Misinformation or Treason??
The one major benefit of the "embedded" press will be the positive effects that will accrue from the press types living alongside the troops and connecting to them by sharing the risks. It is bound to happen....combat has that effect on us. There will be negative reporting but I believe it will be much less a problem than in previous wars. That alone is worth the problems we are discussing here. The press can only become involved in the process.....and that can only prove beneficial.
But why oh why.....could not Dan Blather be the sole victim of a Blue on Blue incident involving a MOAB? Or maybe Heraldo Rivera....Alec Baldwin....Barbara Streisand.....Susan Saranden....oops....I digress!
But why oh why.....could not Dan Blather be the sole victim of a Blue on Blue incident involving a MOAB? Or maybe Heraldo Rivera....Alec Baldwin....Barbara Streisand.....Susan Saranden....oops....I digress!
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B 52
On a slight tangent, is it wise for the BBC to show live footage of B52s getting airbourne from Fairford.
We all know that Iraq has little in the way of radars and are probably keeping the ones they have turned off most of the time to avoid being on the receiving end of a HARM/ALARM. But If I were them I would consider something like a B52 a priority target and knowing they were inbound I would be tempted to do some sums as to when to have a quick peek on the scope.
Anyone got any thoughts?
We all know that Iraq has little in the way of radars and are probably keeping the ones they have turned off most of the time to avoid being on the receiving end of a HARM/ALARM. But If I were them I would consider something like a B52 a priority target and knowing they were inbound I would be tempted to do some sums as to when to have a quick peek on the scope.
Anyone got any thoughts?
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ASRAAM
I believe the B52's are being used in a standoff role and throwing cruise missiles over the fence as there is still a reasonable anti-aircraft threat. This will change as the boys give the place a tickle up and shut down the Iraq military. Once again as per my previous post showing live footage is one thing, but these aircraft are flying through civil airspace, talking on civil frequencies and essentially anyone who wants to know...can. This would change if there was higher perceived threat ie. North Korea, and the ops would be far more subversive.
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Cut the Crap!
Captain of HMS Ark Royal just elucidated on BBC1 TV on the two Sea Kings lost this morning. Exactly how ALL reporting should be done, straight from the horses mouth.
This stops all rumours, wrongful reporting, and would save a lot of time and resources too and probably lives.
Captain of HMS Ark Royal just elucidated on BBC1 TV on the two Sea Kings lost this morning. Exactly how ALL reporting should be done, straight from the horses mouth.
This stops all rumours, wrongful reporting, and would save a lot of time and resources too and probably lives.
Still on the press, personally think that the 'Daily Mirror's' reporting has been almost treasonous. Perhaps we should think of boycotting the rag. I understand about the freedom of speech etc, but after watching mr Morgan on question time on Thursday, they should put him in the Tower.
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If the media are permitted to divulge so much ostensibly sensitive information, why can't Blair release sufficient of whatever threat information he has to convince the unconvinced half of the population that he is right? If he has more he should release more and the doubters like me would be silenced. 
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Fox, I misunderstood you. I am with you all the way, absolute annonimity.
Asram, on the B52 incident I too initially thought as you did but the peaceniks can have baddies with them even listening in to Fairford radio. They cannot just call the launch but also the weapons load.
Unless we extend security zones around the airfield we are stuck. The bonus, OTOH, is that it was reported that they were bombing up 24 hours earlier. This at least puts the enemy on notice and ensures they can get a good night's sleep as there will be no surprises
Asram, on the B52 incident I too initially thought as you did but the peaceniks can have baddies with them even listening in to Fairford radio. They cannot just call the launch but also the weapons load.
Unless we extend security zones around the airfield we are stuck. The bonus, OTOH, is that it was reported that they were bombing up 24 hours earlier. This at least puts the enemy on notice and ensures they can get a good night's sleep as there will be no surprises
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Get Real
Stop moaning and enjoy the fireworks.
The more the Iraqi High Command know about what is about to hit them the better. The whole idea of this war is not to kill conscripts and destroy their military capability so that we have to defend them for the next however many years, but to convince them to lay down their arms so we can get in there and topple the regime (the stated military objective). Or better still that they topple it themselves.
If that means getting CNN and SKY to show exactly what we are about to do to them to assist in the psychological warfare then great because it also gives us a great picture back home.
War isn't always about covert operations. Even the SAS in Afghanistan were being totally overt to frighten the Cr@p out of the enemy. There have been reports about them driving around in the open with huge Union Jacks flying above.
The sooner the Iraqis realise that the regime's days are numbered the better. The less chance of any more accidents....
Me, I'm off with a beer to sit and watch the display again. The rest you sad muppets can stay at your PC's bleating on.
And before anyone says anything the only reason I was here was that I was waiting for an insurance quote to process and just had to comment!
The more the Iraqi High Command know about what is about to hit them the better. The whole idea of this war is not to kill conscripts and destroy their military capability so that we have to defend them for the next however many years, but to convince them to lay down their arms so we can get in there and topple the regime (the stated military objective). Or better still that they topple it themselves.
If that means getting CNN and SKY to show exactly what we are about to do to them to assist in the psychological warfare then great because it also gives us a great picture back home.
War isn't always about covert operations. Even the SAS in Afghanistan were being totally overt to frighten the Cr@p out of the enemy. There have been reports about them driving around in the open with huge Union Jacks flying above.
