View Poll Results: Would you encourage your child to join the military?
Yes
124
55.86%
No
90
40.54%
Unsure
8
3.60%
Voters: 222. This poll is closed
Would you encourage your child to join the military?
Thread Starter
Would you encourage your child to join the military?
I saw a TV programme on the MOD a couple of years ago that mentioned a survey in which it was found that approx 90% of UK military personnel would not encourage their child to join. How do you feel?
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Whilst the RAF is merely a shadow of the service I served the rest of society has also changed.
I still believe there is no better job from which to learn self discipline, teamwork and professional skills. RAF flying training is still the best and there are some fine people left serving. If only they were better served by their senior officers.
On balance, nothing is as it was but the RAF is still a good place for any sprog of mine.
I still believe there is no better job from which to learn self discipline, teamwork and professional skills. RAF flying training is still the best and there are some fine people left serving. If only they were better served by their senior officers.
On balance, nothing is as it was but the RAF is still a good place for any sprog of mine.
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No
I PVR'd almost as soon as I could. Working for turkeys and drawing separation allowance on a home based non-frontline appointment were the end markers.
As BEagle says, it's not the outfit I joined 50 years ago. But as a cold war warrior, I am happy that I did my bit.
But I have endless admiration for and envy of the frontline aircrew who strut their stuff today. They really are something special.
It's when the gloss wears off and the scramble for the meagre chances of promotion and responsibility are competed for that the idealists' dreams crumble.
Money is not the answer. Recognition and appreciation are worth so much more.
You have to take the long view and that is that there are simply not enough opportunities in the middle piece and above for the talent that you need in the junior officer/aircrew on the front line. The disillusionment that follows is inevitable.
As BEagle says, it's not the outfit I joined 50 years ago. But as a cold war warrior, I am happy that I did my bit.
But I have endless admiration for and envy of the frontline aircrew who strut their stuff today. They really are something special.
It's when the gloss wears off and the scramble for the meagre chances of promotion and responsibility are competed for that the idealists' dreams crumble.
Money is not the answer. Recognition and appreciation are worth so much more.
You have to take the long view and that is that there are simply not enough opportunities in the middle piece and above for the talent that you need in the junior officer/aircrew on the front line. The disillusionment that follows is inevitable.
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Not a chance!
The military is, and always will be a 'face fits' organisation where an ability to do the job doesn't always mean moving up the promotion scale. If either of my kids have aspirations to be succesful at anything then the military is the last place that will do them any good. You're nothing but a small cog in a big machine and so your true potential isn't realised - to the detriment of your career and, more importantly, income.
After leaving the RAF seven years ago I've nearly trebled my income doing my dream job - the job the military said I wasn't good enough to do inside its hallowed doors. If that doesn't prove the above point then I don't know what does
Am I bitter about 15 wasted years - not totally, but only because I've had the last laugh
CM
The military is, and always will be a 'face fits' organisation where an ability to do the job doesn't always mean moving up the promotion scale. If either of my kids have aspirations to be succesful at anything then the military is the last place that will do them any good. You're nothing but a small cog in a big machine and so your true potential isn't realised - to the detriment of your career and, more importantly, income.
After leaving the RAF seven years ago I've nearly trebled my income doing my dream job - the job the military said I wasn't good enough to do inside its hallowed doors. If that doesn't prove the above point then I don't know what does
Am I bitter about 15 wasted years - not totally, but only because I've had the last laugh
CM
Encourage, no. But if they had a real desire to join any of the UK services, especially the RAF, then they would have my whole hearted support. I was always very conscious that I did not want my children to become bore-sighted on what I had done. Therefore, I have tried to ensure that they have an appreciation of a wide spectrum of life and not just military flying. Within this framework they have developed a great liking and appreciation for military aircraft. And if they do want to fly professionally, the RAF will, I am sure, always provide the best training available, even if it is not as good as it once was. But I will make sure that they think through the long term options because it certainly is not a job for life! Milk it for all you can, like learning to fly, then get a life!!!
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Although its no longer part of our job description as VR(T) bods, or part of the ATC aims, RAF recruitment is kind of unofficially part of the whole reason for existance of the ATC / ACO.
I'd say only about 10% of my cadets are actively interested in joining up, and in fact many of them tend to go for the Army rather than the RAF. (why are they in the ATC is what I wonder?!)
