France: la gloire de ses armes
Baron,
Learn to spell and to construct a sentence. You'll be amazed at how much more seriuosly people will take your views.
Just for the record, I've held a gun and been to war. I happen to think that war, in this cae, is the right course of action. Sadly, Bliar has blurred his case with some poor spin-doctoring. I also believe that France and Germany should be standing up to their obligations under the NATO treaty.
However, I think you may have missed the whole point of this thread. If you need it explaining to you, then there is no point.
Learn to spell and to construct a sentence. You'll be amazed at how much more seriuosly people will take your views.
Just for the record, I've held a gun and been to war. I happen to think that war, in this cae, is the right course of action. Sadly, Bliar has blurred his case with some poor spin-doctoring. I also believe that France and Germany should be standing up to their obligations under the NATO treaty.
However, I think you may have missed the whole point of this thread. If you need it explaining to you, then there is no point.
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Spruce, this comment from a journalist sounds like the rest of the cra* sold in the Sun .
You could easily recycle there! very very funy
very smart Max !
waiting for you on the French speaking forum.
By the way, none less then 3 spelling mistakes in your message , great
You could easily recycle there! very very funy
very smart Max !
waiting for you on the French speaking forum.
By the way, none less then 3 spelling mistakes in your message , great
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Baron Rouge,
So you were in combat in your Jaguar 25 years ago, in the civil war in Chad perhaps?
I seem to remember the French being involved in a war in that part of the world. To be frank, I can recall France being involved in several air campaigns in North Africa. None of which they asked the UN to sanction.
There would seem to be more than a touch of hypocrisy I feel.
So you were in combat in your Jaguar 25 years ago, in the civil war in Chad perhaps?
I seem to remember the French being involved in a war in that part of the world. To be frank, I can recall France being involved in several air campaigns in North Africa. None of which they asked the UN to sanction.
There would seem to be more than a touch of hypocrisy I feel.
Last edited by ORAC; 17th Feb 2003 at 14:04.
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wasn't it the french who went up the wall when the Germans were allowed to rearm...
wasnt it the French who wanted no part of the sandy shin dig in 91...
wasnt it the French who gave permission to open a refugee campsite next to the channel tunnel....
Isnt it the french who sell sell sell weapons to anybody opposing the western world!!!!
Isnt it the French who think that a united Europe is in fact French... with the germans as younger brother.
And what have the french ever done for us............hmmmm.
Vive la France!!!!!
wasnt it the French who wanted no part of the sandy shin dig in 91...
wasnt it the French who gave permission to open a refugee campsite next to the channel tunnel....
Isnt it the french who sell sell sell weapons to anybody opposing the western world!!!!
Isnt it the French who think that a united Europe is in fact French... with the germans as younger brother.
And what have the french ever done for us............hmmmm.
Vive la France!!!!!
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Baron,
FYI, I don't work for the Sun - I'm a journalist. Most Brits would understand the difference.
I'm not quite sure what cra* you were referring to in my original message; you clearly display that you have no sense of humour and you did lose the rugby, so my argument is fair.
The thing I object to is that your government is trying to take the moral high-ground on the Iraq issue; I actually agree with you that Blair is wrong to blindly follow Bush into this campaign, but don't agree that France is some great champion for World peace. Perhaps someone should tell your ambassador to the UN that you can only be sanctimonious like that before you conduct illegal nuclear tests and sink Greenpeace ships!
FYI, I don't work for the Sun - I'm a journalist. Most Brits would understand the difference.
I'm not quite sure what cra* you were referring to in my original message; you clearly display that you have no sense of humour and you did lose the rugby, so my argument is fair.
The thing I object to is that your government is trying to take the moral high-ground on the Iraq issue; I actually agree with you that Blair is wrong to blindly follow Bush into this campaign, but don't agree that France is some great champion for World peace. Perhaps someone should tell your ambassador to the UN that you can only be sanctimonious like that before you conduct illegal nuclear tests and sink Greenpeace ships!
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Gosh! I didn't realise when I started this topic that there are people around who don't like the French.
