretty good show on our part - and having seen footage of British and American medics treating Iraqi military and civilian casualties, I think this is our best hope of winning "hearts and minds".
Final analysis, in my opinion, is that Bush, Blair and Saddam are all equally to blame for any deaths that occur - there was no need to go in when they did - half-cocked, understrength and hopelessly optimistic on time frame. Thursday last week, Tony Blair said "we will be in Baghdad in 3-4 days", General Franks wanted 400,000 troops and Donald Rumsfeld told him he only needed 250,000 (now 100,000 more are on the way).
Politicians - please keep noses out, gobs shut and let the military clear up the mess you have created in the last week or so.
solotk:
try this link for number 10 website:
http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/page3.asp
gives you a number to phone or fax your thoughts (and the address, but I guess MOST of us can work out that it's "Number 10 Downing Street"!)
Apparently, you will soon be able to e-mail him!
maybe we could hack and delete him - Danny, you tracked those hackers down yet!
If it is Mr Blair - then this kind of scaremongering is unforgiveable - if it was Luke's CO then he was trying to spare the anguish of the parents, anguish which Mr Blair then dumped upon them anyway. Pity we can't leave the bl**dy politicians out all together - given a chance I think that the two armies would settle it with a football match (as in WW1 at christmas).
I trust our lot not to torture and execute people - but but I don't trust our politicians as far as I could throw an Al Samoud 2 missile.
We expect dirty tricks from the Iraqis - dressing as civvies, pretending to surrender then launching an ambush, human shields and all that - but where are all those "weapons of mass destruction" that were going to be found all over Iraq? General Myers (US Chief of Staff) says "we will find them" - did he mean to add "even if we have to plant them"?
Mind you, I do worry about what may happen if it looks like Baghdad is going to be over run - if there are any dirty tricks up the sleeve, I would not be surprised to see them deployed.
If 1 week of intense warfare has only produced 350 Iraqi dead then that is a pretty good show on our part - and having seen footage of British and American medics treating Iraqi military and civilian casualties, I think this is our best hope of winning "hearts and minds".
Final analysis, in my opinion, is that Bush, Blair and Saddam are all equally to blame for any deaths that occur - there was no need to go in when they did - half-cocked, understrength and hopelessly optimistic on time frame. Thursday last week, Tony Blair said "we will be in Baghdad in 3-4 days", General Franks wanted 400,000 troops and Donald Rumsfeld told him he only needed 250,000 (now 100,000 more are on the way).
Politicians - please keep noses out, gobs shut and let the military clear up the mess you have created in the last week or so.
solotk:
try this link for number 10 website:
http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/page3.asp
gives you a number to phone or fax your thoughts (and the address, but I guess MOST of us can work out that it's "Number 10 Downing Street"!)
Apparently, you will soon be able to e-mail him!
maybe we could hack and delete him - Danny, you tracked those hackers down yet!