Looking at the RAF from the outside, I'd say there is still an awfull lot that it can offer, as long as the applicant is completely aware of what they are signing up for, and I think that is the whole problem - the applicants haven't a clue... I know from past experience, that the more experienced ones on this board can be quite "jaded" about the RAF as it is now, as it's not what they joined - which it clearly isn't. I think they would still see positives in the RAF though, and honestly that is what I try to "sell" to any cadets who are interested. I just wish recruitment material would be honest, but then that doesn't give the RAF a nice glossy corparate image, and would be rather unappealing to the prospective employee.....
I'd say only about 10% of my cadets are actively interested in joining up, and in fact many of them tend to go for the Army rather than the RAF. (why are they in the ATC is what I wonder?!)
Looking at the RAF from the outside, I'd say there is still an awfull lot that it can offer, as long as the applicant is completely aware of what they are signing up for, and I think that is the whole problem - the applicants haven't a clue... I know from past experience, that the more experienced ones on this board can be quite "jaded" about the RAF as it is now, as it's not what they joined - which it clearly isn't. I think they would still see positives in the RAF though, and honestly that is what I try to "sell" to any cadets who are interested. I just wish recruitment material would be honest, but then that doesn't give the RAF a nice glossy corparate image, and would be rather unappealing to the prospective employee.....
For a while at least I did the best job in the world - no questions. In 40years time I won't remember the SDO's and secondary duties. I will remember 100ft through the highlands, sticks of CBUs and stunt VSTOL. Would I recommend it - you bet I would!
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A lot of people (judging by the poll results) wouldn't recommend joining up, but do you think this will change?
The RAF recently had some reports done on their problems with fast jet pilot shortages, namely that pilots are usually a hell of a lot better paid in the airlines, and leave the RAF after the minimum period of service expected of them. The forces are also thought of by many as being elitist, and there’s also the element of ‘I couldn’t stand being shouted at 24/7'.
Any thoughts on whether the RAF will increase the pilots' pay, improve conditions, and maybe shrug off the image it share with the other services?
The RAF recently had some reports done on their problems with fast jet pilot shortages, namely that pilots are usually a hell of a lot better paid in the airlines, and leave the RAF after the minimum period of service expected of them. The forces are also thought of by many as being elitist, and there’s also the element of ‘I couldn’t stand being shouted at 24/7'.
Any thoughts on whether the RAF will increase the pilots' pay, improve conditions, and maybe shrug off the image it share with the other services?
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I did 22 years as a "Cold War Warrior", left as a Ch/Tech 20 years ago, and would do my utmost to deter any child of mine joining today's mob UNLESS he/she was accepted as a Commissioned Officer. There is no way I would wish on my offspring some of the utter bulls**t I put up with, usually from some still-wet-behind- the-ears sprog still learning to stand.
That said, I still miss most of it, not so much the technical side of a working life as the "soldiering" part on exercise and Tacevals, surprisingly!!
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
That said, I still miss most of it, not so much the technical side of a working life as the "soldiering" part on exercise and Tacevals, surprisingly!!
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
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If my kids showed any interest in joining (as commissioned aircrew), I'd back them to the hilt. Of course, I'd warn them about the illusory benefits of promotion and the self-interested and political management style of their Airships, but I could, as a third generation RAF officer, show them the evidence that nothing is new under the blue Ensign.
The fact is that the training and lifestyle is, for those who make the most of what's available, far better than almost anything available outside. No way would I suggest that they should devote their lives to the military - there's lots to be gained by taking that training and experience into the wider world by about 30 years of age.
Military life, for those with a suitably balanced and healthily cynical point of view, is great while you're young. As you get older, comfort and security become more important - and the risks that military life presents become less acceptable. But there's no better way to get a really broad-based perspective on the problems of life, the universe and everything.
I'd recommend it.
The fact is that the training and lifestyle is, for those who make the most of what's available, far better than almost anything available outside. No way would I suggest that they should devote their lives to the military - there's lots to be gained by taking that training and experience into the wider world by about 30 years of age.
Military life, for those with a suitably balanced and healthily cynical point of view, is great while you're young. As you get older, comfort and security become more important - and the risks that military life presents become less acceptable. But there's no better way to get a really broad-based perspective on the problems of life, the universe and everything.