In the interests of balance, I must remind everyone that France has a proud history of military victories, such as the sinking of the unarmed protest vessel "Rainbow Warrior" which was moored at the time in Auckland Harbour. If the night watchman had chosen that night to come back early from the pub, this could have been a very close run affair!
In the interests of balance, I must remind everyone that France has a proud history of military victories, such as the sinking of the unarmed protest vessel "Rainbow Warrior" which was moored at the time in Auckland Harbour. If the night watchman had chosen that night to come back early from the pub, this could have been a very close run affair!
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A quote from the Baron:
"What a fait indeed to pour bombs on unarmed citizens of IRAK once you have made sure they have no arm to defend themselves."
The hypocrisy in that statement is flabbergasting, given that the Rainbow Warrior was sunk by the French.
Vive la Farce.
"What a fait indeed to pour bombs on unarmed citizens of IRAK once you have made sure they have no arm to defend themselves."
The hypocrisy in that statement is flabbergasting, given that the Rainbow Warrior was sunk by the French.
Vive la Farce.
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The main problem with the Brits, I mean those xenophobic gentlements writing in this forum, is not their big mouth, but their tiny brain.
They have no memory at all, they think they are the best especially at twenty to one.
They support their lousy prime minister caught red handed with forged so called proofs.
( Even his party members were ashamed of him.)
They forgot the way Brits slaughtered nearly all human beings in North America, Australia and New Zealand, and then dare speak in the name of Free World…
They have no memory at all, they think they are the best especially at twenty to one.
They support their lousy prime minister caught red handed with forged so called proofs.
( Even his party members were ashamed of him.)
They forgot the way Brits slaughtered nearly all human beings in North America, Australia and New Zealand, and then dare speak in the name of Free World…
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Come, Come, Baron,
I'm not xenophobic. You'll find my first post was in riposte to an insult against the French. I have the utmost respect for all those in their armed services whom I have met and worked with over the years.
You response, on the other hand, seems a trifle xenophobic itself. I fear you have fallen into the trap of descending to the level of some of the posters. You should not let them goad you into such a response.
The accusation levelled, however, albeit provocatively, was one of hypocrisy. How do you respond?
And I would really like an answer as to where you did your combat flying back in the 70s...........
I'm not xenophobic. You'll find my first post was in riposte to an insult against the French. I have the utmost respect for all those in their armed services whom I have met and worked with over the years.
You response, on the other hand, seems a trifle xenophobic itself. I fear you have fallen into the trap of descending to the level of some of the posters. You should not let them goad you into such a response.
The accusation levelled, however, albeit provocatively, was one of hypocrisy. How do you respond?
And I would really like an answer as to where you did your combat flying back in the 70s...........
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Was it not the French who resupplied the Argentinians with spare parts for the Etendards and exocet missiles to arm them.........DURING the Falklands War?
If France and Germany do not want to support NATO and honour their obligations then they should be expelled. Then watch them squirm when Saddam seeks exile in either country!
Baron, I think you will find that the majority of people who post on the Military Aircrew forum have been involved in a significant amount of warfare either with the RAF, Royal Navy, Royal Marines or Army.
If France and Germany do not want to support NATO and honour their obligations then they should be expelled. Then watch them squirm when Saddam seeks exile in either country!
Baron, I think you will find that the majority of people who post on the Military Aircrew forum have been involved in a significant amount of warfare either with the RAF, Royal Navy, Royal Marines or Army.
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ORAC, you are right but I felt sort of cornered in a dark spot surounded by vicious B...
First of all those war in nortern Africa didn't need UN support as we were there at the request of the legal governement of these countries.(TCHAD and MAURITANIA).
And this is not the case with IRAK.
Should I remind the honorable KENNYR, that the Argentinian were not resupplied during the Falkland War and that, on the only five exocet missiles received by the Navy,
was writen : "made in England" as you should know this missile is Anglo/french.
On the other hand the french Navy and Airforce provided ample combat training versus mirages and etendard for the Harrier guys before they went out there.
In the end to compare the ludicrous sinking of a fishing boat to a war involving more then 300 000 soldiers isn't really fair, especially for all the poor inocent victims.