The sooner the Iraqis realise that the regime's days are numbered the better. The less chance of any more accidents....
Me, I'm off with a beer to sit and watch the display again. The rest you sad muppets can stay at your PC's bleating on.
And before anyone says anything the only reason I was here was that I was waiting for an insurance quote to process and just had to comment!
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I remember an incident a few years ago during the Falklands, pinging on the screen at about 0200 listening to the world service on the old HF getting the good gossip on what had happened when the presenter anounced that the Brits would be attacking Goose Green the next morning!!
And we all know at what that cost!!
I agree that in this day of instant communication form any point on earth there is an expectation of quick reporting to keep all the voters happy BUT it should be reporting of what has happened not what is about to.
If you tell someone what is about to happen even if it is a major toasting by superior forces it gives them time to prepare or run away, leaving nasty suprises, to fight another day.
Our forces would be overjoyed to know that the next missile attack is on £%$£^ or that reinforcements ar heading to (*&^, so why do we do it for them??
People get killed as a direct result of press coverage/leakage and the press justify it with claims of fredom of information.
It Sucks!
And we all know at what that cost!!
I agree that in this day of instant communication form any point on earth there is an expectation of quick reporting to keep all the voters happy BUT it should be reporting of what has happened not what is about to.
If you tell someone what is about to happen even if it is a major toasting by superior forces it gives them time to prepare or run away, leaving nasty suprises, to fight another day.
Our forces would be overjoyed to know that the next missile attack is on £%$£^ or that reinforcements ar heading to (*&^, so why do we do it for them??
People get killed as a direct result of press coverage/leakage and the press justify it with claims of fredom of information.
It Sucks!
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Kpax
I share your distaste for the "Mirror" and its editor, especially after his performance on "Question Time", so, to pinch a quote from a recent Radio 4 quiz programme (by the mouth of Tim Rice I believe?):-
The Definition of "countryside"??
Murdering Piers Morgan
boom-boom
I share your distaste for the "Mirror" and its editor, especially after his performance on "Question Time", so, to pinch a quote from a recent Radio 4 quiz programme (by the mouth of Tim Rice I believe?):-
The Definition of "countryside"??
Murdering Piers Morgan
boom-boom
This visors down anonymity is all well and good, and is probably wise when there's a chance of falling into enemy hands. But the risk of retaliation afterwards is over-stated (Al Qaeda aren't going to be interested in tracking down Corporal So-and-so in five years time), while the downside is that it reduces the general public's feeling that the armed forces are its armed forces, diluting the sympathy and support which the public has for 'its boys'. PR stories about Flight Lieutenant Bader from Kent, for example, are invaluable in making the people of Kent feel that the RAF is 'its RAF' and that it represents and defends them. When anonymity is necessary, fine, but hats off to the Harrier boys in this campaign who have had the ball$ to speak to the media on camera while showing their faces and even their names.
I don't remember Guy Gibson wearing his goggles and oxygen masks for the press photos, and he had the Gestapo to worry about.
I don't remember Guy Gibson wearing his goggles and oxygen masks for the press photos, and he had the Gestapo to worry about.
All this journobashing reminds me of nothing more than a case of old-fashioned spy mania - like the people in Paris in 1940 and in God knows how many other places convinced that nonexistent fifth columnists were flashing little torches to the Nazis, or the folk at the same time who nearly lynched a British journalist because they saw him with a packet of pills for his guts (poison, clearly), or the British soldiers who wanted to shoot Al Deere (NZ ace and later AVM) after he baled out over the Dunkirk perimeter -he was obviously a German agent! All a laugh, in retrospect, but dangerously hysterical, and a very good reason for a witch hunt of anyone you don't like. (In 1940 this meant the French Surete du Territoire locking up exiled anti-fascists and Jews in camps.)
Skaz, I believe they have compulsory military service in Iraq....so perhaps your little goatherder might have heard the odd armoured vehicle, no? Surely not impossible that their training might even include recognition! Or is it that they're just ignorant inferior goatherding rag'eads and incapable of anything so civilised and western? That was one of the worst, arrogant, awful posts I've seen on this forum.
Skaz, I believe they have compulsory military service in Iraq....so perhaps your little goatherder might have heard the odd armoured vehicle, no? Surely not impossible that their training might even include recognition! Or is it that they're just ignorant inferior goatherding rag'eads and incapable of anything so civilised and western? That was one of the worst, arrogant, awful posts I've seen on this forum.
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steamckicken sez:"Or is it that they're just ignorant inferior goatherding rag'eads and incapable of anything so civilised and western? "
thats right....start a wind-up, and you call me arrogant. Wind your neck in, who you calling *******s? any idea what my religion is? while we nuke the whole lot.....or wil that be even worse and arrogant?
Plenty countries have compulsory military service, does that mean the mean any individual in the populace can identify armoured vehicles.
War's war....sentimentality has got no place in it. Catch a wake up or get outta the steamroom
thats right....start a wind-up, and you call me arrogant. Wind your neck in, who you calling *******s? any idea what my religion is? while we nuke the whole lot.....or wil that be even worse and arrogant?
Plenty countries have compulsory military service, does that mean the mean any individual in the populace can identify armoured vehicles.
War's war....sentimentality has got no place in it. Catch a wake up or get outta the steamroom
Last edited by Flt Lt Pprune; 23rd Mar 2003 at 20:59.