I'd recommend it.
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I'm with Beagle; the air force[s] I served in no longer exist in the form that they were, and while my son had a slight asthma problem as a small boy it had long since ceased to be a problem by the 7th Form, but he refused to 'fudge' the answer when asked, so I should be pleased his integrity was inherited!
He knows from meeting former colleagues of mine, both winged and not, that I had the utmost respect for all of them. That wained somewhat in the last of my 25 years when Direct Entry idiots came to power!
Though a total aerophile, he now, at 26, has other interests!
He knows from meeting former colleagues of mine, both winged and not, that I had the utmost respect for all of them. That wained somewhat in the last of my 25 years when Direct Entry idiots came to power!
Though a total aerophile, he now, at 26, has other interests!
Nemesis of the Proot Dynasty
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I’ve held back from contributing to this topic, since I must declare a somewhat biased (or jaundiced) viewpoint.
I left the R.A.F. in 1973 as a Sergeant (qualified Ch Tech), since, after years of frustration, I could see no further career prospects in the R.A.F., even had I stayed on to complete 22 years. At the time I left, I had considerably more academic qualifications than required for a commission, a CPL and exemplary record. I was turned down for aircrew 5 times, despite on 4 occasions completing the full OASC selection process successfully. During my early career, I was told during numerous official interviews, that if I gained the requisite academic qualifications, I would (in all probability) be accepted for a commission/aircrew. As I have already said, I did, in abundance. Did this achieve the desired effect? No, dear friends, it did not! In the end, I gave up in disgust and left. Since then, I have had a very satisfying and, dare I say it, senior career in the real world and am very financially secure. When I do decide to retire, I will retire on a larger package than the Chief of the Air Staff. So who is the joke really on? Oh! By the way, I was a Cockney, raised in Hackney, East London. Might this have had a bearing on things?????
Did I encourage any of my children to join the British services (they all have degrees). NOT ON YOUR BL**DY LIFE! The only one who wanted to fly, joined the U.S. Air Force, with my total encouragement.
I left the R.A.F. in 1973 as a Sergeant (qualified Ch Tech), since, after years of frustration, I could see no further career prospects in the R.A.F., even had I stayed on to complete 22 years. At the time I left, I had considerably more academic qualifications than required for a commission, a CPL and exemplary record. I was turned down for aircrew 5 times, despite on 4 occasions completing the full OASC selection process successfully. During my early career, I was told during numerous official interviews, that if I gained the requisite academic qualifications, I would (in all probability) be accepted for a commission/aircrew. As I have already said, I did, in abundance. Did this achieve the desired effect? No, dear friends, it did not! In the end, I gave up in disgust and left. Since then, I have had a very satisfying and, dare I say it, senior career in the real world and am very financially secure. When I do decide to retire, I will retire on a larger package than the Chief of the Air Staff. So who is the joke really on? Oh! By the way, I was a Cockney, raised in Hackney, East London. Might this have had a bearing on things?????
Did I encourage any of my children to join the British services (they all have degrees). NOT ON YOUR BL**DY LIFE! The only one who wanted to fly, joined the U.S. Air Force, with my total encouragement.
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I myself am looking upon joining this year, though what disturbs me (and has been mentioned previous) is this 'face fits' type of thought which I hear happens.
I mean, is there still an elitist attitude within the 'officer corps' whereby you need to have come from the right background?
I mean, is there still an elitist attitude within the 'officer corps' whereby you need to have come from the right background?
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Big Cheese, don't worry, whereas the Army works on right school, good family and polo handicap; the face that fits in the Air Farce is far from elitist, more like a comprehensive educated, brown noser who wears polyester suits with homer simpson ties!
Join up, get to Flt Lt and enjoy life!
Join up, get to Flt Lt and enjoy life!
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Don't worry Big Cheese, it isn't an elitist organisation at all. But being good at your primary duty isn't enough to get you promoted. You have to "prove a broader ability" (brown nosing) despite the extra pressures on family life etc you are still expected to put in all hours. Great when you are young and probably single but as already stated by some, priorities tend to change as you get older. Unfortunately some of those higher up still can't see that and expect everyone to be the same as them.
What we really need is a damn good war to weed out the chaff.....