First of all those war in nortern Africa didn't need UN support as we were there at the request of the legal governement of these countries.(TCHAD and MAURITANIA).
And this is not the case with IRAK.
Should I remind the honorable KENNYR, that the Argentinian were not resupplied during the Falkland War and that, on the only five exocet missiles received by the Navy,
was writen : "made in England" as you should know this missile is Anglo/french.
On the other hand the french Navy and Airforce provided ample combat training versus mirages and etendard for the Harrier guys before they went out there.
In the end to compare the ludicrous sinking of a fishing boat to a war involving more then 300 000 soldiers isn't really fair, especially for all the poor inocent victims.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
I think it only fair to point out that the French did cooperate in providing good intelligence on Argentine capabilities and holdings, and acted as opposing forces during training.
And before pointing fingers concerning equipment provided prior to the conflict, consider the fact that the Argentine navy were equipped with T42 DDGs.......
Baron,
Always a grey area when you start talking about the "legitimate" government during a civil war.
Since the Baathist party only represents the 20% Sunni population, would the USA not require a resolution if it's aid were requested by the Kurds and the Shiite leadership in a civil war? Surely an equivalent situation?
And before pointing fingers concerning equipment provided prior to the conflict, consider the fact that the Argentine navy were equipped with T42 DDGs.......
Baron,
Always a grey area when you start talking about the "legitimate" government during a civil war.
Since the Baathist party only represents the 20% Sunni population, would the USA not require a resolution if it's aid were requested by the Kurds and the Shiite leadership in a civil war? Surely an equivalent situation?
In his autobiography, Sir John Nott described the French as having provided the UK with the most valuable support. I was at an event where he said that this was sloppy copy editing - it should have read 'most valuable after the Americans' or somesuch - but nonetheless, the role of the French was clearly of great help, and he was anxious to make this clear.
I like winding up Frenchmen as much as the next Brit -
"Why do the French plant trees down each side of their roads?"
"So the German army can always march in the shade."
"Why 'Honor et Patrie' on the war memorials and not 'Cowardice et Collaboration'....?"
etc. etc.
And I really don't like Paris as a city, and feel most unwelcome when I go there. But apart from the jokes, I like French food, French wine, and the French people (outside Paris) who are a friendly bunch. I even find myself with a sneaking regard for the French military, who know how to enjoy themselves, who play hard, and who have often fought alongside us with grit, balls and skill.
And don't I remember that France helped the UK int community in its elaborate sting operation which prevented the Argies from buying extra Exocets during the Falklands war, and scrupulously avoided delivering further weapons during the war?
If Baron Rouge is a former Armée de l'Air Jag pilot he could have fought in an alarming number of campaigns including (but not restricted to) Chad, Mauretania, Desert Storm, Bosnia, or Kosovo - and all in a Jaguar with all the avionics sophistication of a Hunter FGA9, not like the RAF jets at all.
Baron, mate, most of what you take to be deadly insult is banter, so do cool down.
Did you fly with Escadre de Chasse 7 or Escadre de Chasse 11?
"Why do the French plant trees down each side of their roads?"
"So the German army can always march in the shade."
"Why 'Honor et Patrie' on the war memorials and not 'Cowardice et Collaboration'....?"
etc. etc.
And I really don't like Paris as a city, and feel most unwelcome when I go there. But apart from the jokes, I like French food, French wine, and the French people (outside Paris) who are a friendly bunch. I even find myself with a sneaking regard for the French military, who know how to enjoy themselves, who play hard, and who have often fought alongside us with grit, balls and skill.
And don't I remember that France helped the UK int community in its elaborate sting operation which prevented the Argies from buying extra Exocets during the Falklands war, and scrupulously avoided delivering further weapons during the war?
If Baron Rouge is a former Armée de l'Air Jag pilot he could have fought in an alarming number of campaigns including (but not restricted to) Chad, Mauretania, Desert Storm, Bosnia, or Kosovo - and all in a Jaguar with all the avionics sophistication of a Hunter FGA9, not like the RAF jets at all.
Baron, mate, most of what you take to be deadly insult is banter, so do cool down.
Did you fly with Escadre de Chasse 7 or Escadre de Chasse 11?
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I may burn my tongue here but what the heck ...
Isn't it easy for some individuals to point the finger at someone else in this case the French?
Wasn't it the French blablabla. ? If I reasearch one argument, I realize that half the truth is missing. I am not going to repeat myself entirely here, but France of 1940 cannot to attributed to the French being "cheese eating surrender monkeys" or however Franco-phobics want it to be. People that use this kind of arguments are IMHO true haters and xenophobics with an enormous lack of history and not better off than those bold-shaven no-life blind-hatred contemptuous individuals who I last saw when I was in Dresden chasing "Auslander".
I have NEITHER associated my country with politics, as I have foreign countries. Politicians are the main cause for war, corruption and social unrest. Again, "the French supplied blablabla"-argument is used to generalise. No one with a mature piece of mind would associate corrupt politicians and criminals with an entire country and its countrymen. So, according to some individuals' arguments then ALL Germans must have been anti-semetic Nazis from 1933-1945. Your arguments are banal, full of bias and inconsequent. How do you know that your country isn't as corrupt? If your life consists of blaming someone else, stay out of an international and professional forum and stick to regional flying where you won't EVER leave your country and culture! Pointing your finger to another country etc. is a typical "my d!ck's bigger than yours" kindergarten triteness.
It is pathetic to hear the news in the US describing the French as being anti-American. They may be anti-Bush and I believe that they have the right to be (like Americans and the rest who choses to) but that does not make them anti-American. Call me paranoid, but I call this propaganda.
By pointing out French politics you may want to add all the other dirty politics of other countries including your own.
Who decides what is banter? The accuser or the defender? If you have seen the results of xenophobia then I would be very careful!
I laugh about all those experts that want to comment on French military expertise. It shows your ignorance and hatred. Pub gossip and hear say seem to be the strength of arguments.
A mes amis et ennemis: honi soit qui mal y pense.
Isn't it easy for some individuals to point the finger at someone else in this case the French?
Wasn't it the French blablabla. ? If I reasearch one argument, I realize that half the truth is missing. I am not going to repeat myself entirely here, but France of 1940 cannot to attributed to the French being "cheese eating surrender monkeys" or however Franco-phobics want it to be. People that use this kind of arguments are IMHO true haters and xenophobics with an enormous lack of history and not better off than those bold-shaven no-life blind-hatred contemptuous individuals who I last saw when I was in Dresden chasing "Auslander".
I have NEITHER associated my country with politics, as I have foreign countries. Politicians are the main cause for war, corruption and social unrest. Again, "the French supplied blablabla"-argument is used to generalise. No one with a mature piece of mind would associate corrupt politicians and criminals with an entire country and its countrymen. So, according to some individuals' arguments then ALL Germans must have been anti-semetic Nazis from 1933-1945. Your arguments are banal, full of bias and inconsequent. How do you know that your country isn't as corrupt? If your life consists of blaming someone else, stay out of an international and professional forum and stick to regional flying where you won't EVER leave your country and culture! Pointing your finger to another country etc. is a typical "my d!ck's bigger than yours" kindergarten triteness.
It is pathetic to hear the news in the US describing the French as being anti-American. They may be anti-Bush and I believe that they have the right to be (like Americans and the rest who choses to) but that does not make them anti-American. Call me paranoid, but I call this propaganda.
By pointing out French politics you may want to add all the other dirty politics of other countries including your own.
Who decides what is banter? The accuser or the defender? If you have seen the results of xenophobia then I would be very careful!
I laugh about all those experts that want to comment on French military expertise. It shows your ignorance and hatred. Pub gossip and hear say seem to be the strength of arguments.
A mes amis et ennemis: honi soit qui mal y pense.
Last edited by Squawk7777; 18th Feb 2003 at 04:14.
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Many thanks for all those intelligent answers.
And by the way I was flying with 11th wing, but my best years in the air force were those 3 years I spent at RAF Valley and RAF Chivenor flying Hawks T1A.
And by the way I was flying with 11th wing, but my best years in the air force were those 3 years I spent at RAF Valley and RAF Chivenor flying Hawks T1A.