(oh, sorry we are about to have one)
What we really need is a damn good war to weed out the chaff.....
(oh, sorry we are about to have one)
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What else are we supposed to do?
If you guys are not going to encourage your children to join up then what else would you like them to do.
I am probably young enough to be classed as some of your children (23yo) and i joined the Navy (as a pilot) because i wanted to serve my country and also to have a lot of fun whilst i did it. If this is either by flying upside down in a firefly whilst solo, formation flying in a jet, or flying low-level in a junglie at 100kts then, or getting the chance to go on expeditions whilst on hold then i still think i have the best job going.
I left a good university with a good degree and could have gone on to do many careers in the city, or in the civilian flying world, but i chose to do what i wanted to do. I am in a well paid job (£31000 at age 23 is not bad going) and having a damn good time. I am sure the point will come when i want to settle down but whilst i am young free and single i wouldn't want to be anywhere else.
Some jobs have their good sides. All jobs have their bad sides. In 10, 20 or 50 years time i will not remember the bad times, and in the 2 years i have served there have been many good times.
The Navy/RAF is not what it used to be, and never will be again. I never knew what it was like then so i can only go on what i know now.
Who would not have loved to have been a spitfire pilot during WWII, or have flown a buccaneer off a carrier - but these opportunities don't exist anymore but i am doing the next best thing our generation can do.
So come on guys. You are supposed to be our inspiration. The guys who can take us fresh-faced pilots, instill the traditions you have carried, give us knowledge, spin us some salty dits (or stories), and let us be proud in the decision we have taken.
TR
PS any ideas for jobs that include excitement, good pay, opportunities to go on expeds, a good bunch of workmates, and a uniform smart enough to get a degree in smartness from cambridge university, then let me know - my civvy mates would love to apply.
I am probably young enough to be classed as some of your children (23yo) and i joined the Navy (as a pilot) because i wanted to serve my country and also to have a lot of fun whilst i did it. If this is either by flying upside down in a firefly whilst solo, formation flying in a jet, or flying low-level in a junglie at 100kts then, or getting the chance to go on expeditions whilst on hold then i still think i have the best job going.
I left a good university with a good degree and could have gone on to do many careers in the city, or in the civilian flying world, but i chose to do what i wanted to do. I am in a well paid job (£31000 at age 23 is not bad going) and having a damn good time. I am sure the point will come when i want to settle down but whilst i am young free and single i wouldn't want to be anywhere else.
Some jobs have their good sides. All jobs have their bad sides. In 10, 20 or 50 years time i will not remember the bad times, and in the 2 years i have served there have been many good times.
The Navy/RAF is not what it used to be, and never will be again. I never knew what it was like then so i can only go on what i know now.
Who would not have loved to have been a spitfire pilot during WWII, or have flown a buccaneer off a carrier - but these opportunities don't exist anymore but i am doing the next best thing our generation can do.
So come on guys. You are supposed to be our inspiration. The guys who can take us fresh-faced pilots, instill the traditions you have carried, give us knowledge, spin us some salty dits (or stories), and let us be proud in the decision we have taken.
TR
PS any ideas for jobs that include excitement, good pay, opportunities to go on expeds, a good bunch of workmates, and a uniform smart enough to get a degree in smartness from cambridge university, then let me know - my civvy mates would love to apply.
Thread Starter
Thud Ridge
You are young, free, probably single and having a great time. When you are old enough to have a teenage child your opinion as to whether or not to encourage them to join up may, or may not, have changed. Feel free to start a similar thread to this in 10-15 years time and tell us, or our children, your feelings then.
You are young, free, probably single and having a great time. When you are old enough to have a teenage child your opinion as to whether or not to encourage them to join up may, or may not, have changed. Feel free to start a similar thread to this in 10-15 years time and tell us, or our children, your feelings then.
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Biggus,
So you wouldn't encourage your child to join up when he/she is young free and single, get everything he/she can get out of the forces for a few years, and then leave having served there country, had a good time, and maybe with a few hundred/thousand hours of flying hours under their belt?
TR
So you wouldn't encourage your child to join up when he/she is young free and single, get everything he/she can get out of the forces for a few years, and then leave having served there country, had a good time, and maybe with a few hundred/thousand hours of flying hours under their belt?
TR